Buying my first plane, what should I consider

MarkH

MarkH

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MarkH
I am looking to buy my first plane, I am a 100-hour (10 hour tailwheel) private pilot looking to build time and obtain IFR, CPL, MEL, CFI/II ratings over the next 2 years. I am hoping, in addition to these ratings to have 500-700 hours by the end of 2021. I know I will have to rent for some ops, but I am trying to minimize my overall costs while maintaining enough availability to ensure that if I want to fly, lack of rental availability does not stop me.

I am trying to decide which approach I should take, and I am considering 4 general planes at various prices, I am in a Mode C veil, so a plane with an alternator needs a transponder.

Which plane would you choose and why?

1) Full trainer - Piper Cherokee 140 $26K, with nav radio and approach gps. Downsides: Expensive ($26K), must maintain GPS database, transponder/ADSB, and burns 7 gph. Also, not tailwheel. Upside, I would only need to rent for tailwheel time and multi time.

2) Tailwheel trainer, Cessna 140 - $22K with nav radio and gyros. Downsides: Need to maintain transponder/ADSB, will need to rent for IFR training, and check rides (no DPEs I know of can fly with me under gross). Will be taking check rides in a plane I don't have most of my experience in. Tailwheel insurance costs. Advantages: Tailwheel time, low fuel use.

3)Non-electric tailwheel trainer, Champ $22K, Downside: will need to rent for all training and for night requirements. Tailwheel insurance costs. Advantages: minimal systems maintenance

4) Single-seat experimental tailwheel $10K. Downsides: Will rent need to rent for training, will need to rent for spontaneous trips with a passenger (possibly canceling those trips), still need transponder/ADSB, likely the hull is uninsurable. Advantages: Lower maintenance costs, lower operating costs, much lower acquisition cost, tailwheel time.
 
You can do all your private in a no electric champ minus the likely instrument and night stuff.

That’s how I did it.
 
Sounds like your budget is a bit under $26k?
 
Might be a tight budget for a well equipped IFR trainer with 700 hours left in the engine.
 
None of the above will satisfy the commercial.
 
alfadog said:
No requirement anymore for complex on CPL.
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If not complex then the aircraft must be TAA. I would find something that will get the OP thru most of the commercial rather than need to rent. Much more cost effective than the tailwheel, which the OP prefers, than extensive renting.
 
murphey said:
If not complex then the aircraft must be TAA. I would find something that will get the OP thru most of the commercial rather than need to rent.
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He can rent for those 10 hours.
 
murphey said:
None of the above will satisfy the commercial.
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Certainly you are not recommending (thinking) that he (can) buy an IFR complex or TAA a/c with his $26k budget?
 
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murphey said:
If not complex then the aircraft must be TAA. I would find something that will get the OP thru most of the commercial rather than need to rent. Much more cost effective than the tailwheel, which the OP prefers, than extensive renting.
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My plan is to log 8 hours in a multi-engine (before going for my CPL, I already have 2 hours TAA) to get my complex endorsement, and to prep for a multi add on after my CPL.
 
I am considering tailwheel aircraft because tailwheel time may open up job opportunities (like banner towing) that I can pursue evening and weekends without quitting my day job.
 
Ignoring the aircraft for a minute. How fast did you do your first 100 hours? This fast?

Adding 600 hours in two years is doable but that’s an ass kicker of a schedule. Especially if you have a full time job.

Let’s just for fun pretend you’re a weekend warrior only. Sat-Sun. You may not be but in some locales maybe your schedule and the instructor or the airplane and the weather only line up two days a week. This gets simpler after the ratings but for the time you need the instructor, scheduling will be a bear unless you have one lined up to do this schedule with you already.

That’s 104 days to fly 600 hours in. Or... six hours a day. And of course, until you have the Private done, buzzing off for six hours by yourself isn’t doable, so you’ll be cramming those hours into the time after that rating.

Anyway. Just saying to take a hard look at that number goal if you have a job, family obligations, etc.

And virtually nobody can fly every weekend, so will you cram in six hours after work on weekdays to make up for the lost weekend day?

I assume you’ve figured this out and that’s why you’re looking to buy and not rent.

Once you hit the CFI you can then take a job at the airport and the hours come faster. But you’ll want to be at an awfully busy school to catch up on that schedule.

