Climb power - MCP or 25" squared

K

k9medic

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Sep 27, 2018
Messages
867
Location
N Central FL and GTC Bahamas when off work
Display Name
Display name:
ATP-H, CMEL, CSEL, CFI/CFII Airplanes and Helicopters
My buddy and I had a discussion the other day. I climb out at MCP and 2500 on the prop until I level off. I then pull the prop back to 2300 and adjust the mixture (going through 5000') which normally gives me 65% cruise.

My buddy pulls the throttle and prop back to 25 squared just as soon as we clear 700'.

Backgrounds for us - Both of us are ATP's with thousands of hours but little time over the years flying small piston stuff. Buddy is retired corporate pilot having flown P-51's, F4U's, B25's in the airshow world in the 70's and 80's (yes, he's a tad bit older...) I didn't get to fly the warbirds but fly for a living.

What works best? Is this the "oversquared" argument?
 
What engine/plane? NA or turbo?
 
Probably depends on the engine but with 4 cyl. lycomings like my J model Mooney has I think it is common practice to climb at MCP and RPM. The engine is rated to run like that all day long. As long as the engine is cool I don't think you are going to hurt anything and you need the power to climb. Most people I know think you are not doing a Lyc. any favors by babying it.
 
k9medic said:
My buddy and I had a discussion the other day. I climb out at MCP and 2500 on the prop until I level off. I then pull the prop back to 2300 and adjust the mixture (going through 5000') which normally gives me 65% cruise.

My buddy pulls the throttle and prop back to 25 squared just as soon as we clear 700'.

Backgrounds for us - Both of us are ATP's with thousands of hours but little time over the years flying small piston stuff. Buddy is retired corporate pilot having flown P-51's, F4U's, B25's in the airshow world in the 70's and 80's (yes, he's a tad bit older...) I didn't get to fly the warbirds but fly for a living.

What works best? Is this the "oversquared" argument?
Click to expand...

By MCP do you mean full throttle?
 
The main reason for reducing power after takeoff is to reduce noise and a tiny bit of engine wear in exchange for a minor decrease in climb performance. Beyond that, it's personal preference.
 
mooneyflyfast said:
Probably depends on the engine but with 4 cyl. lycomings like my J model Mooney has I think it is common practice to climb at MCP and RPM. The engine is rated to run like that all day long. As long as the engine is cool I don't think you are going to hurt anything and you need the power to climb. Most people I know think you are not doing a Lyc. any favors by babying it.
Click to expand...

Yup, I climb the J full throttle full prop at 500fpm, which is usually at ~120kts. Engine stays cool, and you maintain reasonable speed while climbing.
 
