ICAO Flight Plan transition...really this time

chemgeek

chemgeek

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chemgeek
So, FAA notice NOTC9616 says we are really, really, really this time going to transition to ICAO (international) flight plans on August 27, 2019. Simplified instructions for filing are found here.

The real head-scratcher is trying to figure out the correct ICAO equipment codes for your aircraft. A reasonably good guide is found here.

As an example, here is the best I can figure out for my aircraft, with VOR/ILS/GNS-430W/NGT-9000, i.e. standard VOR/ILS/COM equipment, WAAS IFR GPS, and 1090ES in/out:

Block 10: SGBRZ/EB2
S is standard equipment, B is LPV, G is IFR GPS, R is a way to indicate WAAS capability, Z indicates additional equipment information; If R is used, a PBN block is required in block 18; Z required if there is NAV entry in block 18​
Block 18: PBN/B2C2D2O2S1 NAV/SBAS SUR/260B CODE/Axxxxx
PBN entry specifies WAAS capability, NAV indicates LPV capability, SUR specifies 1090ES in this case (SUR/282B is UAT), CODE is the hexadecimal ADS-B identifier you can find on your aircraft registry page. You can optionally put additional information in the NAV block to indicate whether or not you wish to fly RNAV departure or arrival procedures, or fly T-routes, although the PBN block assumes you can do those things already.​

Supposedly, these codes will (eventually?) help ATC figure out what your capability is in order to help you get better routings. But it's a real alphabet soup, and blocks 10 and 18 seem a bit redundant at times (LPV capability is specified or implied by B, R, PBN/xxxx, and NAV/SBAS codes?) I may still not have it exactly right for my plane, but maybe close enough for government work. (Hey, it's the FAA!)

Cheers.
 
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It's been reported on the red board that the online ICAO flight plan form doesn't accept non-ICAO airport IDs (i.e., ones with numbers in the identifier). :rolleyes1:
 
Not like no ago I had a controller ask what my suffix was. I filed IACO and he didn’t understand the new codes. I’m guessing everyone is trained now.
 
Initial Fix said:
Not like no ago I had a controller ask what my suffix was. I filed IACO and he didn’t understand the new codes. I’m guessing everyone is trained now.
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I think we have one or two members who are currently working as controllers. Hopefully they will chime in on this.
 
Palmpilot said:
It's been reported on the red board that the online ICAO flight plan form doesn't accept non-ICAO airport IDs (i.e., ones with numbers in the identifier). :rolleyes1:
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Yes, for a whole lot of airports, you have to enter ZZZZ in the departure or destination box, the put the real identifier in the remarks box in the format DEP/XXX or DEST/XXX. You would think after years they would have figured this out.
Jon
 
Palmpilot said:
It's been reported on the red board that the online ICAO flight plan form doesn't accept non-ICAO airport IDs (i.e., ones with numbers in the identifier). :rolleyes1:
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This information has been in AIM 5-1-9 for a long time....no need to rely on the red board for information.

Bob
 
The airspeed box has selections to be used for knots (n) or kilometers (k). What ATC system in the world is using kilometers?
 
chemgeek said:
So, FAA notice NOTC9616 says we are really, really, really this time going to transition to ICAO (international) flight plans on August 27, 2019. Simplified instructions for filing are found here.

The real head-scratcher is trying to figure out the correct ICAO equipment codes for your aircraft. A reasonably good guide is found here.

As an example, here is the best I can figure out for my aircraft, with VOR/ILS/GNS-430W/NGT-9000, i.e. standard VOR/ILS/COM equipment, WAAS IFR GPS, and 1090ES in/out:

Block 10: SGBRZ/EB2
S is standard equipment, B is LPV, G is IFR GPS, R is a way to indicate WAAS capability, Z indicates additional equipment information; If R is used, a PBN block is required in block 18; Z required if there is NAV entry in block 18​
Block 18: PBN/B2C2D2O2S1 NAV/SBAS SUR/260B CODE/Axxxxx
PBN entry specifies WAAS capability, NAV indicates LPV capability, SUR specifies 1090ES in this case (SUR/282B is UAT), CODE is the hexadecimal ADS-B identifier you can find on your aircraft registry page. You can optionally put additional information in the NAV block to indicate whether or not you wish to fly RNAV departure or arrival procedures, or fly T-routes, although the PBN block assumes you can do those things already.​

Supposedly, these codes will (eventually?) help ATC figure out what your capability is in order to help you get better routings. But it's a real alphabet soup, and blocks 10 and 18 seem a bit redundant at times (LPV capability is specified or implied by B, R, PBN/xxxx, and NAV/SBAS codes?) I may still not have it exactly right for my plane, but maybe close enough for government work. (Hey, it's the FAA!)

