Should this go on a medical????

A

Aruna Phoenix

Guest
Should acupuncture be reported on someone's medical? If so, how would someone explain going for no reason? I went for general health, like a massage. I didn't think the people who administer acupuncture are real doctors, and there profession has no science behind it.
 
Do you report going to a psychic on the mental health portion of the form?
 
for accupuncture ... no biggie ... unless it is for kicking a sub abuse problem or a mental health issue.
 
If by "acupuncture," you mean you stabbed yourself with knitting needles while high on meth, then yes.
 
I've never been able to afford acupuncture...I go to an approxipuncturist. My psychic told me I've already passed my next three medicals, but my medium disagrees. She wouldn't say why, but looked real sad.

Said all in fun. I don't understand acupuncture, nor have I done a lot of research or experienced it, but I would definitely give it a shot ... no pun intended. There's a lot we don't know or can't explain, and I know quite a few very intelligent, logical, pragmatic people who endorse the practice. Personally, I don't get it.
 
If you are in a state that licenses acupuncture, than you have to report it. It's in the directions page which nobody ever reads.


Look for the "state" board of acupuncture examiners. Not all states have them.
 
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If you are in a state that licenses acupuncture, than you have to report it. It's in the directions page which nobody ever reads.
I don't necessarily disagree on the bottom line, but exactly where in the directions nobody reads does it say that?

The instructions say:
List all visits in the last 3 years to a physician, physician assistant, nurse practitioner, psychologist, clinical social worker, or substance abuse specialist for treatment, examination, or medical/mental evaluation.​
No mention of acupuncturists or, for that matter, chiropractors. No definition of "health professional." (never mind the OP's statement, "I went for general health, like a massage," not for "treatment, examination, or medical/mental evaluation." Come to think of it, is that massage reportable if it helps with pain or stress levels? (no "happy ending" jokes, please)

The MedXpress User Guide is a little more helpful. It says:
You are required to enter ALL visits to any health professionals (such as a physician, physician assistant, nurse practitioner, psychologist, psychiatrist, chiropractor, clinical social worker, or substance abuse specialist, including an EAP employer-sponsored specialist) for treatment, examination, or medical/mental evaluation.​
In that one, at least, it uses the list as examples of the types of folks who the FAA considers to be "health professionals," and I personally would put acupuncturists in that group. But again no definition based on licensing. (And again, what about that massage?)
 
If you are in a state that licenses acupuncture, than you have to report it. It's in the directions page which nobody ever reads.


Look for the "state" board of acupuncture examiners. Not all states have them.

Interesting, I didn’t know this.

BTW, my state licenses acupuncturists, but it’s the state Board of Medicine that does it. It looks like the license is pretty much automatic for anyone who completes a three-year accredited training program and passes an English test.
 
If you are in a state that licenses acupuncture, than you have to report it. It's in the directions page which nobody ever reads.


Look for the "state" board of acupuncture examiners. Not all states have them.

Lol

Potty trained at gunpoint eh?

Many states also license tattoo artists, should one also declare their ink?
 
Lol

Potty trained at gunpoint eh?

Many states also license tattoo artists, should one also declare their ink?

Dr. Chien is a highly respected and very knowledgeable AME. He’s under no obligation to come on this forum and advise people on aeromedical issues, but he does and most of us appreciate it.

You come here and act like a petulant child. The above post is a prime example.
 
Dr. Chien is a highly respected and very knowledgeable AME. He’s under no obligation to come on this forum and advise people on aeromedical issues, but he does and most of us appreciate it.

You come here and act like a petulant child. The above post is a prime example.

I appreciate most of what he says, but that doesn’t give him carte blanche right?

So where does a acupuncture dude fall in?

physician
physician assistant
nurse practitioner
psychologist
psychiatrist
chiropractor
clinical social worker
substance abuse specialist

I’m not seeing ANYTHING close

Again, they are more akin to a tattoo artist than any of the above.

If petulant children question things which don’t make sense and use logic, I’ll take that as a compliment.
 