MCP Microsoft Certified Professional
MCP Master Control Program
MCP Multi-Chip Package
MCP Molecular & Cellular Proteomics (American Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology)
MCP Microsoft Certified Partner
MCP Monocyte Chemoattractant Protein
MCP Monocyte Chemotactic Protein
MCP Massachusetts Contingency Plan
MCP Metacarpophalangeal (joint)
MCP Multi-Core Processor
MCP Media and Communications Processor (NVIDIA nForce)
MCP Microchannel Plate
MCP Modified Citrus Pectin (antiadhesive agent)
MCP Membrane Cofactor Protein
MCP Malawi Congress Party (Malawi political party)
MCP Medical College of Pennsylvania
MCP Multi Camera Production
MCP Maritime Communications Partner (telecommunications company)
MCP Mathematics, Chemistry and Physics (various universities)
MCP Macromolecular Chemistry and Physics (publication; Wiley)
MCP Macmillan Computer Publishing
MCP Mod Coder Pack (Minecraft)
MCP Management Certificate Program (various schools)
MCP Military Care Package
MCP Molecular and Cellular Pharmacology (various schools)
MCP Massachusetts College of Pharmacy
MCP Major Capital Project
MCP Mode Control Panel
MCP Mobile Contactless Payment
MCP Malayan Communist Party (political group)
MCP Mar Cor Purification (various locations)
MCP Master Control Panel
MCP Media Communications Processor
MCP Market Clearing Price (equilibrium price)
MCP Master of City Planning
MCP Male Chauvinist Pig
MCP Monthly Capitation Payment (healthcare)
MCP Motion Compensated Prediction
MCP Medi-Cal Program (Department of Health Care Services; California)
MCP Mobile Command Post
MCP Medicinal Chemistry and Pharmacognosy (various organizations)
MCP Mode Conditioning Patch (cable)
MCP Minimum Convex Polygons
MCP Minimum Contract Period
MCP Motor Circuit Protector
MCP Motor Challenge Programme (EU)
MCP Maternity Care Program (various locations)
MCP Medical Claims Processing (various companies)
MCP Master Computer Program
MCP Meritorious Commissioning Program (US Marine Corps)
MCP Mentoring Children of Prisoners
MCP Mass Customization Platform
MCP Management Control Program
MCP Multi Channel Plate
MCP Math Coprocessor
MCP Moto Club Pirate (French: Pirate Motorcycle Club; Switzerland)
MCP Marketing Communication Plan
MCP Medically Compromised Patient
MCP Manual Call Point
MCP Multi-Channel Processing (various locations)
MCP Montgomery County Police (Maryland)
MCP Manual of Concrete Practice (American Concrete Institute)
MCP Measurement Comparison Program (laboratory measurement assurance)
MCP Maximum Continuous Power
MCP Mixed Complementarity Problem
MCP Management Communication Program (Stanford University; California)
MCP Master Control Processor
MCP Master Change Proposal
MCP Minority Counsel Program (American Bar Association)
MCP Mentoring Children of Promise (various locations)
MCP Marginal Cost-Pricing (economics)
MCP Millennium Coastal Park (UK)
MCP Mission Critical Partnership (Hewlett Packard)
MCP Mobile Computing Program (various universities)
MCP Management Control Plan
MCP Metrowerks CodeWarrior Project
MCP Malay Concordance Project
MCP Maine Coastal Program (Augusta, ME)
MCP Master of Community Planning
MCP Metal Clay Powder (silver)
MCP Mission City Press
MCP Master Code Professional (fire safety certification)
MCP Mission Capability Package(s)
MCP Myrinet Control Program
MCP Main Command Post
MCP Macapa, Amapa, Brazil (Airport Code)
MCP Major Crown Project (Canada)
MCP Medical Center of Plano (Texas)
MCP Mission Control Programmer (US NASA)
MCP Maintenance Collection Point
MCP Mercy Care Plan
MCP Meth Cleanup Program (Montana)
MCP Main Coolant Pipeline (nuclear energy)
MCP Master Control Process
MCP Marketing Company President
MCP Microbial Cell Project (US Department of Energy)
MCP Moral Courage Project (New York University)
MCP Methyl Chemotaxis Protein
MCP My Course Planning (Australia)
MCP Multifocal Choroiditis and Panuveitis (ophthalmology)
MCP Motor Control Panel
MCP Municipal Compliance Plan
MCP Message Control Program
MCP Mark C Pope Associates, Inc (Smyrna, GA)
MCP Merchant Control Panel (software)
MCP Minimally Conscious Patient
MCP Multimode Communications Processor
MCP Marine Corps Capabilities Plan
MCP Medico Cirujano Y Partero (Spanish)
MCP Magic Cooking Products (Australia)
MCP Mission Comptable Permanente (French: Permanent Mission Accountant)
MCP Miamisburg Closure Project
MCP Maintenance Control Program
MCP Mission Critical Program
MCP Metasynthesis of Computing Paradigms
MCP Multiport Communication Processor
MCP Multiprotocol Communications Processor (Sun Microsystems)
MCP Malaysia Conference on Photonics
MCP Materials Control Plan
MCP Master's of City Planning
MCP Mekong Collaboration Program (InSTEDD)
MCP Mississippi Coastal Program
MCP Management Consulting Process
MCP Mission Coordinating Paper
MCP Merged Call Processor (Sprint)
MCP Multi Control Panel
MCP Mission Control Panel
MCP Message Processing Center
MCP Military Continuous Power
MCP Management and Control Processor (ATM)
MCP Main Controller Power (AT&T)
MCP Major Case Prints
MCP Materiel Change Program
MCP Medical Continuation Pay
MCP Master Control Port (Cisco)
MCP Maintenance Computer Program
MCP Main Coolant/Cooling Pump
MCP Maine Central Power
MCP Managing Complexity Programme (University of York; UK)
MCP Membrane Co-factor of Proteolysis
MCP Monitor Microchannel Plate
MCP Mission Concept Paper
MCP Monitor and Control Protocol
MCP Melamine Component Panel
MCP Materiel Change Plan
MCP Master Craftsman Program
MCP Ministry Certificate Program
MCP Metal Conjugated Polymer
MCP Merge Control Process
MCP Military Cooperation Program
MCP Morse Critical Point
MCP Motion Capture Process
MCP Multiple Cable Penetrator
MCP Multi-Component Product Code
MCP Military Construction Plan/Program
MCP Minimum Carriage Paid
MCP Methane Combustion Project
MCP Mishap Co-Pilot
MCP Modular Component Prediction
MCP More Coffee Please
MCP Mobile Checkpoint (military/peacekeeping)
MCP Model Compliance Program
MCP Mean Continuous Period (manufacturing)
MCP Make Connor Proud (memorial)
MCP Mission Collage Prepatory
MCP Mutual Coupling Parameter
MCP Mike & Chris Productions (YouTube channel)
MCP Member of Canadian Parliament
MCP Mobile Call Pickup (NewStep Networks)

