Buying my first plane, what should I consider

[Grum.Man]

If your budget is 26k shop for a 12-15k airplane. It doesn't need to be pretty. It needs to be cheap on gas, needs an electrical system for some night flight. I would highly suggest a Grumman Yankee. One of the cheapest most economical options on the market while still being a fun airplane. Annual inspections are probably the most affordable of any certified airplane, operating cost of 6.5 gal/hr of mogas. I think my liability insurance was $250.00 per year. Pretty much sold it for what I bought it for.

 

[MarkH]

I started with a $25k 172 in 2003. It had a mid-time engine and venturies for a vacuum but also had dual nav-com/ ILS and was in good shape. I had a very thorough pre-buy performed, did owner assisted annuals, and averaged $600 annuals in the years I owned the plane.

Obviously it was usable for IFR but I used it to get my PPL, flew, my wife and I all over the country, and put 900 hours on it at a fairly low cost of ownership and full freedom to fly when I wanted to. I got more for it when I sold it than I expected so I feel like it was a great first plane.

Of the choices you listed, and assuming all are in comparable condition, I’d go with the Piper because of less need to rent while you progress in your ratings. The single seat would be my last choice because it can not be flown with an instructor but it’s your choice in the end.

Look at the 80/20 factor. What will you be using the plane for 80% of the time? It may make sense to focus on that and rent for the 20%.

Gary

The 80/20 would require a 2 person plane, but the 70/30 is where the single-seat shines. My (predicted) mission will be 70% solo time building, 10% Dual Received, 10% Hood w/safety pilot and 10% travel with a friend.

If your budget is 26k shop for a 12-15k airplane. It doesn't need to be pretty. It needs to be cheap on gas, needs an electrical system for some night flight. I would highly suggest a Grumman Yankee. One of the cheapest most economical options on the market while still being a fun airplane. Annual inspections are probably the most affordable of any certified airplane, operating cost of 6.5 gal/hr of mogas. I think my liability insurance was $250.00 per year. Pretty much sold it for what I bought it for.

I have been looking for a Yankee, an AA1C or AA1B w/115hp 235 would be my ideal plane, and it was the top of my list based on AOPA's Vref. But, the actual prices I am seeing are, in many cases, double VREF values, which makes financing impossible, and therefore makes me uncomfortable. (Before this becomes a sticking point, I don't need to finance or plan to finance, but this is an important valuation metric to me, as I want the option as a way to get cash if I need it for something unexpected).

Tons of professional flying outside of the airlines. Not sure why you’d only see that option for commercial flying

I want to offer a quippy response, but as I think about it, I have never considered a flying career outside the airlines (and I am not really sure why not).

 

[Grum.Man]

The 80/20 would require a 2 person plane, but the 70/30 is where the single-seat shines. My (predicted) mission will be 70% solo time building, 10% Dual Received, 10% Hood w/safety pilot and 10% travel with a friend.




I have been looking for a Yankee, an AA1C or AA1B w/115hp 235 would be my ideal plane, and it was the top of my list based on AOPA's Vref. But, the actual prices I am seeing are, in many cases, double VREF values, which makes financing impossible, and therefore makes me uncomfortable. (Before this becomes a sticking point, I don't need to finance or plan to finance, but this is an important valuation metric to me, as I want the option as a way to get cash if I need it for something unexpected).



I want to offer a quippy response, but as I think about it, I have never considered a flying career outside the airlines (and I am not really sure why not).

Why so dead set on a B or C? I had an got my license in an original AA1 with no complaints at all.

 

[Weekend Warrior]

I am with the group on the Cherokee.... but I don't see any mention of the Piper Tomahawk, Beech Skipper, Cessna 150 and/or 152.... You can get a lot of Tomahawk and Cessna 150 for the $26K, the 152 and Beech Skipper command a little higher price and with the Skipper you're getting that Beechcraft touch...

I flew some "slightly above minimum" approaches in a Skipper not long ago... pretty stable little airplane when punching through the marine layer but not much more IFR than that.

Not to mention tri-pacers, and colts.