Folks listen to Dr Bruce! You should thank him and appreciate his trying to educate us. Your comments are what I'd expect listening to a 3 year old explain how babies are made and from they come. At best the answers will be humorous, but totally lacking in useful information. Kind of like the IRS telling us we voluntarily pay income tax.

Let's spend our time, effort, and energy in a useful productive manner. Too much mental masturbation, knock it off already.
 
Folks listen to Dr Bruce! You should thank him and appreciate his trying to educate us. Your comments are what I'd expect listening to a 3 year old explain how babies are made and from they come. At best the answers will be humorous, but totally lacking in useful information. Kind of like the IRS telling us we voluntarily pay income tax.

Let's spend our time, effort, and energy in a useful productive manner. Too much mental masturbation, knock it off already.

Cool insult.

Now where on that list does it say acupuncture?

The FAA writes these things for a reason, maybe just follow instructions like Bruce says, and on the instructions it doesn’t say ANYTHING about acupuncture.

Bruce is knowledgeable, but taking his words as gospel without a little due diligence is not a good trait for a pilot. “Well my CFI says....”. Same thing.
 
Cool insult.

Now where on that list does it say acupuncture?

The FAA writes these things for a reason, maybe just follow instructions like Bruce says, and on the instructions it doesn’t say ANYTHING about acupuncture.

Bruce is knowledgeable, but taking his words as gospel without a little due diligence is not a good trait for a pilot. “Well my CFI says....”. Same thing.
The thing is that Bruce knows how the FAA interprets their own instructions. Apparently they do not consider the list on the instructions to be all-inclusive (in other words, they didn't mean these practitioners, and ONLY these practitioners), as is seen by the quote in post #15 from the MedXPress Users Guide (a post you yourself "like"d, no less). So I'm really not following your objections here.
 
The thing is that Bruce knows how the FAA interprets their own instructions. Apparently they do not consider the list on the instructions to be all-inclusive (in other words, they didn't mean these practitioners, and ONLY these practitioners), as is seen by the quote in post #15 from the MedXPress Users Guide (a post you yourself "like"d, no less). So I'm really not following your objections here.

Simply saying they don’t say you need to, I’d wager 98% of pilot who get some acupuncture done don’t even think of listing it on the medical app.
I mean if this is all unwritten stuff, what about tats? That’s much more involved than acupuncture? Getting ones ears/whatever pierced is even more involved.

Acupuncture is really more akin to getting a massage, which is also state licensed (as is like EVERYTHING nowadays), does one need to report a massage too?

It’s just silly, and baring a letter or guidance from the actual FAA, I wouldn’t waste the keystrokes
 
I appreciate most of what he says, but that doesn’t give him carte blanche right?

So where does a acupuncture dude fall in?

physician
physician assistant
nurse practitioner
psychologist
psychiatrist
chiropractor
clinical social worker
substance abuse specialist

I’m not seeing ANYTHING close

Again, they are more akin to a tattoo artist than any of the above.

If petulant children question things which don’t make sense and use logic, I’ll take that as a compliment.

It doesn't make sense to you. Are you now proclaiming to be an expert on Aviation Medicine?

I'll gladly take Bruce's advice over yours, anytime.
 
The thing is that Bruce knows how the FAA interprets their own instructions. Apparently they do not consider the list on the instructions to be all-inclusive (in other words, they didn't mean these practitioners, and ONLY these practitioners), as is seen by the quote in post #15 from the MedXPress Users Guide (a post you yourself "like"d, no less). So I'm really not following your objections here.
Agreed.

My only question to Bruce was to ask the source of the statement I quoted from him - that the MedXpress directions said that if acupuncture is licensed it must be reported. I don't see where it says that.
 
It doesn't make sense to you. Are you now proclaiming to be an expert on Aviation Medicine?

I'll gladly take Bruce's advice over yours, anytime.

No but I have basic reading skills, and I’m not seeing where it says anything about anything close to acupuncture.

So where does it say that?

tenor.gif
 
No but I have basic reading skills, and I’m not seeing where it says anything about anything close to acupuncture.

