“Bargain” $1,000 phone?

Wow!! Both almost exactly what I thought would never exist... great news, and serious kudos to those behind the efforts. The only gotcha is, as usual, the compatibility issue. After reading through those two links (admittedly quickly), Puri has its own proprietary operating system, and PinePhone will run a fork of Linux. I'm still VERY interested, but the chances of being able to use either as a backup for iFly or FltPlanGo in flight are pretty much nil.. unless some serious coding pilot decides to jump in, sort of like the Avare folks. Thanks for the links.. I will be watching them very closely!

The other option is to get a standard Android phone and run a custom de-googleified/AOSP ROM like LineageOS or others. Admittedly then you still have to work around the lack of the Google store to load the apps you want.
 
I normally like to join these libertarian war-marches, but as an App developer, I have about $8,000 worth of data-collectors, nee "phones" on my desk, and have google and apple so far up my data bung, they could run my life automatically for me at this point. I should just ask them to periodically send me products from Amazon, pay my bills, and remind me when to do laundry.

+1 on the Librem though. If I wasn't already a privacy lost cause, I'd probably have one of those. :D

Could Librem somehow run foreflight in some type of VM or something?

I’d also wonder if it could spoof being a iOS for the Facetime and iMessage, it’s a thin line from being too much of a outlier and just being another iOS/Android.
 
New phone.?? Only 1000 bucks.??


1311723169535.jpg
 
Could Librem somehow run foreflight in some type of VM or something?

I’d also wonder if it could spoof being a iOS for the Facetime and iMessage, it’s a thin line from being too much of a outlier and just being another iOS/Android.

Gosh, not very well at the moment, but sure -- there are virtual iOS and Android "VM"s out there. I know Apple has crushed a few over the years. Most I know these days (Smartface, Ripple) are cloud-based, presumably to hide from the long arm of Tim Cook. :D

There was a super good one I used to use that got crushed. Can't think of the name of it this morning. Maybe after my tea.

These mobile CPUs are getting really good. If things like Foreflight can stop adding performance-hogging glitter features, I bet it'd be easy to run on a pure OS.
 
Gosh, not very well at the moment, but sure -- there are virtual iOS and Android "VM"s out there. I know Apple has crushed a few over the years. Most I know these days (Smartface, Ripple) are cloud-based, presumably to hide from the long arm of Tim Cook. :D

There was a super good one I used to use that got crushed. Can't think of the name of it this morning. Maybe after my tea.

These mobile CPUs are getting really good. If things like Foreflight can stop adding performance-hogging glitter features, I bet it'd be easy to run on a pure OS.

I’d wager that’s why they are so fixated on crushing them
 
It's got a nice camera, but the Galaxy S10+ is a much, much better phone otherwise. Just depends on whether you want to pay the premium for it, which is what this thread is all about! ;)


I came from a Samsung...............and am so happy to be out of their layer on top of Android................thus having to root Samsung phones. They are quite definitely not a contender to Pixel.
 
Based off googles history I wouldn’t buy one of their devices, seems Apple makes their expensive phones the product, whereas google makes your data the product.


I almost fell off my chair, reading that!!! HaHaHa..........Apple isn't watching you with Alexa and their phones????? Dream on!!
 
I always thought Apple was missing the “Sport” market, with something like the old Sony Sport Walkmans.
I run/workout with an Phillips armband MP3 player. Nothing fancy, thing is about the size of a match book (1.75"x1.75"). Never could stand running with anything the size of a smartphone in my pocket or strapped to my arm. I wanted something that was able to worn without noticing it's weight/size and something with physical buttons to press for ease of switch songs/volume or pause. Sony still makes a Walkman MP3 player that fits that genre. Smartphones sizes/weights don't fit that Sport/workout niche very well.
 
I almost fell off my chair, reading that!!! HaHaHa..........Apple isn't watching you with Alexa and their phones????? Dream on!!

They did have the balls to tell the fbi to F’ off when they asked them to crack their own encryption. Google on the other hand even helps China censor its people.
 
I look at smart phones as entertainment. So, cost out of the entertainment budget.
 
I run/workout with an Phillips armband MP3 player. Nothing fancy, thing is about the size of a match book (1.75"x1.75"). Never could stand running with anything the size of a smartphone in my pocket or strapped to my arm.

