Hey young people, tell us what you can do!

I don't pine for the old days by any means. I like the modern conveniences. But people in general have changed, and not for the better.

You don't get "please" or "thank you" from the kid working the grocery store checkout, bank teller, etc. At best you get a "no problem"...if you say "thank you" first...for giving them your business.

But it's not just kids, it's people of every age now who have lost all evidence of manners and decorum.
 
And I'm older than Ed, so...



We just bought a new Civic with 6sp manual transmission, both the wife and I love driving it, and we're teaching our daughter to drive it. There still is a decent selection of vehicles available with manual trans, but the list does get shorter every year.
BMW no longer makes manual cars, and the new Toyota Supra, a joint venture between Toyota and BMW, will not be available with a manual.

I drive a Scion FR-S as my daily, which is also known as a Subaru BRZ and now as the Toyota 86. GREAT handling car, but definitely not a screamer in terms of muscle. Don't care. It's manual and a blast to drive. VERY concerned as to what I'll get when this one hits 300K miles or is a pile of rust, but I do know that, in all likelihood, it's already been manufactured, and probably about 10 years ago.
 
But it's not just kids, it's people of every age now who have lost all evidence of manners and decorum.

If you are a parent, look within yourself. I'm proud of my girls. Although in their early teens they went through the "my parents are idiots" stage but it didn't last long. We didn't do "time out" with the girls and in my opinion, are decent, thoughtful, and respectful because of it.
 
BMW no longer makes manual cars, and the new Toyota Supra, a joint venture between Toyota and BMW, will not be available with a manual.

I drive a Scion FR-S as my daily, which is also known as a Subaru BRZ and now as the Toyota 86. GREAT handling car, but definitely not a screamer in terms of muscle. Don't care. It's manual and a blast to drive. VERY concerned as to what I'll get when this one hits 300K miles or is a pile of rust, but I do know that, in all likelihood, it's already been manufactured, and probably about 10 years ago.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g20734564/manual-transmission-cars/

There are more than I thought. And BMW still sells 2. But you are correct in that they are dwindling. And the combination I wanted, convertible and manual is much smaller.
 
You don't get "please" or "thank you" from the kid working the grocery store checkout, bank teller, etc. At best you get a "no problem"...if you say "thank you" first...for giving them your business.

I guess I am old then. When I get a ''no problem'' I have been known to come back with, ''I hope it's not a problem, this is your job''....
 
Yeah, but how many can drive a manual? :D

I have a 2017 Mazda 3 6speed manual. My 19-year-old daughter asked me to teach her in it which I did. Her female college roommate rebuilt the 1966 Mustang by her self and races it at the track. It is also a manual transmission. As is the kids beater pick up truck. Which my daughter help to replace a busted water pump in the parking lot at the College.
But I agree it is somewhat rare and surprising.
 
I am willing to bet money that I know and work with way more young adults than any of you. They're fine. They do what they do. Some wrench on cars and bikes, some play music, some do other things. The world is in safe hands. If you really don't believe me, think about his. The Greatest Generation was described by their parents in the same way you all describe millennials.

I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint" -Hesiod, speaking in the 8th century BC
And, where are the greeks today in terms of modern technology and even art? I'd say he was right in the sense that the rapid growth of his culture was at a zenith when he said that.
 
Where can one purchase a car with a manual transmission?

Kia, for one. Probably others, but it does take some looking around.

The Kia dealership calls or emails me every year this time when they have MT cars that they need to get off the lot. The thing is, if I were to buy one, I'd buy one just like the one I have; and since I already have one just like the one I have, there's not much point in buying one.

Rich
 
CTRL F on a pdf only works if it was published, or you get a REALLY good scan and the OCR does it's thing. Just had to go through a 70 page PDF that was scanned in, and CTRL F didn't work. Well the pop up box worked, but it couldn't find even a single letter.
But at least you know CTRL F is a thing. Incidentally this is a big problem in my industry.. we're moving to automate much of our procedures but a ton of loan data lives in ancient origination docs from the 1990s that have been scanned, copied, etc., dozens of times

BMW M cars
Is this true? I was at a BMW dealership back in 2018 and the M5/M6 they had could not be had in true clutch manual.. only the M3.

