NON A&P maintenance

Fiveslide said:
So, either way, yeah obviously feeling better. :D
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34V is here being repaired by me. I do what I can when I feel up to it.
I see the folks in question working on the PA28-201T That hasn't flown since 2003, Prepping it for sale.
I know for a fact the AWC is at FSDO. It's going to be fun to see what transpires when someone does a pre-buy.
At one time it was a nice Arrow.
 

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Tom-D said:
Well then,, why not answer the question?
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Because you are unable to answer all the questions surrounding this.

Are they working on an experimental aircraft? Maybe it’s a business thing where they are downgrading a certified aircraft. Is there an A&P working with them who will inspect the work when complete? Are they maybe working on an airplane for static display?

None of this is known and they create far too many variables to give any kind of answer.
 
Mike Smith said:
An insurance company really only has one thing in mind on any claim, what is the simplest way to end the claim. In the litigious society we live in, that pretty much means writing a check and moving on. The people in question would never get insurance again, but that claim would sail right through.
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Why do you say that? I had a $65,000 claim on a 182RG about 15 years ago. Insurance paid the claim and renewed at the same premium.
 
Nothing will happen until there is an incident to start the investigation process. Even then, if the powers that be aren't interested in turning over that stone, then things will just carry on.
 
Something on a similar note. Many mechanics come on here, giving all sorts of troubleshooting advice. I have often wondered about the wisdom in giving out this sort of information in an open forum, from both a liability concern and also a professional one.

I have first hand experience with this. A guy on the airport I worked at was widely known to do all his own work, completely uncertified. He would come into the hangar to "borrow" this and that. He would ask how to do this job and that. I finally told my boss he has worn out his welcome with me and I would not help him anymore. The boss laughed and asked me what took me so long to say anything! It was then that I noticed that the boss would disappear when the guy would show up.
 
JAWS said:
A guy on the airport I worked at was widely known to do all his own work, completely uncertified.
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You talk'n 'bout me?
JAWS said:
He would come into the hangar to "borrow" this and that. He would ask how to do this job and that.
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Oh, you ain't. On the other hand, my A&P (does my condition inspections) has borrowed a couple things from me. Does that count?

Of course, since my ride has a pink slip, so the laws of physics don't apply to it. That's why you don't see a trail of flaming death raining from the sky wherever I go. Otherwise, I would be long dead, the wife would have left me, the dog would have bit me, and my insurance would have been void due to my lack of certificates.

Statistics show that the number one cause of aviation fatalities is improper log entries -paperwork keeps us safe.
 
JAWS said:
Something on a similar note. Many mechanics come on here, giving all sorts of troubleshooting advice. I have often wondered about the wisdom in giving out this sort of information in an open forum, from both a liability concern and also a professional one.
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The liability concern is... what? that an uncertified miscreant gets caught wrenching without a license, and says in his ironclad defense "I read it on the internet" -- and then the FAA, insurance company, or bereaved estate pursues the poster on an internet forum??
 
JAWS said:
giving out this sort of information in an open forum, from both a liability concern and also a professional one.
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In my experience, there's zero on the liability side. It's been tried but never saw/heard any attempt that stuck legally. However, from the pro side I don't offer any specific "wisdom" on certain issues unless I can see the problem for myself. Sometimes the person describing the problem can get tunnel vision and miss pertinent details concerning that problem--especially on electrical issues or leaks.
 
JAWS said:
Something on a similar note. Many mechanics come on here, giving all sorts of troubleshooting advice. I have often wondered about the wisdom in giving out this sort of information in an open forum, from both a liability concern and also a professional one.

I have first hand experience with this. A guy on the airport I worked at was widely known to do all his own work, completely uncertified. He would come into the hangar to "borrow" this and that. He would ask how to do this job and that. I finally told my boss he has worn out his welcome with me and I would not help him anymore. The boss laughed and asked me what took me so long to say anything! It was then that I noticed that the boss would disappear when the guy would show up.
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Offering general troubleshooting advice is unlikely to get one into trouble. I think where one might get into trouble is trying to provide a hard diagnosis. Also giving specific instructions on how to do something or tossing around torque values or other measurements, dimensions, etc could be taken as gospel by the novice and lead to potential issues. However I know of no instances of anyone getting into trouble by doing so. Still, CYA.
 
JAWS said:
Something on a similar note. Many mechanics come on here, giving all sorts of troubleshooting advice. I have often wondered about the wisdom in giving out this sort of information in an open forum, from both a liability concern and also a professional one.
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You can sue someone for giving out free advice? Really? So if I ask my neighbor to recommend a roofing guy, and then I hire the roofing guy and decide I don't like the job he did I can sue my neighbor? Sweet. See you in court buddy, that zero turn mower of yours is going to be mine!
 
Juliet Hotel said:
You can sue someone for giving out free advice? Really? So if I ask my neighbor to recommend a roofing guy...
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Doubtful in that instance. But if your neighbor is a doctor and you ask about the pain in your gut and you act on that advice it has been a gray area which some have taken advantage of. On the A&P side not so much as Part 43 is performance based and not information based. However, have seen/read AP/IAs get called out by crafty individuals for not mentioning or insisting owners should comply with mandatory OEM bulletins after an accident which could have been prevented by the bulletin. Unfortunately, the definition of "duty of care" in a liability/negligence case is not bound by regulation, truth, or common sense sometimes, and one can get called out for most anything for the right amount of money.
 
they need to fix this whole mess and allow owner mx.

for example, I don't believe it's that difficult to change an alternator or redo the brakes or replace some knobs/handles/switches and even bigger jobs for some.

i'm fine keeping a logging requirement. If they wanted to, they could consider doing something like EAB where the owner can do anything, but once a year he has to find a mechanic to inspect it. That would keep the worst of the bad mx at bay, i'd hope.

Hopefully, when I buy, I can find a great mechanic to collaborate with me and let me do some tasks under supervision.

they also need to way loosen up the parts thing, there's no reason a non-revenue bird shouldn't be able to use a Timken bearing from NAPA for a wheel that holds up 1,000 pounds and "drives" a grand total of 10 miles a year. yes, it's a big issue if it fails, but the part isn't getting that much wear.
 
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Tom-D said:
I am not in any way associated with theses guys. I'd bet no A&P is.
Aircraft in question, is no longer in the data base @FAA.

The question remains "What will any insurance company do when they find that the aircraft was worked on by some one who is not a properly certified mechanic".
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Who says you have to have insurance?
 
MIFlyer said:
they need to fix this whole mess and allow owner mx.
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FAA announced they’re going to do it last week or so. A category similar to Canada’s.

Means it’ll happen in about ten years, maybe. But there’s hope. LOL.
 
Tom-D said:
NTSB has some really good inspectors, They can tell when she thing has been worked on, So when they see no entry in the logs, for obvious maintenance. What then?
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Same as my field ... medical insurance states they are going to approve a procedure, THEN pull the rug out and refuse payment after it is completed. If insurance company can figure out a way to wiggle out of paying, they will ... can close thread now;)

Clip4 said:
How do you know they have insurance? There no requirement for insurance in most states.
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Trick will be to see which mechanic gets talked into pencil whipping a signature so it can be listed "fresh annual":eek::confused:
 
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