 

[MarkH]

Why so dead set on a B or C? I had an got my license in an original AA1 with no complaints at all.

I'm not, I prefer the higher gross/useable of the B/C but I am open to any other if I can find one for the right price.

Not to mention tri-pacers, and colts.

I like the PA-20/22s, but hangars are very difficult to come by near me, so I am looking for metal planes and budgeting for the extra maintenance that comes with keeping a plane outside in Georgia. I am on lists for hangars but the shortest one is still measured in years.

 

[Caramon13]

I bought a 1965 Cherokee for about 37K, IFR equipped w/ an autopilot. Low engine time.

Put a GTN650 in it, new audio panel, fuel flow and a couple other gadgets and spared no expense maintaining it. Sold it for more than I paid, but definitely did NOT make a profit. But..it was most certainly cheaper then renting for my IFR and commercial (which I used it to earn). Non-complex so had to rent an arrow for the commercial checkride but was close enough that I didn't have any problems with it.

I am looking to buy my first plane, I am a 100-hour (10 hour tailwheel) private pilot looking to build time and obtain IFR, CPL, MEL, CFI/II ratings over the next 2 years. I am hoping, in addition to these ratings to have 500-700 hours by the end of 2021. I know I will have to rent for some ops, but I am trying to minimize my overall costs while maintaining enough availability to ensure that if I want to fly, lack of rental availability does not stop me.

I am trying to decide which approach I should take, and I am considering 4 general planes at various prices, I am in a Mode C veil, so a plane with an alternator needs a transponder.

Which plane would you choose and why?

1) Full trainer - Piper Cherokee 140 $26K, with nav radio and approach gps. Downsides: Expensive ($26K), must maintain GPS database, transponder/ADSB, and burns 7 gph. Also, not tailwheel. Upside, I would only need to rent for tailwheel time and multi time.

2) Tailwheel trainer, Cessna 140 - $22K with nav radio and gyros. Downsides: Need to maintain transponder/ADSB, will need to rent for IFR training, and check rides (no DPEs I know of can fly with me under gross). Will be taking check rides in a plane I don't have most of my experience in. Tailwheel insurance costs. Advantages: Tailwheel time, low fuel use.

3)Non-electric tailwheel trainer, Champ $22K, Downside: will need to rent for all training and for night requirements. Tailwheel insurance costs. Advantages: minimal systems maintenance

4) Single-seat experimental tailwheel $10K. Downsides: Will rent need to rent for training, will need to rent for spontaneous trips with a passenger (possibly canceling those trips), still need transponder/ADSB, likely the hull is uninsurable. Advantages: Lower maintenance costs, lower operating costs, much lower acquisition cost, tailwheel time.

Think about storage. Most cheap taildraggers are rag wings, so you will want a hangar for those to minimize wear and tear in the elements. Hangar costs could be a few hundred a month (at least) which completely blows up your budget.

I'd go with a full trainer, Cherokee 180 (not 140). 140's have tiny engines that will just DRAG in the summer months. The 180 can be much more enjoyable. I got my 1965 180 for about 37k but it came already IFR equipped with an autopilot and low time engine. Take those two out of play and sure it could have been around 30K ish (or less with a higher time engine). If you can go 26K, you can go 30K. And, I would because it opens a lot more options up.

You can get an early model 172 for around 28K, waaaay better than a 140.

Grummans (as others have stated) are also really good low end choices.

Also 7 GPH is on the really low side for fuel burn. Plan for more than that. Unless you get a fuel fuel gauge or some other equipment in the plane to help you out, you won't be flying optimally most times. Fuel prices also fluctuate a lot (especially lately) so even if you are burning less you may be paying more. There are slim pickings for planes less than 26K (I've been looking occasionally too).

Acquisition costs are by far the cheapest..fixed costs, gas and maintenance is definitely where your money goes.

 

[James331]

The 80/20 would require a 2 person plane, but the 70/30 is where the single-seat shines. My (predicted) mission will be 70% solo time building, 10% Dual Received, 10% Hood w/safety pilot and 10% travel with a friend.