Sounds like a good solution. An Apple Watch could be a solution, but overkill for what you need.

As another thing I no longer need to buy is a cycle computer. With a RAM mount, the iPhone makes a great cycle computer, in my case with Strava keeping track of time, distance, calories, feet climbed and the like. Even keeps track of my time over certain segments and compares it to previous efforts and even the efforts of others. See the thread on Strava elsewhere for examples/screenshots.
 
Sounds like a good solution. An Apple Watch could be a solution, but overkill for what you need.

As another thing I no longer need to buy is a cycle computer. With a RAM mount, the iPhone makes a great cycle computer, in my case with Strava keeping track of time, distance, calories, feet climbed and the like. Even keeps track of my time over certain segments and compares it to previous efforts and even the efforts of others. See the thread on Strava elsewhere for examples/screenshots.
And the really cool thing is the rest of us, with or without your knowledge and permission, can track your progress too if we care enough to do so. Great job on your workout yesterday, but you really slacked off on Saturday. Oh..and... a teal tech shirt....really? Seriously...
 
If a company would produce an open-source version of a smart phone and sell it without ANY Google, Apple, Amazon, or other huge data-mining corporation's garbage on it, they'd probably be overnight millionaires. I've never had a smart phone; my cell phone is a Kyocera DuraXV clamshell I purchased to replace my beloved LGvx8300 when it FINALLY died after about twelve years. The Kyocera is a great solid phone. Period. Exactly what I want.

Back to the smart phone... GPS signals are free, and you should be able to choose what map software you'd like to use without GoogleMaps tracking your life or having to jailbreak your phone. You should not have to setup an account with ANY phone manufacturer to use its functions or "log in" to your own phone. I have a tablet for flying, and it irked me to no end to be FORCED to setup a Google account just to use it. There's no need, and I have every "Google" function disabled on it that I could. I'd buy a phone that let me take great pictures and video, use data, swap and backup my OWN data to my OWN server at home via BT/WIFI/ or SD card (like I do for every OTHER computer on my network!), use for navigation via builtin gps, etc, without having to be assimilated into the Google/Apple Borg instantly... I'd buy two of those yesterday! With things as they stand now, I'll never buy a smart phone... and don't get me started about Echo, Alexa, Google Home, and whatever the iSpy version of those things is....

I have an ancient Toshiba Thrive tablet that I rooted and installed a google-free operating system on, along with a couple apps from fdroid and learned how to sideload, but the tablet is soooo ancient that it's pretty much useless as anything other than an experiment now. I'd hesitate to go through that process and void the warranty on an expensive new device... plus, at least from what I've found, the choices of software that do NOT invade your privacy are pretty thin.

Someone... please... start making such a thing.. or if it's out there already and I'm just oblivious... TEACH ME TONIGHT!!!

For car navigation, Magic Earth no longer requires any registration, collects no personal data, does not require Google Play Services nor Google Maps, and runs on any version of Android. It does collect traffic information if you choose to enable traffic services, but does so anonymously.

I often think about building an Android device to use just for navigation and mapping. If some of the apps need Google Play Services, I'll just register it to Leticia. (She's one of my many bogus Google identities.)

Rich
 
Apple is having an event tomorrow where they’re expected to announce new iPhone models. No doubt some will easily break the $1,000 barrier. Which is an insane amount to spend on a phone.

No argument from me, if it was “just a phone”. But think of some of the devices it replaces and what they cost...

1) A compact digital camera. No need for that anymore, and I’m sure many of us have bought our last. And they weren’t cheap, figure at least $200 to $300. And the video quality on modern phones far exceeds the resolution and frame rate of video cameras even a few years ago.

2) A GPS car navigator. Several hundred dollars there, plus usually the cost of map updates.

3) A GPS aviation navigator. Not so long ago I spent over $1,200 for a Garmin 295, and more recently a bit more, I think for my 496. And again, the cost of regular database updates. All clearly surpassed by ForeFlight or equivalent on a phone.

4) An mp3 music/podcast player. How much did we used to spend on iPods and equivalent?

Not to mention all the user-specific needs it fills - calculator, dB meter, books, news aggregator, social media/internet interface, whatever.

A $1,000 phone kept for 3 years and then given away translates to about $1/day. Sold on eBay for several hundred dollars when upgrading, and it’s substantially less.