Cheers.
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The Z in 10a and the NAV/SBAS in 18 serve no useful purpose. They do not affect routes, procedures or flight plans. It does not hurt anything, but is useless. The same with PBN S1. With or without S1, there is no effect on flight plans or the ability to request and fly an RNAV approach. O2 is for RNP 2 and many navigators are approved for this, but it is not used in the US with the exception on RNAV SID/STAR that require RNP 1 when RF legs are used (very very few in US). A few navigator installations are approved for RF legs, example, my GTN750 with G500TXi. The GNS/W series is not approved. I would code in 10a SBGR and 10b EB2, in 18 I would code PBN/B2C2D2 SUR/260B CODE/Axxxxx.
 
Clip4 said:
The airspeed box has selections to be used for knots (n) or kilometers (k). What ATC system in the world is using kilometers?
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You can also file altitude in tens of meters with "M" instead of feet (A) flight level (F), or standard metric flight level in tens of meters (S). And you can enter Mach numbers for airspeed, too, with "M". I wonder if anyone would find it humorous if I filed for Mach 0.17. Not sure of the correct format, though. Whoever designed the flight plan form wasn't too concerned with readability or ease of use. Fortunately, the online services work much of this out for you, except for the arcane equipment codes.
 
John Collins said:
The Z in 10a and the NAV/SBAS in 18 serve no useful purpose. They do not affect routes, procedures or flight plans. It does not hurt anything, but is useless. The same with PBN S1. With or without S1, there is no effect on flight plans or the ability to request and fly an RNAV approach. O2 is for RNP 2 and many navigators are approved for this, but it is not used in the US with the exception on RNAV SID/STAR that require RNP 1 when RF legs are used (very very few in US). A few navigator installations are approved for RF legs, example, my GTN750 with G500TXi. The GNS/W series is not approved. I would code in 10a SBGR and 10b EB2, in 18 I would code PBN/B2C2D2 SUR/260B CODE/Axxxxx.
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Thanks. It would be nice if all the conflicting information about the correct equipment codes for commonly installed equipment in domestic aircraft were compiled somewhere, like by the FAA or AOPA. Most of the official resources direct pilots to "consult with their manufacturer" but that information may or may not be available, especially for legacy units. It's not like there aren't a ton of folks with GNS-430W units and 1090ES transponders, etc.
 
chemgeek said:
Thanks. It would be nice if all the conflicting information about the correct equipment codes for commonly installed equipment in domestic aircraft were compiled somewhere, like by the FAA or AOPA. Most of the official resources direct pilots to "consult with their manufacturer" but that information may or may not be available, especially for legacy units. It's not like there aren't a ton of folks with GNS-430W units and 1090ES transponders, etc.
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Not a 100% solution to the problem you pose, but if you go to www.1800wxbrief.com and register (free), then select the Flight Planning and Briefing tab and select Flight plan from the menu you will see an ICAO flight plan form with little magnifying glasses adjacent to data entry slots. Click on a magnifying glass and you get a drop-down menu of a whole bunch of possibilities...select the one that fits your equipment. I have also found it useful to call 1800wxbrief to talk to a briefer and ask him/her what goes into a specific data entry box. Up until now, they have been very helpful....but with the increased usage beginning 8/27 they may get overwhelmed with requests.

Bob
 
bobmrg said:
Not a 100% solution to the problem you pose, but if you go to www.1800wxbrief.com and register (free), then select the Flight Planning and Briefing tab and select Flight plan from the menu you will see an ICAO flight plan form with little magnifying glasses adjacent to data entry slots. Click on a magnifying glass and you get a drop-down menu of a whole bunch of possibilities...select the one that fits your equipment. I have also found it useful to call 1800wxbrief to talk to a briefer and ask him/her what goes into a specific data entry box. Up until now, they have been very helpful....but with the increased usage beginning 8/27 they may get overwhelmed with requests.