Can be done. Just sayin’ look at that goal very closely and try sticking it on your calendar including pre-flight, and post-flight and deciding if all that time building is long XCs going somewhere and what you’ll do when the airplane breaks down 500+ miles from home and you have to be at work tomorrow at 8. Or weather traps you somewhere. How flexible is the boss?

Okay, you get the idea. Go plan it out and have fun.
 
MarkH said:
I am looking to buy my first plane, I am a 100-hour (10 hour tailwheel) private pilot looking to build time and obtain IFR, CPL, MEL, CFI/II ratings over the next 2 years. I am hoping, in addition to these ratings to have 500-700 hours by the end of 2021. I know I will have to rent for some ops, but I am trying to minimize my overall costs while maintaining enough availability to ensure that if I want to fly, lack of rental availability does not stop me.

I am trying to decide which approach I should take, and I am considering 4 general planes at various prices, I am in a Mode C veil, so a plane with an alternator needs a transponder.

Which plane would you choose and why?

1) Full trainer - Piper Cherokee 140 $26K, with nav radio and approach gps. Downsides: Expensive ($26K), must maintain GPS database, transponder/ADSB, and burns 7 gph. Also, not tailwheel. Upside, I would only need to rent for tailwheel time and multi time.

2) Tailwheel trainer, Cessna 140 - $22K with nav radio and gyros. Downsides: Need to maintain transponder/ADSB, will need to rent for IFR training, and check rides (no DPEs I know of can fly with me under gross). Will be taking check rides in a plane I don't have most of my experience in. Tailwheel insurance costs. Advantages: Tailwheel time, low fuel use.

3)Non-electric tailwheel trainer, Champ $22K, Downside: will need to rent for all training and for night requirements. Tailwheel insurance costs. Advantages: minimal systems maintenance

4) Single-seat experimental tailwheel $10K. Downsides: Will rent need to rent for training, will need to rent for spontaneous trips with a passenger (possibly canceling those trips), still need transponder/ADSB, likely the hull is uninsurable. Advantages: Lower maintenance costs, lower operating costs, much lower acquisition cost, tailwheel time.
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Sorry, but if you think $26k is expensive, then I don't think aircraft ownership is for you. Consider a club, or at least finding a partner.
 
‘Build hours & add ratings’? Is the goal down the road a flying job?

If so, just flying around in your own plane isn’t the best quality time. Yeah, I’m sure it can work to get your foot in the door at some place.

I’m kinda partial to the PA-28 lineup.
 
denverpilot said:
Ignoring the aircraft for a minute. How fast did you do your first 100 hours? This fast?

Adding 600 hours in two years is doable but that’s an ass kicker of a schedule. Especially if you have a full time job.

Let’s just for fun pretend you’re a weekend warrior only. Sat-Sun. You may not be but in some locales maybe your schedule and the instructor or the airplane and the weather only line up two days a week. This gets simpler after the ratings but for the time you need the instructor, scheduling will be a bear unless you have one lined up to do this schedule with you already.

That’s 104 days to fly 600 hours in. Or... six hours a day. And of course, until you have the Private done, buzzing off for six hours by yourself isn’t doable, so you’ll be cramming those hours into the time after that rating.

Anyway. Just saying to take a hard look at that number goal if you have a job, family obligations, etc.

And virtually nobody can fly every weekend, so will you cram in six hours after work on weekdays to make up for the lost weekend day?

I assume you’ve figured this out and that’s why you’re looking to buy and not rent.

Once you hit the CFI you can then take a job at the airport and the hours come faster. But you’ll want to be at an awfully busy school to catch up on that schedule.

Can be done. Just sayin’ look at that goal very closely and try sticking it on your calendar including pre-flight, and post-flight and deciding if all that time building is long XCs going somewhere and what you’ll do when the airplane breaks down 500+ miles from home and you have to be at work tomorrow at 8. Or weather traps you somewhere. How flexible is the boss?

Okay, you get the idea. Go plan it out and have fun.
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Don't forget, there is shift work. My day job for 32 years was 3pm-11pm. Many firefighters, EMTs, nurses and the like, work odd shifts... Some only 2-3days a week.

Working 2nd shift gave me availability that independent CFIs loved... Kept em busier than they were without me.
 
JCranford said:
If $26K is expensive, you might want to reconsider this whole 'flying thing'.
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$26K is expensive compared to $22K or $10K. Simple math: 26k>22k>10K.

denverpilot said:
Ignoring the aircraft for a minute. How fast did you do your first 100 hours? This fast?