Stipulated that there are cheaper phones that do all of the above, but my point is that even $1,000 (or more) for these devices is not as outrageous as it seems at first blush.
Uh. . . there are cheaper devices - I got all that on a Samsung Android with Consumer Cellular for $150.00 (less FF). True, I had to cripple Google Play Services and a lot of other stuff, which takes time & research effort. On the rare occasion I want to use the GPS feature, I have to "un-do" some things temporarily. And I don't install apps, either. I could lose my phone tomorrow and not lose anything of value; contacts aren't in there, etc.

For me, it's voice, some text, and a very, very occasional web search. No financial apps, and really, how time-striven are most banking transactions? I'll use my land-line and bank's voice response system for those. My phone i off during working hours, as I have several full-featured computers on my desk. And a land-line.
 
Sounds like a good solution. An Apple Watch could be a solution, but overkill for what you need.

As another thing I no longer need to buy is a cycle computer. With a RAM mount, the iPhone makes a great cycle computer, in my case with Strava keeping track of time, distance, calories, feet climbed and the like. Even keeps track of my time over certain segments and compares it to previous efforts and even the efforts of others. See the thread on Strava elsewhere for examples/screenshots.

Problem is, the Apple Watch only allows 2GB of music to sync, needs charging almost daily (obviously does more functions), and mostly requires Apple Music/iTunes to work. My $30 MP3 player holds 8GB and battery lasts for 30 hours of playback and will play any mp3/flac/etc you throw at it.

I haven’t tried the Strava app on my phone due to no ram mount on the bike, but I think it’d be nice just for general course location knowledge to prepare for that next curve earlier or change gearing quicker.
 
Uh. . . there are cheaper devices - I got all that on a Samsung Android with Consumer Cellular for $150.00 (less FF). True, I had to cripple Google Play Services and a lot of other stuff, which takes time & research effort. On the rare occasion I want to use the GPS feature, I have to "un-do" some things temporarily. And I don't install apps, either. I could lose my phone tomorrow and not lose anything of value; contacts aren't in there, etc.

For me, it's voice, some text, and a very, very occasional web search. No financial apps, and really, how time-striven are most banking transactions? I'll use my land-line and bank's voice response system for those. My phone i off during working hours, as I have several full-featured computers on my desk. And a land-line.
The "are" italcized, in
Point taken. Too bad I didn’t think of that.

Oh, wait. From the OP: “Stipulated that there are cheaper phones that do all of the above...”
The "are" being in italics, indicating agreement with the OP about cheaper devices existing, and continuing on to illustrate an example of one. . .
 
Well the cameras will never be as good as a larger real camera as cameras are all about the glass, and a phone just doesn’t have the real estate for a real lens

MP3, the phone is larger and the battery isn’t as good as a stand alone music player, if I’m going to be working out or running or something I’ll bring my tiny little music player.

These phones are really a jack of all trades and master of none, the $1k ones are also quasi jewelry status things.

Now one thing I will hand to apple, is they have a WAAAY better security stance compared to creepy google/android.
Granted on the first couple of points... but we have a DSLR, a nice camcorder, and a smaller point & shoot digital camera. On average, one of them (not all of them) get used 2-3 times a year, at most. Don't remember the last time anyone used an MP3 player. It's been even longer since we had a standalone GPS device for a car. We only occasionally use the in-car nav systems any more because they suck, and they're usually out of date (and yes, roads DO seem to change frequently).

The smart phone really has, for the most part, replaced all of those things for most people. That said, I dislike Apple, really dislike Google, and would never pay anywhere near $1K for a phone, I don't care if it came with a suction attachment. For cleaning out the car, I mean.
 
$1000 isn’t much money today.


Apple is having an event tomorrow where they’re expected to announce new iPhone models. No doubt some $1000will easily break the $1,000 barrier. Which is an insane amount to spend on a phone.

No argument from me, if it was “just a phone”. But think of some of the devices it replaces and what they cost...

1) A compact digital camera. No need for that anymore, and I’m sure many of us have bought our last. And they weren’t cheap, figure at least $200 to $300. And the video quality on modern phones far exceeds the resolution and frame rate of video cameras even a few years ago.

2) A GPS car navigator. Several hundred dollars there, plus usually the cost of map updates.

3) A GPS aviation navigator. Not so long ago I spent over $1,200 for a Garmin 295, and more recently a bit more, I think for my 496. And again, the cost of regular database updates. All clearly surpassed by ForeFlight or equivalent on a phone.