So where does it say that?

tenor.gif

Great! When you have a potential medical issue that may ground you, just tell the AME that you have basic reading skills and you'll handle this yourself.

And BTW, your question has already been answered here in this thread.
 
Great! When you have a potential medical issue that may ground you, just tell the AME that you have basic reading skills and you'll handle this yourself.

And BTW, your question has already been answered here in this thread.

Well than just hit the quote button, as I dont see where acupuncture was listed, I must have missed it

And no, just like any other skilled labor, I will use them for their skills, but if they say something which is refuted in basic instruction from their governing body, it would be prudent to question things at that point.


Frankly one thing I have learned about AMEs, you have some who are general practitioners or other types of real docs, they just AME on the side to make a little extra $$ and because there are some local pilots who could use the service, then you have AMEs who just AME, basically they give more or less a high school sports physical for a living but with the extra nonsense of the FAA.
The real docs roll their eyes at the FAA crap and just do as part of the job, the hard core AMEs who just AME seem to lavish in the FAA paperwork.

What I have learned is to stay FAAARRRRRRRR away from the AMEs who just AME, they are a headache and often have a ego larger than you'd find in a top published neurosurgeon. Much like a mall security guard who at a party comes off more hard core than seal team 6.

Now Bruce says some good stuff, like reading and following the instructions on medexpress, which says nothing about silly acupuncture, and I agree, just follow the simple black and white.
 
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Well than just hit the quote button, as I dont see where acupuncture was listed, I must have missed it

And no, just like any other skilled labor, I will use them for their skills, but if they say something which is refuted in basic instruction from their governing body, it would be prudent to question things at that point.


Frankly one thing I have learned about AMEs, you have some who are general practitioners or other types of real docs, they just AME on the side to make a little extra $$ and because there are some local pilots who could use the service, then you have AMEs who just AME, basically they give more or less a high school sports physical for a living but with the extra nonsense of the FAA.
The real docs roll their eyes at the FAA crap and just do as part of the job, the hard core AMEs who just AME seem to lavish in the FAA paperwork.

What I have learned is to stay FAAARRRRRRRR away from the AMEs who just AME, they are a headache and often have a ego larger than you'd find in a top published neurosurgeon. Much like a mall security guard who at a party comes off more hard core than seal team 6.

Now Bruce says some good stuff, like reading and following the instructions on medexpress, which says nothing about silly acupuncture, and I agree, just follow the simple black and white.
Health professional, In my State, is defined, as possessing a license. Ymmv, which is why, if there is a board of acupuncture in your state, that person is a professional. See the second item in the instructions.

It’s all about being able to send a bill to an insurance company. That same bill makes discoverable.

Does that help? Pres. O’s designers decided that what was insured was going to determine what was in the “field of evidence”. Thus the connection between a professional board, report ability and insurance.
 
Health professional, In my State, is defined, as possessing a license. Ymmv, which is why, if there is a board of acupuncture in your state, that person is a professional. See the second item in the instructions.

It’s all about being able to send a bill to an insurance company. That same bill makes discoverable.

Does that help? Pres. O’s designers decided that what was insured was going to determine what was in the “field of evidence”. Thus the connection between a professional board, report ability and insurance.

So since sadly damn near everything these days needs a license from the government, basically it comes down to if you paid via insurance?
 
Health professional, In my State, is defined, as possessing a license. Ymmv, which is why, if there is a board of acupuncture in your state, that person is a professional. See the second item in the instructions.

It’s all about being able to send a bill to an insurance company. That same bill makes discoverable.

Does that help? Pres. O’s designers decided that what was insured was going to determine what was in the “field of evidence”. Thus the connection between a professional board, report ability and insurance.

So if one didn't report acupuncture on their last medical, are they up ****s creek?
 
Gotta say Bruce, you really knocked that one out of the park. I suspect this thread will be very helpful to a large number of folks. Plenty of people go in for this sort of thing. A pity there are so many knuckleheads to ruin the moment. I guess saying it's the internet pretty much covers it.
 
It’s amazing how we are held to unpublished random standards.
 
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