[NA]Auto Service[NA]

[Let'sgoflying!]

Does your service center allow you to order items a la carte, or do you have to accept their offering of “Service”?

I took mine in, dropped it off asking for “oil and oil filter”.
I left a large font typed note,
“please perform
1. oil filter change
2. oil change
(and in bold...)
Please call before performing other items 555-1212”

They call to say it’s done (I notice; no missed calls on my phone).
The bill has 7 items including air filter, fluid replenishment, lube.
I say, “Did you not see my note or remember what I asked for?, I wanted two things, oil and filter”
He says, “Well that’s the service we do”
I said “my note was clear about what I wanted, I don’t understand.”
He repeats, “it was clear; but that is what we do here.”
And adds, “maybe you should take it somewhere else next time”

So is it common or normal for a shop to work this way, drop off your vehicle & they do what they want without our input or approval?
He is a busy shop in a small town so I see why he can get away with the ‘like it or lump it’ attitude.
I just don’t get the ‘I don’t care if you ordered a burger, you are paying for fries & a shake too’.
(please don’t offer that ‘he is doing me a favor, those things are a good idea or needed doing’ that would be irrelevant in this thread. it’s also not the $ amount either.)

 

[CharlieD3]

I just took my truck in for oil change/lube and tire rotation to the dealer. I got what I asked for and an inspection that told me my brakes and fluids were all good. No extra $ for the inspection... Nothing done that wasn't asked for...

 

[Zeldman]

Sounds like he knows most people that own cars don't know the difference between the steering wheel and their left phalange.

He is taking advantage of you. Heed his advice to go somewhere else.

Back when I was a mechanic I did what customers asked, unless it was unnecessary or would cause problems later on. And we did maintenance inspections as part of every service and would give the customer a printed list of what we found, good or bad.

With that said I worked in a fleet service shop where we did maintenance on company vehicles so every time a vehicle came in we looked for possible future problems.

 

[Mike Smith]

I run a Ford and Honda service department. If any of my employees said something like that, they would be leaving permanently. You should get what you ask for, further, you should not pay for the other work, if it was in fact done.

 

[chartbundle]

the difference between the steering wheel and their left phalange

Thanks for reminding me, I have an intermittent problem with my left phalange which makes the computer think the lights are out, I upgraded to LEDs and had to add resistors which apparently have an intermittent open between the phalange and the doohickey.

 

[Ted]

That has become very common these days. Shops will do work that they didn't get told to perform (or in some cases were specifically told not to perform) because they know that most of the time the customer will just pay.

I've gotten to where I'm not afraid to pull out the "unauthorized labor" card and refuse to pay for services not asked for, or at least use that to negotiate pricing.

That said, on something like oil changes I just do them myself to save this kind of issue.

 

[RyanB]

I’m thankful to have a father that’s spent decades in the automotive world. Oil changes, Body Repair, Brake-jobs, you name it can all be done in our garage. Not to mention he’s a class act when it comes to re-painting cars.

It’s unfortunate that shops take advantage of people in the ways that they do. Just this week, my co-workers Ford Fiesta had a battery issue. She and her husband are totally clueless when it comes to automotive stuff. She was quoted ~$400 for a new battery and some type of ‘cable’ to get it fixed. I told her, “that must be some expensive labor you’re paying for...”

 

[Grum.Man]

My mom took her new CRV in for it's second or third oil change and left with a $900.00 bill. I gave them a piece of my mind. I think they charged her over 300.00 to install a new cabin air filter.

 

[SoonerAviator]

That has become very common these days. Shops will do work that they didn't get told to perform (or in some cases were specifically told not to perform) because they know that most of the time the customer will just pay.

I've gotten to where I'm not afraid to pull out the "unauthorized labor" card and refuse to pay for services not asked for, or at least use that to negotiate pricing.

That said, on something like oil changes I just do them myself to save this kind of issue.

Agreed 100%. If I told you what I wanted done, and you took it upon yourself to perform other items and try to charge me for it, I'm going to decline payment. I'll take you to court over it, too, if a mechanic's lien is filed.

 

[Bill]

Dave, pay for the oil + filter, and tell them to stuff the rest you know where.

And like @Ted DuPuis , this is reason #536 that I do my own service.