4) An mp3 music/podcast player. How much did we used to spend on iPods and equivalent?

Not to mention all the user-specific needs it fills - calculator, dB meter, books, news aggregator, social media/internet interface, whatever.

A $1,000 phone kept for 3 years and then given away translates to about $1/day. Sold on eBay for several hundred dollars when upgrading, and it’s substantially less.

Stipulated that there are cheaper phones that do all of the above, but my point is that even $1,000 (or more) for these devices is not as outrageous as it seems at first blush.
 
If I had to buy a phone within the next few months, it most likely would be this one:

https://shop.shiftphones.com/shift6mq.html

Shiftphones is a German company that emphasizes environmental sustainability and stewardship. Accordingly, all their phones have old-school removable batteries and are designed to be easily repaired. They even include a screwdriver with the phone. It's the only tool needed because the back of the phone is removable without tools and all the internal screws use the same screwdriver.

Capitalism is a great thing, even when it's left-wing capitalism. As other manufacturers have collectively decided to screw the consumer by making the only part of a phone that actually wears out non-replaceable, Shiftphone is rapidly growing. In addition to the greenies, they attract people like me who simply don't want to be screwed by racketeers.

The only catch is that you have to be on a GSM carrier. I don't believe any of their phones support CDMA.

Rich
 
Problem is, the Apple Watch only allows 2GB of music to sync, needs charging almost daily (obviously does more functions), and mostly requires Apple Music/iTunes to work. My $30 MP3 player holds 8GB and battery lasts for 30 hours of playback and will play any mp3/flac/etc you throw at it.[snip]

Just how far do you run/cycle? :eek:
 
Just how far do you run/cycle? :eek:

Right? When I wrestled in high school, I ran five miles five days a week and 18 miles on Saturdays, with nothing but running shorts and sneakers. Imagine what I could have done with a portable computer!

Rich
 
Just how far do you run/cycle? :eek:

Lol, well, when I was running every day then going for a workout it was roughly 1.5-2hrs of "active" time. 6 days a week. So I could go almost 2 weeks without needing to charge the thing, and I could load enough music to where I wasn't listening to the same 100 songs in a loop. I have a large library of music, lol. These days (2 kiddos, 3yr old and a 4 month-old), I don't have the ability to work out like that. I still use it when on long airline flights (15hrs to Dubai) because it'll last the entire flight with no issues.
 
I learned something today. I didn't realize there were aviation GPS apps out there for your phone.

I've never downloaded an app in my life, but if I was ever going to this would be the one. Problem: My phones have always stopped working once I'm in flight.

I just upgraded my Blackberry Z10 to the Keyone, if that tells you how outdated I am. But I'm perfectly okay with that.

And oddly, I seem to be one of the few people who use my phone primarily for making phone calls. The other features are nice and come in handy, but really, the only reason I have one is for the phone function.
 
For an increasing number of people their phone is becoming their primary computing device outside of perhaps a work computer. I have work computer(s) and a personal phone, a tablet, and laptop. While my work computer(s) by far get the most usage, from my personal computing devices my phone gets top spot as that is what I primarily use to consume media. This is increasingly true for many people, especially younger people in my generation (millenial) and gen z. If your phone is basically taking the place of 2 computing devices you might otherwise have had, is $1000 really such a crazy number to spend?

Also I find it somewhat hilarious that a bunch of pilots are surprised people are willing to spend so much money on their hobby and toys. Those in glass houses and all that...
 
The event had some interesting announcements.

Most impressive was when they were showcasing the camera capabilities of the iPhone 11, 11 Pro and 11 Pro Max. Worth checking out. The price on the 11 starts at $699, which was a pleasant surprise. The Pro and Pro Max are the $1,000+ devices. Some older models are still in the lineup at reduced prices.

I have not kept up with what other brands are doing, so I won’t venture that these cameras on the new models are the best. But like I said, some very impressive results were shown for both stills and videos.

The base iPad got nice upgrades and starts at $329. The Apple Watch Series 5 now has an always-on display, which is a nice improvement. And the Apple TV service came in lower than expected, at $4.99/month.

No plan to upgrade my iPhone X right now. May consider upgrading my Apple Watch Series 3 somewhere down the line.
 