Oh, there it is.
 
k9medic said:
My buddy and I had a discussion the other day. I climb out at MCP and 2500 on the prop until I level off. I then pull the prop back to 2300 and adjust the mixture (going through 5000') which normally gives me 65% cruise.

My buddy pulls the throttle and prop back to 25 squared just as soon as we clear 700'.

Backgrounds for us - Both of us are ATP's with thousands of hours but little time over the years flying small piston stuff. Buddy is retired corporate pilot having flown P-51's, F4U's, B25's in the airshow world in the 70's and 80's (yes, he's a tad bit older...) I didn't get to fly the warbirds but fly for a living.

What works best? Is this the "oversquared" argument?
Click to expand...

I use Vy, max power and RPM through 1000 ft to minimize the the dangerous part of an engine loss on takeoff. After that it a trade off of getting to altitude or a setting for engine longevity. Full climb power to 1000 AGL, 25/2500 to altitude, the 2300 RPM is what I would use.
 
A really really good question, actually. For background, I fly a Mooney M20C Ranger. I started following the POH and cutting back power and prop to 25 square as soon as practicable after liftoff. I saw some very anecdotal evidence that the ship burns less oil that way as well. I got convinced by some other Mooney pilots that this was balderdash and I was imagining things, and started using full power (I assume that's what MCP means) and 2500 on the prop. I swear I'm burning more oil, thankfully I document oil use now. I'm going to go back to 25 squared and see.
 
I’m gettin confused here. Power is a function of Manifold Pressure and RPM’s. 2500 RPM may or may not give you Max Power. I think the OP meant full throttle and 2500 RPM.
 
steingar said:
A really really good question, actually. For background, I fly a Mooney M20C Ranger. I started following the POH and cutting back power and prop to 25 square as soon as practicable after liftoff. I saw some very anecdotal evidence that the ship burns less oil that way as well. I got convinced by some other Mooney pilots that this was balderdash and I was imagining things, and started using full power (I assume that's what MCP means) and 2500 on the prop. I swear I'm burning more oil, thankfully I document oil use now. I'm going to go back to 25 squared and see.
Click to expand...