Adding 600 hours in two years is doable but that’s an ass kicker of a schedule. Especially if you have a full time job.

Let’s just for fun pretend you’re a weekend warrior only. Sat-Sun. You may not be but in some locales maybe your schedule and the instructor or the airplane and the weather only line up two days a week. This gets simpler after the ratings but for the time you need the instructor, scheduling will be a bear unless you have one lined up to do this schedule with you already.

That’s 104 days to fly 600 hours in. Or... six hours a day. And of course, until you have the Private done, buzzing off for six hours by yourself isn’t doable, so you’ll be cramming those hours into the time after that rating.

Anyway. Just saying to take a hard look at that number goal if you have a job, family obligations, etc.

And virtually nobody can fly every weekend, so will you cram in six hours after work on weekdays to make up for the lost weekend day?

I assume you’ve figured this out and that’s why you’re looking to buy and not rent.

Once you hit the CFI you can then take a job at the airport and the hours come faster. But you’ll want to be at an awfully busy school to catch up on that schedule.

Can be done. Just sayin’ look at that goal very closely and try sticking it on your calendar including pre-flight, and post-flight and deciding if all that time building is long XCs going somewhere and what you’ll do when the airplane breaks down 500+ miles from home and you have to be at work tomorrow at 8. Or weather traps you somewhere. How flexible is the boss?

Okay, you get the idea. Go plan it out and have fun.
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I have logged 100 hours in the last year while driving an hour each way to the airport to rent a plane and trying to book instruction around busy schedules. Buying will allow me to have a plane closer to my home and work. In addition, I will have the option to take trips multi-day that I cannot effectively book a plane for with my club. If I try to log 350 hours in the next year, and only log 150 hours, I am still 150 hours closer to my goal.

This is mostly about flying on weekdays when I leave work at 5 and then drive 1 hour+ to get to the plane (located at an unlit field, so I have to land by nightfall) my weekday flying get very limited, especially as the sun sets earlier.

Weekend Warrior said:
Sorry, but if you think $26k is expensive, then I don't think aircraft ownership is for you. Consider a club, or at least finding a partner.
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I am fully aware I am too poor to do this, I should not even look at a plane if I am not a billionaire. You are right, I should give up on life and go live in the gutter.
 
Weekend Warrior said:
Sorry, but if you think $26k is expensive, then I don't think aircraft ownership is for you. Consider a club, or at least finding a partner.
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A club or rental is the least expensive way to go. Any airplane you buy will cost you fixed cost over the operation cost of the plane. If you have a major cost engine or radio or airframe it's on you can you afford a 5K hit to fix it.
 
brien23 said:
A club or rental is the least expensive way to go. Any airplane you buy will cost you fixed cost over the operation cost of the plane. If you have a major cost engine or radio or airframe it's on you can you afford a 5K hit to fix it.
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Agreed. And $5k is for a simple fix. $15k or more for a bigger problem.
 
MarkH said:
$26K is expensive compared to $22K or $10K. Simple math: 26k>22k>10K...

...I am fully aware I am too poor to do this, I should not even look at a plane if I am not a billionaire. You are right, I should give up on life and go live in the gutter.
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There's a lot of aircraft ownership experience on this forum. The cautions aren't intended to discourage you. They are meant to be a reality check. Don't forget, you are the one who asked "...what should I consider?"

The bottom line is the "price of entry" (cost of buying the plane) is often the cheapest and easiest part of ownership. Once that is out of the way there's the relentless ongoing cost of annuals, maintenance parts and labor, insurance, tie-down/hangar, fuel & oil, consumables like brakes and tires, avionics repairs, State taxes in some jurisdictions, and on it goes.

There's a LOT of airplanes sitting at airports rotting away because the owners cannot afford the money and the time to keep them airworthy. You really don't want to join that cohort. Your inclinations to look for a simple, comparatively inexpensive but fun to fly airplane are on the right track. But you might want to consider putting together a pro-forma budget that goes beyond the purchase price before you write that check. You might also consider finding another person at a similar stage of training, with similar aspirations, as a partner to share the fixed costs.