Hi! I’m 30 years old so I fit the definition right now. What I do...

I am a PhD student and instructor at the college level. My work is mostly in logistics and analytics.

I play guitar and sing in a rock band.

I ride motorcycles, I am resto-modding an old Corvette, and I (obviously because I am here) fly airplanes. I CAN drive a manual transmission car (and prefer it over an automatic).

I like to stay somewhat physically fit and enjoy running, cycling, weightlifting, hiking, etc.
Our sample size here is also heavily skewed.. the nature of being a pilot is going to cultivate, I think, generally, a group of more intellectually and physically capable individuals. Being a pilot basically de-millenializes you.. at least to some degree
 
I don't pine for the old days by any means. I like the modern conveniences. But people in general have changed, and not for the better.

You don't get "please" or "thank you" from the kid working the grocery store checkout, bank teller, etc. At best you get a "no problem"...if you say "thank you" first...for giving them your business.

But it's not just kids, it's people of every age now who have lost all evidence of manners and decorum.

I consider myself fairly polite, I say please and thank you, I'm nice to most people, but I also hate polite formalities just for the sake of polite formalities. I don't need, nor really want, to be "thanked" for my business. It's a meaningless gesture anyway. I really hate, hate, hate scripted politeness (like the BS you get from customer service reps at larger companies and from call center folks). All I need is the product or service I paid for delivered provided promptly and with a reasonably nice attitude (which doesn't require any sort of formalities). Show me you appreciate my business by simply giving me what I paid for.

When it comes to "please" and "thank you," I'm of the opinion that tone and context are far, far more important than than whether someone uses those supposedly magic words. Someone can very politely ask for something without saying please, and someone can very rudely ask for something WHILE saying please.

I don't understand people who get hung up on formalities (and I'm in the law business, which is full of that).
 
It’s all the same, I’ve met real artists in their trades who were young and old, met folks who suck who were young and old, more how they were raised and their personality then some generational nonsense.

I’ve also found people who didn’t go to government schools often turn out much better.
 
I challenge any of your to go to a new car lot and find a manual. I bought a tiny little compact car and had to order it special to get a manual.
 
I don't need, nor really want, to be "thanked" for my business. It's a meaningless gesture anyway.

Not to me. My first real job was at a small-town grocery store 39 years ago. People knew I was glad to see them. But that was back when I carried their paper sacks to their cars for them. A different era.

There are still some places where you get a "thanks for coming in today". And to me it very much stands out and makes my day just a little better.
 
Well, short list:

- Was a professional Jaguar mechanic, and can turn my own wrenches on pretty much anything I own...

Yup, that would be a way to get some accelerated experience wrenching. Almost as good as being a Fiat mechanic. :D
 
I challenge any of your to go to a new car lot and find a manual. I bought a tiny little compact car and had to order it special to get a manual.

112 in the Atlanta metro area.

This search tops out at $60,000, so you can add some 2019 Corvettes and Porsches of all model years.

I'm surprised there are so many Corolla sedans in this list, that's not a car I would think many people would want in a stick shift.

Oops, that's only for 2020 model new cars. Let's include the 2019s.
 
PS.. most of my avocado toast can't change a tire millennial friends have their own skill sets, most are skilled in their field, be it java, python, etc.

Wow. Computer programming skills. Thank God for those. Don’t forget that those old, useless Boomers are the ones that invented computers. ;)
 
I challenge any of your to go to a new car lot and find a manual. I bought a tiny little compact car and had to order it special to get a manual.
That's why I ripped the crap-o-matic transmission out of my car and installed a 5-speed. It took a lot of measuring to do it right and of course some fabrication, cutting, bending, welding, bolting and threading but I got it right. Much more fun to drive a stick now!
And that's just a tiny subset of my skills. ;)

Oh, vanity, that's another big one. DUH! :D
 
I challenge any of your to go to a new car lot and find a manual. I bought a tiny little compact car and had to order it special to get a manual.
But personally, I don't see how it matters if young people can drive a manual transmission. It doesn't make them more or less useful to society (unless they aspire to be a truck driver). Manuals are less efficient than automatics and take more of your time while driving. Time that could be better spent tex...( uh, never mind).