POH > Mooney Pilots
 
James331 said:
POH > Mooney Pilots
Click to expand...

From the POH:

CLIMB (Best Rate) 1. Power - FULL THROTTLE & 2'700 RPM, 2. Mixture - LEAN FOR SMOOTH OPERATION. 3. Cowl Flaps - FULL OPEN. 4. Airspeed - I01 MPM (88 KT'S) IAS at Sea Level decreasing to 94 MPH (82 KTS) IAS at 10,000 Ft. 5. Ram Air -ON AFTER ENTERING CLEAR AIR
 
Bill Jennings said:
From the POH:

CLIMB (Best Rate) 1. Power - FULL THROTTLE & 2'700 RPM, 2. Mixture - LEAN FOR SMOOTH OPERATION. 3. Cowl Flaps - FUEL OPEN. 4. Airspeed - I01 MPM (88 KT'S) IAS at Sea Level decreasing to 94 MPH (82 KTS) IAS at 10,000 Ft. 5. Ram Air -ON AFTER ENTERING CLEAR AIR
Click to expand...

And that’s the answer to that.
 
MCP for me.
Turbo charged aircraft.

All the POH charts have ROC and time to
Climb based off MCP.
 
k9medic said:
.....Is this the "oversquared" argument?
Click to expand...

Probably. If you are holding full MP, manifold pressure, and keeping the RPM at 2500, you are probably oversquare for awhile depending on what the density altitude is
 
Last edited:
I’d do 25 squared for the ever so slight noise reduction. Got to keep those NIMBYs somewhat happy.
 
EdFred said:
Isn't that usually going to be everything forward?
Click to expand...
Depends on the airplane. I have flown airplanes that have had time limits, either one or five minutes, on maximum continuous power after which a thrust reduction to climb power was required.

Frankly, I don’t recall what airplanes required the thrust reduction. It might have been the 402
 
Mooney with o-360 here. I climb out WOT prop full forward until 1000 AGL, then I pull the rpms back to 2500 still WOT adjusting rate of climb to keep CHT under 400. I kinda use CHT as primary for pitch during the climb.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Depends on the airplane. I have flown airplanes that have had time limits, either one or five minutes, on maximum continuous power after which a thrust reduction to climb power was required.

Frankly, I don’t recall what airplanes required the thrust reduction. It might have been the 402
Click to expand...

Turbo lance requires power reduction.
Max takeoff power 36” 2700 for maximum of 5 minutes.
MCP 33” 2575
 
But if you are reducing power, it's no longer maximum then is it? :D


Yes, I know, max continuous means maximum power that won't result in engine grenades.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Maximum Continuous Power. Not necessarily full throttle.
Click to expand...

I guess ‘continuous’ has something to do with it. What I’m having trouble getting my head wrapped around is getting more, as in maximum, power by reducing RPM. I’m assuming he needs to pull the prop back a little to get it down to 2500
 
luvflyin said:
I guess ‘continuous’ has something to do with it. What I’m having trouble getting my head wrapped around is getting more, as in maximum, power by reducing RPM. I’m assuming he needs to pull the prop back a little to get it down to 2500
Click to expand...
Maximum can apply to a lot of things. Maximum Takeoff Power. Maximum Climb Power. Maximum gear extended speed, Maximum gear extension speed, etcetera.

You have to factor in the qualifier to understand which maximum to apply.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Maximum can apply to a lot of things. Maximum Takeoff Power. Maximum Climb Power. Maximum gear extended speed, Maximum gear extension speed, etcetera.

You have to factor in the qualifier to understand which maximum to apply.
Click to expand...