I bought my first plane, a Cherokee 160, for $24,000. It had a sun-bleached orange interior and a gawd awful paint job. But it had only 2000 hrs TT and 600 hours on the overhauled engine. I flew it ~300 hours in three years, including two 2400 nm round trips to Oshkosh. But I replaced the flakey nav/com, installed a basic PS Engineering audio panel with music input, put in a used Mode C transponder so I could fly in controlled airspace, and had the prop overhauled - all of which cost some money.
 
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brien23 said:
A club or rental is the least expensive way to go. Any airplane you buy will cost you fixed cost over the operation cost of the plane. If you have a major cost engine or radio or airframe it's on you can you afford a 5K hit to fix it.
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I have budgeted for that.
 
MarkH said:
... I should not even look at a plane if I am not a billionaire...
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My mechanic always says, "Owning a plane can make you a millionaire: if you bought the plane as a billionaire, the plane will make you a millionaire."
 
I was in the same situation about a year ago. Except I got tired of renting at about 12 hours of flight time. Have you looked at financing? I bought my 172 for $5,000 down and a hair over $200/month in payments. Single SL30 Nav/Com, and a 450 hour engine. Since then I've logged about 200 hours in the last year. My ownership costs have certainly been less than the $20,000 it would have cost me to rent for those hours. My tie down spot at $25/month sure beats $250-$300 for a hangar, even if it means sweating it out in the Georgia heat during preflight. For what you are doing, my only advice is to buy one with a current IFR check. I had to get a couple instruments overhauled and chase down some static leaks that took a lot of time. Having an IFR GPS is a plus too. Other than that maintenance has been fairly minor, the biggest thing was getting the mags overhauled, which was about a $1,000 job. If it were me, I would look at the Cherokee or a C150/C172. Resale value is pretty strong, and the huge increase in pilot training means that those types will likely stay high enough that resale will be at least even, if not a bit profitable for me. If you can fit in a 150 (look at the useful load with you and a CFI), operating costs will be marginally lower than mine. 1 GPH reduction in fuel burn saves you about $1,200 over those 300 hours, plus some small savings on oil changes and annual costs. Get familiar with what preventative maintenance is allowed, and do it yourself whenever possible. Most importantly, get a good pre-buy done. Mine caught a gasket that needed replacement on the accelerator pump that replacing would have cost me more than the pre-buy.
 
I'll throw out my usual caution: it is rarely cheaper to own than to rent. Owning is primarily about convenience, not cost savings. Owners are on the hook for capital costs (purchase), and for any and all major repairs. In addition to operational and storage costs. There are certainly huge advantages for ownership: availability, reliability, and knowledge of standard of care. But it comes at a cost. Ownership is great, but go in with your eyes wide open. Initial purchase is just the START of your financial commitment to ownership. If you are not financially prepared for ownership, it could be a rough ride.

When I was a young professional, I spent a goodly (ungodly, really) portion of my savings on my first plane, an AA-1A. And I was committed to spend up to another 100% of its value to keep it in good repair over the next few years, as needed. (And much of that capital WAS needed to fix and upgrade things.) I sold that plane for 20% more than I paid for it, but I put WAY more investment into it than the 20% I recovered. But it was worth it to me to have an airplane I could fly anytime I wanted, to anywhere, and not worry about parking it somewhere for a week. Renting is a pain if you want to travel in a plane.

As others have mentioned, a good alternative to owning is joining or forming a flying club. My instrument instructor does that, and he loves the arrangement.
 
sourdough44 said:
‘Build hours & add ratings’? Is the goal down the road a flying job?

If so, just flying around in your own plane isn’t the best quality time. Yeah, I’m sure it can work to get your foot in the door at some place.
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At least three regular posters here did exactly that and are flying commercially now.

Fog a mirror and have 1000 hours*, you can be hired somewhere. May not be near home and the pay might suck, or not... but definitely hired.

Most places do say to show up with your instrument skills sharp. Bombing around VFR is fine in the logbook but better be able to nail approaches when you get there.

* I used 1000 because that’s virtually a guarantee. You’ll get hired somewhere long before that if you want to. I also left out the details of having a bit of multi time for some of the jobs, etc. 50 is usually all it takes for that.
 
You live in Atlanta, where there's no doubt an abundance of flying club options.

Go find a club to join.
 