If you LIKE driving, and you LIKE shifting, then fine; buy yourself a manual, if you can find one. But if not enough people buy them, then nobody will make them. Sort of like your pay people enough and they will do anything theory. If you can't find them, that means people don't want them. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But I do have a problem with cars that don't have spare tires, and with people that wouldn't know what to do with it if they did have them.
 
BMW no longer makes manual cars, and the new Toyota Supra, a joint venture between Toyota and BMW, will not be available with a manual.

I drive a Scion FR-S as my daily, which is also known as a Subaru BRZ and now as the Toyota 86. GREAT handling car, but definitely not a screamer in terms of muscle. Don't care. It's manual and a blast to drive. VERY concerned as to what I'll get when this one hits 300K miles or is a pile of rust, but I do know that, in all likelihood, it's already been manufactured, and probably about 10 years ago.

Rumor has it that Toyo/Suby is re-designing the 86/BRZ, and the next generation will have the new turbo boxer from the Ascent. That should give the car a much needed boost in power and torque. We are loving the 1.5 turbo in the Civic Si, it's a really nice car for the price point.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29304845/next-gen-toyota-86-subaru-brz-confirmed/
 
I challenge any of your to go to a new car lot and find a manual. I bought a tiny little compact car and had to order it special to get a manual.

Back in January I went to the Honda dealer and asked to drive a Civic Si[1] 4-door. He had a black one in stock, we test drove it. We didn't want black, grey, or silver, I told them when they get a white, red, or blue one, call me. A week later he called and said he had a white one, so we bought it.

[1] All Civic Si's are 6sp manual, you can't get an automatic in that model.
 
Wow. Computer programming skills. Thank God for those. Don’t forget that those old, useless Boomers are the ones that invented computers. ;)

Computers were around when the oldest Boomers were in elementary school. IBM's first mainframe came into being in 1952.
 
Wow. Computer programming skills. Thank God for those. Don’t forget that those old, useless Boomers are the ones that invented computers. ;)
Steve Jobs was a whopping 21 years old when he founded Apple.. the first "computer" was actually envisioned by Charles Babbage in something like 1820 when he was only 30 (I think).. so those are squarely in the "young people" generation. The computer was not invented by grouchy people in their 50s ****ed off that today's youth has it easier than they had. I mean, that's the nature of progress, right? I hope my kids have a better life and easier future than me

RE: on manners... I haven't found any difference or correlation in age groups. You have nice people and ****oles everywhere. But if a young person is impolite then that's on their parents

Happy flying!
 
PS, this was my big issue with CAP. The 9 months or so I spent going to meetings it was not really a welcoming crowd.. you'd see many young (or aspiring) pilots in the 18-25 age group come to a few meetings then stop showing up. I never understood why some adults have this desire to pit two age groups against the other
 
Steve Jobs was a millennial? Learn something new every day!
 
I can stutter step like a fiend and play a mean ADC in LoL/HotS, was a decently ranked resto(and brief ele back in MoP( praise rngesus)) shammy in WoW 2s/3s. and a camper extraordinaire in various CoDs TDM and SnD player. 2+kd 2-1 w/l average.
... Need a little more nerd stuff up in here.
 
Wow. Computer programming skills. Thank God for those. Don’t forget that those old, useless Boomers are the ones that invented computers. ;)

I didn't realize Charles Babbage was a boomer. Nor Von Neumann either. :) Both University of Oklahoma grads?
 
Nah, the young ones can do plenty, but often different, stuff. Some of the stereotypes are off, I think. In interviewing, I find the younger applicants are much less IT literate than the mid-career folks - they're good with social media, but much less skilled with basic back-office tools - again, not universal, of course. They aren't quite as well educated, IMHO - plenty smart, but a lot of gaps that are a bit surprising for people with under grad and grad degrees. Critical analysis in particular is weaker than those a generation older. Their writing skills tend to be lagging, as well. More so than you'd expect just because they have less experience.

In technical areas, the younger under grads have great depth, and, I think, demonstrate very good work ethic - once committed, they seem every bit as focused as the last couple generations, and are just as well prepared. They hit the ground running. In the "fuzzier" disciplines, not so much - the Communications and Education majors fall pretty short, compared to their older colleagues. The stereotype of youngsters having a "truncated" work ethic seems more evident in the liberal arts cohort. All this is subjective, filtered through my own biases, of course, but gleaned from a lot of interaction.