Now I’m getting it. Thanks. It’s like if they threw the word ‘allowable’ in there it would have clicked
 
luvflyin said:
Now I’m getting it. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Like posted up above, you can run certain engines (turbocharged) at full throttle, and full RPM for a few minutes, any more than that is going to cause engine problems. You can't continuously run it maxed out. So after 3 minutes or 5 minutes, or whatever, the settings are then a reduction in RPM and/or Manifold pressure. This setting is safe to run until you're out of fuel, maximum continuous power - the highest setting you can run it non-stop without watching the engine come from together.
 
Good gosh....:rolleyes: Do some of you guys even fly???

Cliff notes:
  1. MCP is in fact Maximum continuous power. I mostly fly turbine aircraft which require a power reduction after takeoff so I guess in the case of a piston aircraft I should have said "full throttle."
  2. What is a manual? Gee, never thought to look there... A 1967 Cherokee 6 has very limited information in the POH. Nothing about power settings, only airspeed. The "Checkmate" checklist shows 24/24 for a climb but who knows where that data came from.
  3. How in the world did we get talking about Mooneys? This is a dang Cherokee 6/260.
 
EdFred said:
Like posted up above, you can run certain engines (turbocharged) at full throttle, and full RPM for a few minutes, any more than that is going to cause engine problems. You can't continuously run it maxed out. So after 3 minutes or 5 minutes, or whatever, the settings are then a reduction in RPM and/or Manifold pressure. This setting is safe to run until you're out of fuel, maximum continuous power - the highest setting you can run it non-stop without watching the engine come from together.
Click to expand...

Now I get it. Thanks
 
k9medic said:
Good gosh....:rolleyes: Do some of you guys even fly???

Cliff notes:
  1. MCP is in fact Maximum continuous power. I mostly fly turbine aircraft which require a power reduction after takeoff so I guess in the case of a piston aircraft I should have said "full throttle."
  2. What is a manual? Gee, never thought to look there... A 1967 Cherokee 6 has very limited information in the POH. Nothing about power settings, only airspeed. The "Checkmate" checklist shows 24/24 for a climb but who knows where that data came from.
  3. How in the world did we get talking about Mooneys? This is a dang Cherokee 6/260.
Click to expand...

I don't memorize every single acronym. Flying is my avocation, not vocation, I have more important things to remember, than some 3 letter acronym I may or may not have seen in the past 15+ years.

That said, similar engine to the Comanche I fly. If I'm climbing to that altitude, throttle forward and somewhere in the 500 AGL range I reduce RPM to 2400 or 2300 - depends on my mood.
 
my rule is....what are the CHTs and TIT doing?

Are they cool enough? If so and there is no operation limit....Keep your cool & motor on. If hot, make adjustments...like lowering the nose, opening cowl flaps, and or adding "fuel"as in more mixture if not full rich (could also need a mechanic to adjust max fuel flow settings to get more)....to get the CHTs in a cool enough point. Lycomings that's 400 deg F or less...TCMs need to be cooler 370 ish or less.

Back to the original discussion....what RPM? Doesn't matter IMHO.
 
Last edited:
k9medic said:
Good gosh....:rolleyes: Do some of you guys even fly???

Cliff notes:
  1. MCP is in fact Maximum continuous power. I mostly fly turbine aircraft which require a power reduction after takeoff so I guess in the case of a piston aircraft I should have said "full throttle."
  2. What is a manual? Gee, never thought to look there... A 1967 Cherokee 6 has very limited information in the POH. Nothing about power settings, only airspeed. The "Checkmate" checklist shows 24/24 for a climb but who knows where that data came from.
  3. How in the world did we get talking about Mooneys? This is a dang Cherokee 6/260.
Click to expand...

I think MCP was fine. Those of us, maybe just me, who didn’t get it at first learned something. Now I can answer your question. Don’t argue with guys who fly planes that have guns:D
 
I bring the rpms down to 2500 shortly after takeoff for the noise (usually around 700 AGL). I live in a residential airpark, and while we like the sound of airplanes, we try to do what we can for the neighbors around us.

I do think about TITs during the climb. Come to think about it, I think about TITs most of the time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top