 

[Ted]

I’m thankful to have a father that’s spent decades in the automotive world. Oil changes, Body Repair, Brake-jobs, you name it can all be done in our garage. Not to mention he’s a class act when it comes to re-painting cars.

Make sure you're learning those skills, grasshopper.

Agreed 100%. If I told you what I wanted done, and you took it upon yourself to perform other items and try to charge me for it, I'm going to decline payment. I'll take you to court over it, too, if a mechanic's lien is filed.

Yeah. It's one thing if a company has a relationship with you and knows that you'll want certain things done if they find it. It's another thing to take it upon themselves to do whatever and bill you for it. That's inexcusable.

 

[Matthew]

It's unfortunate that some place are relying on packaging services. I'll often see the "30,000 mile service" that includes all sorts of things that generate $$$$ in billing. Then when you look at the service items in the manual it says, "at 30,000 miles replace engine oil and filter".

Getting to the OP, if they do top off fluids for me as part of their service, that's OK by me (as long as they don't charge for it). If they do anything extra and don't charge, that's one thing but I've only had one time, at one place, where they did something I didn't want and then try to charge me for it.

 

[flyingron]

Crooks are crooks and good service is good service. The Chevrolet dealership I dealt with in Virginia was 100% crooked. They hit me up for $600 of nonsense on top of what a warranty service. The dealership down here in NC doesn't ever try that stuff. They do what I tell them. They sometimes will offer that "this service is due" or something like that, but its not a hard sell and it's always reasonable work.

 

[MuseChaser]

I agree with everything already posted, and I, too, do a lot of my own work for those very reasons. About the ONLY thing I can possibly find in the mechanic's possible defense would be the possibility that your first written item,"1. oil filter change," MAY have been interpreted as "Oil and filter change" which, in turn, COULD be taken to mean "Change oil and filters" by someone who's in a hurry and used to doing routine jobs. That's a total stretch, and is pretty much negated by you listing "2. Oil change." Just trying, as I usually do, to see both sides of a story before deciding who, if anyone, is at fault. His statements, "that's just the way we do things.. if you don't like it, go elsewhere" pretty much slam-dunks that decision... he's at fault.

FWIW, when I DO need to take my car in for stuff that either I can't do or is warranty work, I never just drop it off. I speak with a rep, usually the service manager, look at what they write down on the service order, and don't sign anything approving the work until it's worded satisfactorily. At that point, I sign the work approval and work begins. That's at the dealership. I'm fortunate enough to have another good friend who runs a local shop. Him, I'll just toss him the keys, but it took a year or so to develop that trust relationship.

 

[Juliet Hotel]

I thought auto repair shops had to get a signature on a work order outlining all work to be performed before they can do anything. Is that no longer the case?

 

[Ted]

I thought auto repair shops had to get a signature on a work order outlining all work to be performed before they can do anything. Is that no longer the case?

What's required and what you can get away with are two different things.

 

[Matthew]

I agree with everything already posted, and I, too, do a lot of my own work for those very reasons. About the ONLY thing I can possibly find in the mechanic's possible defense would be the possibility that your first written item,"1. oil filter change," MAY have been interpreted as "Oil and filter change" which, in turn, COULD be taken to mean "Change oil and filters" by someone who's in a hurry and used to doing routine jobs. That's a total stretch, and is pretty much negated by you listing "2. Oil change." Just trying, as I usually do, to see both sides of a story before deciding who, if anyone, is at fault. His statements, "that's just the way we do things.. if you don't like it, go elsewhere" pretty much slam-dunks that decision... he's at fault.

FWIW, when I DO need to take my car in for stuff that either I can't do or is warranty work, I never just drop it off. I speak with a rep, usually the service manager, look at what they write down on the service order, and don't sign anything approving the work until it's worded satisfactorily. At that point, I sign the work approval and work begins. That's at the dealership. I'm fortunate enough to have another good friend who runs a local shop. Him, I'll just toss him the keys, but it took a year or so to develop that trust relationship.

That is a possible case with dealers or other shops that normally package services. When you really do want oil and filter only, the tech might go ahead and do a number of other items because that's what they always do. He, or she, is under pressure to get done as quickly as possible and might miss the work order where it says ONLY do oil and filter. It's an understandable mistake. The trouble really starts when the boss tries to charge for that mistake.