I have been looking for a Yankee, an AA1C or AA1B w/115hp 235 would be my ideal plane, and it was the top of my list based on AOPA's Vref. But, the actual prices I am seeing are, in many cases, double VREF values, which makes financing impossible, and therefore makes me uncomfortable. (Before this becomes a sticking point, I don't need to finance or plan to finance, but this is an important valuation metric to me, as I want the option as a way to get cash if I need it for something unexpected).



I want to offer a quippy response, but as I think about it, I have never considered a flying career outside the airlines (and I am not really sure why not).

I’d look into it.

Sometimes following the herd isn’t the best path for everyone.

 

[chemgeek]

If you are interested in Grummans for IFR training I would not recommend an AA-1X. You are talking about 3+45 fuel and room for two smaller people and a toothbrush useful load with full fuel. Put enough IFR avionics in one, and you are pretty short legged with two full size adults. I sold my 1A and bought an AA-5 for my IFR training. The affordable spot for AA-5X aircraft is the Traveler. It has 4+30 endurance, and has ample useful load for two with full fuel. Unfortunately, any real "cheap" Grumman is going to come with crappy avionics. But the good news is they hold their value. I sold my 1A for 20% more than I paid for it 4 years later, although I did make a few improvements. Any of the Grummans are affordable to maintain.

 

[TheFB]

I’m the most debt averse person around but this sounds like a perfect time to take advantage of low rates. $25K won’t get you potentially a great quality IFR setup. $10K down sure can. It sounds like you have a two year need. Get a little better equipped IFR bird and get your hours (I have a Tiger but there are a lot of good options). Sell it after you have all your ratings. Of course, I may not understand your long range goals.

 

[simtech]

Go for the Cherokee, it is a cheap plane to own and very stable for instrument training and flying. Do what you need to do with it then sell it. You're spending money on a club and renting so might as well spend that on your own plane. Dont listen so much to the you can't afford it, sure be ready for a catastrophic event but I'd wager the odds are low on that. Yeah it happens but I wouldn't stress. Get a Cherokee and fly the fool out of it.

 

[The-Flying-Lawyer]

I'd go with a full trainer, Cherokee 180 (not 140). 140's have tiny engines that will just DRAG in the summer months. The 180 can be much more enjoyable. I got my 1965 180 for about 37k but it came already IFR equipped with an autopilot and low time engine. Take those two out of play and sure it could have been around 30K ish (or less with a higher time engine). If you can go 26K, you can go 30K. And, I would because it opens a lot more options up.

Non-owner here, but I would second this comment. I did PPL in a nicer 140 with the 160hp conversion, but at that time the rental operator also had a less updated but very solid 180. I can't really explain it, but once I finished I found myself choosing the 180 every time. It's still my favorite plane I've ever flown from the left seat (even after a couple of archers and arrows from later in the series).

 

[Huckster79]

Can you stay in the club for IFR? I'm biased as hell, I'm in a 12 person club with a very nice 172 with all the instrument crap, at home I fly a 1947 Cessna 140. I have access to two airpanes depending on my mission and the purchase price of both combined was about $25k.... 5 gal an hour max is nice chasing burgers solo... And its a tailwheel....Its just more "fun" than a cherokee or 172 to fly... And if you need to take a DPE up, all you need is just a bit of familiarization with the rented nosedragger, any half competent tailwheel pilot can land a cherokee or 172 without an issue, maybe even with one eye closed! Reverse not necessarily so...

The 140 is doggedly simple, easy to maintain, extremely low recurring ADs especially 1947 on up, I have one- 100 hour wing wire inspection. Now most are rag wing, and if they aren't an A model that came with metal wing, you do want a rag wing for weight primairly and I've not flown a metal winged one but have been told repeatedly they just don't fly as nice (exception being the A model that was designed with metal wing). Find a thinner DPE and go half tanks, at 25 gallon capacity, theres no need for 5 hours of fuel for that... Shes no IFR beast but by god she will make you a great pilot, she won't swap ends on you like a stearman but she will also let you know "I let you get away with that, but you could have done better" when you aren't right on it...