MarkH said:
I am considering tailwheel aircraft because tailwheel time may open up job opportunities (like banner towing) that I can pursue evening and weekends without quitting my day job.
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It will, but why are you paying to build hours after your 250CPL? That’s when you should get a job and learn how to work the line while getting paid to add to your logbook

Also tailwheel will make you a better pilot, the guys who can took from zero to 250 in tailwheel were notably better sticks and transitions to trikes were a non event.

brien23 said:
A club or rental is the least expensive way to go. Any airplane you buy will cost you fixed cost over the operation cost of the plane. If you have a major cost engine or radio or airframe it's on you can you afford a 5K hit to fix it.
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No.

If you’re building a good chunk of time and have some common sense, buying a sub 30k plane with a proper prebuy is the way to go, that’s what I did for my CPL, came out pretty good, would have been really really good had I sold the plane right after my CPL and did that math. Ended up keeping it for a good while, actually sold it for a little more than I bought it for, very little expensive mx issues, replaced a jug and the exhaust (which I knew was coming and adjusted my price for).
 
CharlieD3 said:
Don't forget, there is shift work. My day job for 32 years was 3pm-11pm. Many firefighters, EMTs, nurses and the like, work odd shifts... Some only 2-3days a week.

Working 2nd shift gave me availability that independent CFIs loved... Kept em busier than they were without me.
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Yeah. The point was to line up the CFI schedule and yours. A CFI dedicating a big chunk of time needs to be in on the aggressive plan.

I’m still forever indebted to @jesse for saying I should get my butt to Nebraska and do my instrument rating long ago, “as long as you don’t mind flying mostly at night”. He had the day job, as did I, but I could take the time off to go visit. We got done most nights around 1AM with the occasional 3AM tossed in for good measure.

There’s also the student who SAYS they’re going to go at a rapid pace and then runs out of money or time off. LOL. Was talking to another CFI about that (amongst other things) last night. Client traveled to him, got one rating done, realizes how fast they’re burning cash, and went home.

Was booked as a “want all ratings from zero to hero” client. It happens.
 
MarkH said:
I am fully aware I am too poor to do this, I should not even look at a plane if I am not a billionaire. You are right, I should give up on life and go live in the gutter.
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If you’re going to hang out here, you certainly need to grow a thicker skin. Replies such as these aren’t called for.

The acquisition cost is absolutely nothing compared to maintenance down-the-road.
 
Weekend Warrior said:
Sorry, but if you think $26k is expensive, then I don't think aircraft ownership is for you. Consider a club, or at least finding a partner.
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JCranford said:
If $26K is expensive, you might want to reconsider this whole 'flying thing'.
Click to expand...

MarkH said:
$26K is expensive compared to $22K or $10K. Simple math: 26k>22k>10K......
I am fully aware I am too poor to do this, I should not even look at a plane if I am not a billionaire. You are right, I should give up on life and go live in the gutter.
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Rgbeard said:
If you’re going to hang out here, you certainly need to grow a thicker skin. Replies such as these aren’t called for.

The acquisition cost is absolutely nothing compared to maintenance down-the-road.
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What wasn't called for were the continued assertions that if you don't have wads of money you should forget about joining this exclusive club of rich guys who like to burn money, i.e., being a pilot. I know I've ground that axe on several occasions, but it's one worth grinding. Having said that, I did a double take when the OP described a $26K Cherokee as "expensive," too, but in comparison to his other examples it IS relatively more expensive, I guess. Some folks have more than enough money to fly BECAUSE they carefully budget and have done so over their entire lives. There's no reason to throw that careful budgeting attitude out the window when you begin flying.

Rgbeard is of course correct re/ the relationship between acquisition cost vs ongoing usage, maintenance, and ownership costs, and it's a point definitely worth stating; being able to afford to buy a plane does not necessarily mean you can afford to own, use, and maintain a plane, and it's something to consider.

The idea that some folks need to grow a thicker skin is also very valid in society these days. However, does that mean we can't try to be nicer to each other and less obnoxious? That being kind is somehow a weakness? That putting others down to make yourself look better or more powerful in some way, i.e.,"you don't have enough money to be a pilot like ME!!" is a sign of personal strength? Gimme a break. I've gotten some good advice and learned stuff from some very abrasive personalities here, but it was a lot harder to give those opinions and thoughts merit because they came across poorly. Likewise, I've been misled, less frequently but it's happened, by some very pleasant kind folks here who gave some not-so-good advice, however well-intended. It'd be best if we were all just good-natured, wouldn't it? Having a thick skin is a positive attribute. Being the reason a thick skin is required isn't.
 