Bob
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The Leidos site popup menus are pretty good (and that's where I usually file) but don't explain everything and don't really help much with selecting proper PBN codes, which is probably the most confusing part. And I'll bet a shiny nickel not many pilots, including IFR rated ones, know anything about the SUR and CODE tags. (I didn't until I did some digging.) The FAA chart I linked is really helpful, but doesn't completely explain everything. This is a good opportunity for AOPA or the FAA or some of the specialty rags to help the community.

My guess is it probably won't matter too much right away if you don't get it completely right for actual routing and ATC interaction, but it would be nice to know how to do it properly, since we're expected to do it on August 27.
 
Clip4 said:
The airspeed box has selections to be used for knots (n) or kilometers (k). What ATC system in the world is using kilometers?
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I think they use nautical kilometers in the EU-- 1 NK= 1.15 k. ;)
 
This will work for those currently using the FAA/Domestic Form:

If you file /G; Set S, G in the ICAO equipment and C in the ICAO Surveillance.
If you file /U; Set S in the ICAO equipment and C in the ICAO Surveillance.
If you file /A; Set S, D in the ICAO equipment and C in the ICAO Surveillance.

You can do more, but that is all you were providing using the FAA/Domestic equipment code

You can add B if you have a WAAS GPS to indicate you can fly LPV, but no one cares
You can add D if you have a real DME
You can add F if you have an ADF

For coding ICAO Surveillance, if you have a mode S transponder that does ADS-B Out, you can add B1 (ADS-B Out Only) or B2 (ADS-B Out with IN) to the existing C transponder code, so C,B1 is for a KT74, Avidyne, GTX330ES, GTX335, Status ESG and C, B2 is for a GTX345, L3 Lynx 9000, ... If you have a UAT based ADS-B out, you can code C, U1 or C, U2. The latter is if your installed system also has ADS-B In. So for GDL88/84 use C, U2; GDL82 use C, U1.

C is not the precise code for the transponder, but ATC could care less as all they want to know is if your transponder will respond to Mode C altitude.

You can add R to the basic equipment if you set any of the PBN codes. Pretty much all GA GPS will be approved for B2(RNAV 5 -basic point to point) and C2 (RNAV 2 - fly T routes or GPS airways). D2 is RNAV 1 and allows using RNAV SID/STAR in routes. All WAAS GPS can do D2. Legacy non WAAS G1000 and GNS430 can also do D2. Most older legacy GPS can't do PBN D2 or RNAV 1, example GPS155/300XL/KLN90B/KLN98B/KLN94.

If you wish you can set the SUR value to 260B if you have an ADS-B system that uses a transponder. If you use UAT for ADS-B Out, such as a GDL88/84/82 or Skybeacon set SUR to 282B.

If you set CODE, it is the 6 character hex value found in the FAA registry. For N numbers it will start with an Ahhhhh where h can be a hex digit 0-9, A-F.

The above is more than most pilots need to know and only the first three equipment specifications will handle 95% of all GA pilots, the rest is nice to have, but for the time being is not essential.

The basic rule is if you don't know what a code means, you don't have it.
 
John Collins said:
This will work for those currently using the FAA/Domestic Form:

If you file /G; Set S, G in the ICAO equipment and C in the ICAO Surveillance.
If you file /U; Set S in the ICAO equipment and C in the ICAO Surveillance.
If you file /A; Set S, D in the ICAO equipment and C in the ICAO Surveillance.

You can do more, but that is all you were providing using the FAA/Domestic equipment code

You can add B if you have a WAAS GPS to indicate you can fly LPV, but no one cares
You can add D if you have a real DME
You can add F if you have an ADF

For coding ICAO Surveillance, if you have a mode S transponder that does ADS-B Out, you can add B1 (ADS-B Out Only) or B2 (ADS-B Out with IN) to the existing C transponder code, so C,B1 is for a KT74, Avidyne, GTX330ES, GTX335, Status ESG and C, B2 is for a GTX345, L3 Lynx 9000, ... If you have a UAT based ADS-B out, you can code C, U1 or C, U2. The latter is if your installed system also has ADS-B In. So for GDL88/84 use C, U2; GDL82 use C, U1.