More of the previous generations came from reduced circumstances - poorer families, etc. More of them were perhaps the first or second generation to attend college. The "motivation factor" is sometimes higher for a "climber". We are much richer than we were in the past; the middle class is shrinking, but part of the exodus is UP, not just down. Maybe more of the current batch of kids aren't quite as hungry, not quite as willing to subordinate their lives to the job. The explosion in education with the GI Bill after WWII was a huge driver in upward mobility - a HS diploma was a worthy end goal, even into the 60's, but was fading fast by then, replaced by the BS/BA as the ticket to a bigger slice of the dream.

Again, all subjective on my part. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
 
RE: on manners... I haven't found any difference or correlation in age groups. You have nice people and ****oles everywhere. But if a young person is impolite then that's on their parents

My mom raised me to be polite and be able to fit in with the upper crust of European society. I spent enough time around those folks to know I didn't care for most of them and didn't want to be like them.

I was also raised in NYC so I have a low tolerance for BS and have a New Yorker attitude in me that drives my mother nuts.

I can turn on both modes at will.
 
I'm 35 right now. I can do various things.

Right now I'm responsible for design and construction of a $50mln+ gas facility here in Iraq. In my spare time I like to fly my C182 to interesting places (so far about 820 airports, 61 countries, and 6 continents).

I also cook a mean crepe.
 
Where can one purchase a car with a manual transmission?

Answered earlier. The last manual I drove was a rental in France last year. You'd better know how to handle one.

Also... I have many millennial pet peeves, the whole "I can't do anything physical but drop $70/wk of mom and dad's money to go to F45 and I live off avocado toast" drives me nuts.. however the boomers have their fair share of deserved grief as well. I've had near aneurysms watching someone try to save an attachment off an email, schedule a meeting, or understand how "email" works and being what "on line" is. Some millennial may not be able to change a tire, but at least they can competently use a piece of technology, like CTRL F on a PDF, and can manage to not wire their entire retirement to a Nigerian price

PS.. most of my avocado toast can't change a tire millennial friends have their own skill sets, most are skilled in their field, be it java, python, etc.

Who do you think invented the modern PC? It was boomers.

Yup, that would be a way to get some accelerated experience wrenching. Almost as good as being a Fiat mechanic. :D

Better be named Tony! FIAT = Fix It Again, Tony!

I recall working a bunch on my first car - a 1954 Buick Special. Of course, it was about 18 years old when I first got it (that seemed old at the time, my Jeep Wrangler is 20 years old now! ) There's a world of difference between a 20 year old car made in the 1950s and one made in 1999, however.
 
My young brethren are letting me down. I was hoping some young, hotshot doctor was going to come on here and say he could open your chest, remove your heart and replace it with a donor heart. It seems we are doomed unless some of us youngsters start learning how to replace our failing organs. If my family history holds true, I'll be needing a new ticker in a few decades. If people keep sueing doctors for nonsense we won't have enough ticker replacers in the future.
 
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New Yorker attitude
Growing up and living in Boston until my early 20s I find this the norm. When I moved to CA the overt friendliness was odd. I appreciate going back to Boston and having random people shout "shut your door ********!" if it takes me more than 3 seconds to get out of my car after parallel parking

Who do you think invented the modern PC? It was boomers.
My point is that they were young when they invented it, Jobs was 21 when he founded Apple. It also wasn't an edict against all "old people" - my dad is 76 and is obsessed with Linux and tinkering around. But the point holds that for every Avocado toast obsessed loser millennial you've got someone modern technology illiterate.
 
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Growing up and living in Boston until my early 20s I find this the norm. When I moved to CA the overt friendliness was odd. I appreciate going back to Boston and having random people shout "shut your door ********!" if it takes me more than 3 seconds to get out of my car after parallel parking

Yeah, I definitely started off being confused as I ventured outwards and found people who were just generally friendly and nice. I've now grown used to it and New York tires me. My New Yorker attitude can be useful at times, though.
 