To answer the original question... I'd go with the Cherokee (and have in real life, except I had to equip mine w/ ADSB out, and am currently deciding when/what panel GPS to add), assuming you have the budget to maintain it. The 24-month transponder and pitot-static checks are around $400, and your GPS data subscription might come in around there, too. Your yearly annual inspection, hangar rent, maintenance, and gas will dwarf those figures regardless of what airplane you choose, and you'll be able to use the Cherokee for almost every aspect of your training. The fact that it already has an LPV-capable GPS is a HUGE plus at that price. I wouldn't use 7gph for flight planning, though. I use 9gph for planning and am always pleasantly surprised... which is much better than 7gph and being negatively surprised.
 
Rgbeard said:
If you’re going to hang out here, you certainly need to grow a thicker skin. Replies such as these aren’t called for.

The acquisition cost is absolutely nothing compared to maintenance down-the-road.
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That was intended as a joking way to avoid having to explain that this is not an attempt to save money, and all of the options involve me keeping a significant emergency fund. I will be more careful with my self deprecating jokes in the future in an attempt to avoid offending the more sensitive individuals on this board. My apologies to @Rgbeard I will try to let this be a safe space for you and others.
 
James331 said:
It will, but why are you paying to build hours after your 250CPL? That’s when you should get a job and learn how to work the line while getting paid to add to your logbook

Also tailwheel will make you a better pilot, the guys who can took from zero to 250 in tailwheel were notably better sticks and transitions to trikes were a non event.



No.

If you’re building a good chunk of time and have some common sense, buying a sub 30k plane with a proper prebuy is the way to go, that’s what I did for my CPL, came out pretty good, would have been really really good had I sold the plane right after my CPL and did that math. Ended up keeping it for a good while, actually sold it for a little more than I bought it for, very little expensive mx issues, replaced a jug and the exhaust (which I knew was coming and adjusted my price for).
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I am in a bit of an odd spot. I want to fly, and I would like the option of doing it commercially, but I don't know if I am going to go to the airlines. If I went to the regionals today, I would make captain before I returned to my current salary, and any full-time LTP job would probably cost me more in lost income than keeping my current job and flying 400+ hours per year out of pocket. After 2 years I intend to either sprint to the airlines or buy Bonanza, depending on lifestyle factors.
 
Cherokee wins hands down. You'll want an IFR GPS for training, especially since there aren't that many NDB approaches anymore. You do do all your training and lots of trips with friends and family as well. If you can't afford a aCherokee you can't afford an airplane. Only about 1200 parts in the whole thing, not that much to break.
 
MarkH said:
I am in a bit of an odd spot. I want to fly, and I would like the option of doing it commercially, but I don't know if I am going to go to the airlines. If I went to the regionals today, I would make captain before I returned to my current salary, and any full-time LTP job would probably cost me more in lost income than keeping my current job and flying 400+ hours per year out of pocket. After 2 years I intend to either sprint to the airlines or buy Bonanza, depending on lifestyle factors.
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Tons of professional flying outside of the airlines. Not sure why you’d only see that option for commercial flying
 
I am with the group on the Cherokee.... but I don't see any mention of the Piper Tomahawk, Beech Skipper, Cessna 150 and/or 152.... You can get a lot of Tomahawk and Cessna 150 for the $26K, the 152 and Beech Skipper command a little higher price and with the Skipper you're getting that Beechcraft touch...

I flew some "slightly above minimum" approaches in a Skipper not long ago... pretty stable little airplane when punching through the marine layer but not much more IFR than that.
 
I started with a $25k 172 in 2003. It had a mid-time engine and venturies for a vacuum but also had dual nav-com/ ILS and was in good shape. I had a very thorough pre-buy performed, did owner assisted annuals, and averaged $600 annuals in the years I owned the plane.

Obviously it was usable for IFR but I used it to get my PPL, flew, my wife and I all over the country, and put 900 hours on it at a fairly low cost of ownership and full freedom to fly when I wanted to. I got more for it when I sold it than I expected so I feel like it was a great first plane.

Of the choices you listed, and assuming all are in comparable condition, I’d go with the Piper because of less need to rent while you progress in your ratings. The single seat would be my last choice because it can not be flown with an instructor but it’s your choice in the end.

Look at the 80/20 factor. What will you be using the plane for 80% of the time? It may make sense to focus on that and rent for the 20%.

Gary
 
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