The price on the 11 starts at $699, which was a pleasant surprise.
Not if you figure out their name game. The 11 is this year's Xr and 11 Pro is this year's Xs. The Xr released at $749 and the 11 released at $699. Nice that they knocked off $50 but it's not that much in the grand scheme of things.
The base iPad got nice upgrades and starts at $329.
Disappointed that it still uses the A10 chip. This is sort of reminding of the iPad mini 3 vs iPad mini 2.
 
IPhone guy here, started with the 5 after being frustrated with Android reliability. I now have the 7plus. Its a fantastic product, the camera on it is plenty good to leave the DSLR at home. Its battery can go a couple days no issue. Right now I have now real reason to replace it, but when that happens I am sticking with a new iPhone. As stated above, between the phone and my IPad I rarely bother to use my desktop anymore.
 
My oldest, clunkiest i-device is the iPad Mini2 I’m typing this on and sending out via cellular. It still works but is getting kind of long on the tooth and a bit slow. I’ve been waiting for a bezel-less iPad Mini to take the leap.

But I’m going to take a close look at the new iPhone Pro Max. With its 6.5” screen, it might be able to serve double duty as phone and tablet - “phablet” as it were. And that camera! Downside is the size for everyday phone use, and the fact that some apps and websites work differently on iPhones and iPads. Upside is my X is worth $340 on Gazelle, and historically eBay brings a bit more.

Anyway no huge rush to send more money to Apple. And 2020 is rumored to have even more interesting upgrades.
 
For an increasing number of people their phone is becoming their primary computing device outside of perhaps a work computer. I have work computer(s) and a personal phone, a tablet, and laptop. While my work computer(s) by far get the most usage, from my personal computing devices my phone gets top spot as that is what I primarily use to consume media. This is increasingly true for many people, especially younger people in my generation (millenial) and gen z. If your phone is basically taking the place of 2 computing devices you might otherwise have had, is $1000 really such a crazy number to spend?

Also I find it somewhat hilarious that a bunch of pilots are surprised people are willing to spend so much money on their hobby and toys. Those in glass houses and all that...

I guess it's a generational thing to some extent.

To me, the idea of watching movies on a phone when perfectly-good devices with bigger screens are available makes absolutely zero sense. The same goes for pretty much any activity that involves a screen. I'll check email on my phone if I'm traveling, but if it requires more than a few words of reply, I'm more likely to fire up the tablet -- and even that's only if I don't have something with an even bigger screen available. Why squint at tiny screens when big screens are available? I've never understood that and I doubt I ever will.

For very short trips (basically an hour or less), I take an Amazon Fire HD 10 tablet along. It has a Bluetooth keyboard and RDP, SSH, and email clients. I like the machine. It allows me to work remotely for a few minutes if I have to, so it's basically grab-and-go freedom for me. It also has a lot of other capabilities, but other than reading books and checking forums, I rarely use any of them. I might watch a Prime video if I encounter an unexpected wait somewhere, but that's about it.

For longer trips, I take a 17-inch laptop along. Why? Because they don't make them any bigger. If they did, I'd buy one. It's not that I can't see smaller screens. It's that I think it's ridiculous to squint and tap at tiny screens when bigger ones are available.

At a recent family get-together, my teen-aged nephew set up some sort of wireless connection that allowed him and my two teen-aged nieces to watch a movie streamed from either the cable box or the streaming box to their phones. They were huddled together in the corner, all watching the same movie, at the same time, on their phones, when there was a huge-screen 4K television in the room that no one was watching. And mind you, they had to go out of the way to cast the movie to their phones, so they were watching it on their phones preferentially. Why? It makes no sense.

I've also witnessed two people in the same room talking to each other over some video app. Seriously. What's the point? They could have just looked at each other and talked. Why do they need the app?

In all candor, younger peoples' obsession with their phones strikes me as borderline pathological. It's just a tool, and one that I consider inferior to most other tools that do the same things. So I don't get the obsession. What are they staring at all day that's so much better and more important than the world around them? And why do they prefer communicating through that screen when the people with whom they're communicating are sitting in the same room?

To me, a smartphone is a convenience. If I'm waiting for an email while I'm outside doing chores, it's easier to carry the phone than to schlep a computer around. But when the mail comes in, I'm probably going to go inside to reply to it using a computer. Why tap at a tiny screen when a big screen with a full keyboard is right through the door?