I'm apparently not young any more. But I do about 99% of my own house, car, etc stuff. People ask how I know how to do X, either I watched my parents or I read a book.

Growing up in the country means you almost never called anyone when stuff needed fixing, partially because you'd be broke and partially because there wasn't anyone nearby to do that kind of work.

It still amuses me when people get horrified looks when I tell them I do my own electrical and plumbing. I figure if my parents could build a house, I can probably figure out how to run a couple electrical circuits and a couple pipes for a bathroom.
 
I will say that if you have basic knowledge of tools and their uses, YouTube is an absolute treasure trove of repair info. You have to know enough to weed the useful from the merely entertaining (or horrifying) but anything you want to repair is out there.
 
I will say that if you have basic knowledge of tools and their uses, YouTube is an absolute treasure trove of repair info. You have to know enough to weed the useful from the merely entertaining (or horrifying) but anything you want to repair is out there.
Maybe it's just me... but I find the padding that often happens in YouTube to be annoying, I guess you get better monetization over 10 minutes, so for a 30 second repair it's 9:45 of random crap and 30 seconds of content. No, I don't need to know how you broke the phone, how your dogs are doing, etc, just show me how to get the cover off. (Skip, skip, skip, skip, oops too far, skip back)
 
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My 13 year old son found these bed plans, drew up a material list calculating out what length of lumber would provide the least waste-he was spot freeking on too! He did 90% all himself, grandma helped with some priming as he did get bored with that, and I helped with some final assembly but the rest of the measuring, cutting and basic assembly he did himself. The thing is solid as a brick outhouse!

As for pops, Im under that 40 mark for another 4 weeks, I pride myself on there's not much I can't do if I put my mind to it, with the exception of singing good and playing a mucial instrument or keeping a woman happy long term lol. I do all my own car work, with no one really having taught me, my dad can't screw in a light bulb without directions and a spare hour. I can sew, bake some awesome birthday cakes ( made one with an airplane with a spinning prop once), I've taught myself now how to paint with a sprayer to work on my old plane too. I've learned how to squeek the house by on a ramen noodle budget a few times over the years, I can do most any remodeling task as long as it doens't take too many AMUs I could spend on flying, I can garden, I've canned, I have written poetry, I've repaired dishwashers, washers and dryers as to avoid buying new ones.... Keep all sorts of old toys running for the boys, Its all about attitude... In my head I figure with a few execptions if other people are capable of it, there is no reason I can't figure it out... So I just do, sometimes using good old youtube and other times just taking something apart slow and figuring out how it works and go from there.
 

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Well, not all boomers are faster, better, stronger, than millennials, in spite of what they may think.
But then, because I am of that great generation before boomers and milliennials / X'rs, etc. that follow, I'm allowed to sneer at them all.
OTOH, I have managed to fail at any number of endeavors in my lifetime - in fact all of them, but one (still breathing).
However, the wet behind the ears, snot nose crowd might only need a bit more time to finally get up here to the rarefied atmosphere I inhabit. ;)
Enjoy the climb, it's a one shot deal.
 
The thread about Dr. Chien and Dr. Lou got me to thinking. There are a lot of threads on POA about how young people can't do anything any more. They can't change a tire or change their oil or fix almost anything. I have even participated in many of these.

But I know it is not universally true. And I know that young people have skills I never did and never will. So tell us what you can do. It can be a hobby or your job. And for reference I consider anyone around 40 or younger YOUNG.

As an example, I have a young nephew (28) that worked his way through school until he gained his Doctorate of Physical therapy. Even though his parents were moderately wealthy, he didn't depend on them. He started a company called "Cat 5 Carpentry" and he does wonderful work. He continues to do this on his time off form physical therapying. (yeah, I made that word up).

Interesting that you bring up Doctor of Physical therapy. That illustrates part of the problem . We've had PTs for decades who had no more than a 2 year diploma. Now you need a doctorate. Were the old PTs so inadequate and incompetent? Did their patients demand that things would be so much better if their PT had only spent 6 more years in school? I don't think so. When people spend a large portion of their formative years in a classroom, something else has to give. I say that in all seriousness and as someone teaching at a higher education level. Some of my best students have been those who have done things outside of academics, but the system has changed to block those people from getting professional careers.
 
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