 

[Juliet Hotel]

What's required and what you can get away with are two different things.

If a signed work order is required and assuming no sign work order was created, then what they got away with was performing a bunch of other services that I wouldn't be obliged to pay for.

 

[RyanB]

Make sure you're learning those skills, grasshopper.

Other than his talent for color matching and re-painting, of which he made a living off of for over 20 years, I’ve tried to put as much of his knowledge into my bag of tricks.

 

[schmookeeg]

That mechanic is ridiculous, arrogant, and wrong.

If he is also good, well, you get to weigh whether fighting him on the excess billing is worth losing access to him as a gifted wrench. Sounds like he has placed his bet on which way you'll fall.

I detect lots of parallels with aviation here.

 

[Ted]

If a signed work order is required and assuming no sign work order was created, then what they got away with was performing a bunch of other services that I wouldn't be obliged to pay for.

Right, but remember that a lot of clients will just pay the bill because they know they can’t fix their own car.

It’s wrong and we should all fight it. But they do it because more often than not they get away with it.

 

[RJM62]

I think a lot of it depends on the shop's appraisal of the customer. If they know or have reason to know that the customer is mechanically savvy, they tend to just do what they're told to do unless something is glaringly dangerous. If not, they look more closely for other problems.

This isn't always about padding the bill. If something needs correction, I think a shop has an ethical obligation to point it out to the customer. But they shouldn't actually fix it without approval.

As for me, I do most of my own routine vehicle work. Even at shops that I consider basically honest, the prices don't seem to add up anymore. I don't mind people making money at their craft, but car repair prices are getting a little ridiculous lately.

One recent example was a brake job I did. It would have cost about $800.00 at a shop that has a posted $75.00 / hour labor rate. The parts (brake pads, rotors, hardware kit, and lube) cost me ~ $200.00 from RockAuto. The shop in question is a NAPA affiliate and uses NAPA parts by default. NAPA has the brake parts they recommended available for ~ $300.00 retail. I'm assuming the shop would pay less -- probably closer to the $200.00 that I paid.

Even at the full NAPA retail price, however, an $800.00 bill would still leave $500.00 for labor, which would have been six hours forty minutes at the shop's posted rate. Considering that it only takes 20 to 30 minutes per wheel to change the pads and rotors on my car (and that's without a lift), something's not right. The math just doesn't add up.

So I did it myself. I have the tools, the skills, and the time. But had they come up with a more reasonable price that reflected retail on the parts and the actual time spent at the posted labor rate, I would have had the shop do the work. At $300.00 for the parts and 1.5 hours labor, $450.00 would have worked out mathematically, and I would have plunked down cash. I probably would have gone higher -- say maybe to $550.00 -- just not to have to do the work while sitting in the mud. But $800.00? No way. I'll do it myself.

For oil changes, I think Walmart is as good a place as any to go if you don't want to do it yourself. Their store-branded oil that they use by default isn't great, but it's not horrid; and the filters are no worse than what most other mechanics use. If you want to upgrade, you can pick out oil and a filter from the shelves, and I think they charge something like $2.00 over the product price to do the work for you. Plus they can't upsell you because all they do are oil changes, tires, and batteries.

Here's another thing that annoys me about car mechanics. Kia is very picky about their filters, and there have in fact been some problems traced to some aftermarket filters. So I buy the Kia filters. They're very good and they're cheap. But try to find a mechanic who'll install it. The nearest one I know is about 50 miles away. They don't want the liability, they say. But really, it's the manufacturer's own filter. Where is the liability? And mind you, I'm not asking for a price reduction. Charge me the full price, but use this filter. But almost no one will do it.

Meh. Who cares. The only reason I would pay a mechanic to do an oil change would be if it came due in the middle of the winter, anyway. So now I just work around the seasons and schedule the oil changes so that doesn't happen. If I ever misjudge and I don't feel like working outside in sub-zero weather, I'll drive the 50 miles to the mechanic who'll use the OEM filter.

Rich

 

[flyingron]

As I said, there are crooks and there are honest people. A crook will take advantage of the naive. The honest guy won't do something just because he can get away with it. I've got two good dealers (one Toyata and one Cheverolet) here finally. If I could just get the Toyota guys to believe me when I tell them what the part is need so it's on hand by the time I get there.