The only things my phone does better than any other devices I know of are navigation- and mapping-related -- and that's because of the specific software, not the device. And even in that case, I'm thinking about buying or building an Android device with a larger screen and dedicating it to running those apps.

For literally everything else the phone does, there are better alternatives. The phone is just more convenient, not better.

Rich
 
I guess it's a generational thing to some extent.

To me, the idea of watching movies on a phone when perfectly-good devices with bigger screens are available makes absolutely zero sense. The same goes for pretty much any activity that involves a screen. I'll check email on my phone if I'm traveling, but if it requires more than a few words of reply, I'm more likely to fire up the tablet -- and even that's only if I don't have something with an even bigger screen available. Why squint at tiny screens when big screens are available? I've never understood that and I doubt I ever will.

For very short trips (basically an hour or less), I take an Amazon Fire HD 10 tablet along. It has a Bluetooth keyboard and RDP, SSH, and email clients. I like the machine. It allows me to work remotely for a few minutes if I have to, so it's basically grab-and-go freedom for me. It also has a lot of other capabilities, but other than reading books and checking forums, I rarely use any of them. I might watch a Prime video if I encounter an unexpected wait somewhere, but that's about it.

For longer trips, I take a 17-inch laptop along. Why? Because they don't make them any bigger. If they did, I'd buy one. It's not that I can't see smaller screens. It's that I think it's ridiculous to squint and tap at tiny screens when bigger ones are available.

At a recent family get-together, my teen-aged nephew set up some sort of wireless connection that allowed him and my two teen-aged nieces to watch a movie streamed from either the cable box or the streaming box to their phones. They were huddled together in the corner, all watching the same movie, at the same time, on their phones, when there was a huge-screen 4K television in the room that no one was watching. And mind you, they had to go out of the way to cast the movie to their phones, so they were watching it on their phones preferentially. Why? It makes no sense.

I've also witnessed two people in the same room talking to each other over some video app. Seriously. What's the point? They could have just looked at each other and talked. Why do they need the app?

In all candor, younger peoples' obsession with their phones strikes me as borderline pathological. It's just a tool, and one that I consider inferior to most other tools that do the same things. So I don't get the obsession. What are they staring at all day that's so much better and more important than the world around them? And why do they prefer communicating through that screen when the people with whom they're communicating are sitting in the same room?

To me, a smartphone is a convenience. If I'm waiting for an email while I'm outside doing chores, it's easier to carry the phone than to schlep a computer around. But when the mail comes in, I'm probably going to go inside to reply to it using a computer. Why tap at a tiny screen when a big screen with a full keyboard is right through the door?

The only things my phone does better than any other devices I know of are navigation- and mapping-related -- and that's because of the specific software, not the device. And even in that case, I'm thinking about buying or building an Android device with a larger screen and dedicating it to running those apps.

For literally everything else the phone does, there are better alternatives. The phone is just more convenient, not better.

Rich

Agreed on all points . . . and I'm in that "younger" group. The phone is for light browsing or using an app designed for a specific purpose (hotel booking/check-in, FB, local weather forecast, etc). For anything that requires multiple browser tabs to be open (researching products/repair how-tos/etc) I'm going to be on a tablet at a minimum, but more likely fire up the laptop or desktop. I'm not doing spreadsheets on anything that doesn't have a physical keyboard with a 10-key. YouTube videos are fine on a phone if it's just something in passing, but if I'm watching something like a technical video that's 10+ minutes long, I'd rather have it on a tablet or computer screen so I don't have to hold it up at eye-level to watch. Movies/tv shows? That's on the tv no matter what, even if I have to mirror/stream the phone to do it. In all honesty, if they banned cellphones tomorrow, I wouldn't bat an eye. I feel no need to have it on my person at all times, and frequently miss calls when I leave it on the counter/nightstand on weekends while I'm elsewhere in the house. I have FB to keep up with friends/family, but rarely post anything. No YT or Instagram/Twitter accounts, I don't use filters on photos/videos, I don't take selfies or pictures of my food at a restaurant. People just get way too attached to a tool.
 
I reply to all email and texts that I receive on my phone by "voice."

It is usually a little garbled and incorrect, but everyone understands it and knows how it was done....and cares less.
 
Falling further behind... not to mention simple stuff like a working split screen mode...

 
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