C is not the precise code for the transponder, but ATC could care less as all they want to know is if your transponder will respond to Mode C altitude.

You can add R to the basic equipment if you set any of the PBN codes. Pretty much all GA GPS will be approved for B2(RNAV 5 -basic point to point) and C2 (RNAV 2 - fly T routes or GPS airways). D2 is RNAV 1 and allows using RNAV SID/STAR in routes. All WAAS GPS can do D2. Legacy non WAAS G1000 and GNS430 can also do D2. Most older legacy GPS can't do PBN D2 or RNAV 1, example GPS155/300XL/KLN90B/KLN98B/KLN94.

If you wish you can set the SUR value to 260B if you have an ADS-B system that uses a transponder. If you use UAT for ADS-B Out, such as a GDL88/84/82 or Skybeacon set SUR to 282B.

If you set CODE, it is the 6 character hex value found in the FAA registry. For N numbers it will start with an Ahhhhh where h can be a hex digit 0-9, A-F.

The above is more than most pilots need to know and only the first three equipment specifications will handle 95% of all GA pilots, the rest is nice to have, but for the time being is not essential.

The basic rule is if you don't know what a code means, you don't have it.
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I’m both saving this post as well as wondering what jackass FAA engineer thought this made any damn sense and didn’t publish a secret decoder ring when mandating it.

It looks like by about the third step you could replace the rest with, “Do you care anymore? Y/N?” and more importantly “Does the controller care anymore or are they even looking at it? N.”

I asked in a group of mostly controllers on FB if they felt they were all adequately trained on this garbage. The few that bothered to answer said they don’t care what you file, and that’s about it. Crickets.

Same group also has been warned numerous times that their bosses are watching, so I guess that tells the story. Nope. But none are going to say that.

Best guess? The few who responded at all are super senior and DGAF. It’s how it works at my work.

Guess who’s supposed to say something and derail the really stupid crap before it gets started? Yeah. The guy who has some white hair. LOL.

I’m trying to teach the youngster the ways of the curmudgeonly sysadmin but he blew up Production again today. Well to be precise, he restarted Production during business hours trusting that nobody else had screwed It up.

Never do that man. 6PM is hero or zero time. Not 1PM. It’s going to hurt a lot less, I promise.

Deja Fu : Someone has kicked me in the head like this before. Perhaps me. LOL.

Doooooon’t do it. It’s gonna hurt. See you did it, and it hurt again, didn’t it? LOL.
 
John Collins said:
For coding ICAO Surveillance, if you have a mode S transponder that does ADS-B Out, you can add B1 (ADS-B Out Only) or B2 (ADS-B Out with IN) to the existing C transponder code, so C,B1 is for a KT74, Avidyne, GTX330ES, GTX335, Status ESG and C, B2 is for a GTX345, L3 Lynx 9000
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John, thank you for several really good posts about this stuff (I read the ForeFlight post as well).

I'm trying to figure out how my (potentially) new airplane is equipped. It has a GNS 530 and GTX 345. I just want to triple confirm the GTX345 is sending Mode C. I know it has ADS-B In/Out, but I don't want to go gallivanting in a Mode C veil unless I'm sure it has Mode C (it's gotta have it, right?).

I *think* I file this aircraft as Equip: G,S and Surveillance: B2,C

Thanks!
Ken
 
John C. nailed it in #10 and #17. However, don't hold your breath that ATC will know about all these codes when you file, at least for a while. Hopefully ATC won't have to guess that I have WAAS GPS.

It's OK if you save all the codes in Leidos and file. If you are air filing, hope I can remember "SGBR" or I can just say that I'm equipped with IFR GPS in case that's necessary for routing. I'm not memorizing the PBN SUR and CODE fields. Shouldn't be necessary anyway.
 
The question is, can we set a GTX345 so that we cannot be tracked by tail number.....?
 
John Collins said:
If you file /G; Set S, G in the ICAO equipment and C in the ICAO Surveillance.
If you file /U; Set S in the ICAO equipment and C in the ICAO Surveillance.
If you file /A; Set S, D in the ICAO equipment and C in the ICAO Surveillance.

...only the first three equipment specifications will handle 95% of all GA pilots, the rest is nice to have, but for the time being is not essential.