Never found a good Audi dealer but we did have a good independent guy across the street from the old house.

 

[Ted]

I think a lot of it depends on the shop's appraisal of the customer. If they know or have reason to know that the customer is mechanically savvy, they tend to just do what they're told to do unless something is glaringly dangerous. If not, they look more closely for other problems

Not how we did things. Mechanically inclined or not we did the job, we let them know if we found other things. We gave advice and did what the customer asked.

 

[denverpilot]

Add me to the, "I wouldn't pay for it" list. My shop would never do that. If they did, they'd eat it. I'd probably end up paying them something on an honest mistake, but not "Oh that's just what we do..." Nope.

 

[Everskyward]

I haven't had that happen, even with a big city dealership.

 

[RJM62]

Not how we did things. Mechanically inclined or not we did the job, we let them know if we found other things. We gave advice and did what the customer asked.

The two shops I usually use don't do anything beyond what's on the ticket anymore. I mainly use them for state inspections and things like tire mounting and balancing, but they used to check for things like dirty cabin air filters and the like every time I showed up. After a few years, they realized that they weren't going to find anything, so they stopped looking. I'm sure if something jumped out at them, they'd let me know. But they don't look very hard anymore.

I don't have a problem with checking for problems, by the way, as long as they don't lie about it. I'm pretty OCD about maintenance, but if I miss something, I do hope they let me know.

Rich

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Thanks everyone.
Events happen in my life where I go, "Am I totally out of touch here?"
And, I'm not always looking for support of my position; I need to know when I am OTL.

 

[Sundancer]

After warranty expires, forget using a dealer's maintenance shop. . .I've had them leave the drain plug out after an oil change, etc. High speed, low quality, as a rule. . .

 

[Bill]

High speed, low quality, as a rule. . .

Beat the book is the name of the game.

 

[Ted]

After warranty expires, forget using a dealer's maintenance shop. . .I've had them leave the drain plug out after an oil change, etc. High speed, low quality, as a rule. . .

As with anything, very much depends. I never thought I'd be a dealer customer, but we used the Mercedes dealer in Wichita (when my wife was working there) for maintenance on the E55 a good bit. I was always 100% satisfied. Customer service was great, they'd loan her a brand new Mercedes something-or-another each time, didn't care how many miles she put on it (it was usually 400-800) and didn't charge for it. Of course the maintenance wasn't cheap, but it was always done right the first time. And with how complicated the thing is, harder to take to an independent shop.

Honest people and crooks exist in all realms.

 

[Ted]

The two shops I usually use don't do anything beyond what's on the ticket anymore. I mainly use them for state inspections and things like tire mounting and balancing, but they used to check for things like dirty cabin air filters and the like every time I showed up. After a few years, they realized that they weren't going to find anything, so they stopped looking. I'm sure if something jumped out at them, they'd let me know. But they don't look very hard anymore.

I don't have a problem with checking for problems, by the way, as long as they don't lie about it. I'm pretty OCD about maintenance, but if I miss something, I do hope they let me know.

Sure, as you get to know a customer you adjust your practices some. But as a rule you come in, you get the feel for the customer quickly but we always treated them the same.

 

[RJM62]

As with anything, very much depends. I never thought I'd be a dealer customer, but we used the Mercedes dealer in Wichita (when my wife was working there) for maintenance on the E55 a good bit. I was always 100% satisfied. Customer service was great, they'd loan her a brand new Mercedes something-or-another each time, didn't care how many miles she put on it (it was usually 400-800) and didn't charge for it. Of course the maintenance wasn't cheap, but it was always done right the first time. And with how complicated the thing is, harder to take to an independent shop.

Honest people and crooks exist in all realms.

I actually feel the same way about the dealership I use for recalls (Romeo Kia in Kingston, New York). They've never once tried to pad the bill, and everyone I've spoken to at the service and parts departments seems competent. Even my borderline tires the last time I went for a recall only merited a handwritten "You'll be needing new tires soon" on the courtesy inspection report alongside the actual (and truthful) tread measurement.

That being said, I still do most of my own maintenance. But I do buy filters and the like from them now rather than ordering them online. Eventually I'll need something like a clutch replacement or a wheel alignment, which I'll most likely let them do. They haven't done anything other than recalls for me so far, but I've been impressed with their honesty.

Rich