The basic rule is if you don't know what a code means, you don't have it.
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You left out /X, which I suspect is more than 5% of aircraft. Of course, most of us /X guys don't file flight plans very often...
 
chemgeek said:
John C. nailed it in #10 and #17. However, don't hold your breath that ATC will know about all these codes when you file, at least for a while. Hopefully ATC won't have to guess that I have WAAS GPS.

It's OK if you save all the codes in Leidos and file. If you are air filing, hope I can remember "SGBR" or I can just say that I'm equipped with IFR GPS in case that's necessary for routing. I'm not memorizing the PBN SUR and CODE fields. Shouldn't be necessary anyway.
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It’s not just them not knowing about the new codes but them still being on the old equipment suffix format. There’s no way of typing into the flight data computer C172 / SGBR 282B. Not to mention, I seriously doubt they have any training on those formats. My brother is a controller and I asked him a couple months back and he had no clue about the ICAO format. Just like the ADS-B implementation, it’s a perfect example of the left hand (ATC) not knowing what the right hand (FAA management) is doing.
 
In the terminal environment at least, the equipment codes still show up for us as simply /G if you have a GPS, /A for dme, etc.... “Cessna 172 slant golf” is perfect if the controller asks.
 
Unit74 said:
The question is, can we set a GTX345 so that we cannot be tracked by tail number.....?
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No. The 1090 spec does not allow for an anonymous mode, you have to be 978/UAT only to get that.

Luckily, FlightAware stopped showing "position-only flights" (those without a filed flight plan) unless you create an account and enable that feature, so now my mom doesn't text me every single freaking time I fly. :rofl:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
No. The 1090 spec does not allow for an anonymous mode, you have to be 978/UAT only to get that.

Luckily, FlightAware stopped showing "position-only flights" (those without a filed flight plan) unless you create an account and enable that feature, so now my mom doesn't text me every single freaking time I fly. :rofl:
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Tell her to start using Flightradar24 then. She can spy on you without a flight plan with that program.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
N
Luckily, FlightAware stopped showing "position-only flights" (those without a filed flight plan) unless you create an account and enable that feature, so now my mom doesn't text me every single freaking time I fly. :rofl:
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LOL. So you’re telling us all we have to do is show your mom how to set up a user account on FA and she can go back to annoying you? Hahaha. Way too many here would say, “Challenge Accepted!” Hahaha.

I watch a number of friend’s airplanes with my FA account. Never though to put yours in and text you annoying stuff like “Don’t crash” every time it alerts haha.

Mostly because I only filled the limited list with local airplanes. But hmmm. Annoying Kent. I’ll have to think about this. Hahaha.

Like that time we all jumped poor Troy when we thought his airplane was flying home from Garmin... haha.
 
denverpilot said:
LOL. So you’re telling us all we have to do is show your mom how to set up a user account on FA and she can go back to annoying you? Hahaha. Way too many here would say, “Challenge Accepted!” Hahaha.

I watch a number of friend’s airplanes with my FA account. Never though to put yours in and text you annoying stuff like “Don’t crash” every time it alerts haha.

Mostly because I only filled the limited list with local airplanes. But hmmm. Annoying Kent. I’ll have to think about this. Hahaha.

Like that time we all jumped poor Troy when we thought his airplane was flying home from Garmin... haha.
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:rofl:

It's actually slightly annoying, because when I send the link to people, I *want* it to show up! Both mothers (MIL) were complaining that they couldn't see us on our recent trip to Seattle.

I told my mother-in-law how to enable it. :D
 
Palmpilot said:
It's been reported on the red board that the online ICAO flight plan form doesn't accept non-ICAO airport IDs (i.e., ones with numbers in the identifier). :rolleyes1:
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This has not been my experience, I've filed ICAO flight plans in the DC SFRA with 3-character alphanumeric airport codes...
 
GeorgeC said:
This has not been my experience, I've filed ICAO flight plans in the DC SFRA with 3-character alphanumeric airport codes...
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I wonder if you've been able to do this because you are using a proprietary flight planner than converts it for you in the background (eg Foreflight). Last I checked, you still can file for thousands of US airports directly on the FSS web site without doing the ZZZZ workaround.
Jon
 
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