Annual inspection

Ryanb said:
None of us here have any way of confirming anything that you say, because nobody knows who you are other than someone who acts like an anonymous blowhard sitting behind a computer screen, using the alter ego from an 1800's gambler.
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Thanks for proving my point. ;)
 
dtuuri said:
Suppose some defect occurred in the area already buttoned up during such a flight.
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That's a valid point and something the IA or A&P would have to consider depending on the type of inspection they perform. However, just as that flight, there is no guarantee the first flight after the inspection is signed off there won't some defect that crops up during that flight.
dtuuri said:
Or suppose a time or cycle-limited inspection interval was completed early in the month, then the hours and cycles flown before the sign-off won't be reflected correctly and will exceed the allowable interval at the item's next inspection.
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Not exactly. When starting an inspection early over a period of time the next inspection is due from when the inspection started and not when it ended to ensure the inspection interval is maintained. However, there are some OEM programs (mainly helicopters) that allow an inspection to be performed over a period of time with no loss of the operational time during the completion of the inspection.
 
Ryanb said:
Sure and until you prove your identity, you can say anything you want, but it doesn’t mean it has any validity.
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Bell206 said:
Okay. Then for curiosity's sake, what is the difference between the context of this post (#104) and what the OP stated in Post #1?
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Context is what the reader makes it.
Until Bluerooster clarified it, I wasn't the only one thinking the aircraft was going to be flown.
Even you have come around to admitting any maintenance completed must be returned to service prior to flight.
 
Bell206 said:
Not exactly. When starting an inspection early over a period of time the next inspection is due from when the inspection started and not when it ended to ensure the inspection interval is maintained.
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But the OP said the annual would be signed off long AFTER the early portions and he believes it is legal to continue to fly it based on the previous annual expiration:

bluerooster said:
The current annual inspection is good until the end of this month. The A&P has signed the Engine mx, (prop paint/balance, and new vacuum regulator) with appropriate log entry. Next week, we'll perform mx on the wings, and undercarriage. A&P will sign off said mx. The following week. we'll perform mx on the fuselage, and tailfeathers. At that time, the IA, (same guy as the A&P) will then sign off the annual inspection, as he will have inspected the entire aircraft by that time. Whether or not the airplane will be flown between stages remains to be seen. But the mx will be duly logged, and returned to service, as it is performed, and the inspection will be logged when all is completed.
Nowhere did I mention that the airplane will be flown, between stages. But it will still be legal to do so, as mx will be logged. And is still in annual.

Now, had the annual inspection run out, then all bets are off.

We've been doing it this way for several many years, and the FSDO has no problem with it.
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I say, despite what FSDO is said to approve, unless conducted under an approved progressive inspection the plane should be grounded until the annual is completed. A critical inspection item could be inspected at the first of the month and many hours and cycles accrued before the end of that month, then more time, months even, could elapse waiting for some part to arrive before the "annual" is at last completed in the aircraft logbook. By the time the next annual is due, the critical inspection item would be way overdue.
 
dtuuri said:
That wouldn't be legal, IMO, before I jump out of this thread as quick as in. Suppose some defect occurred in the area already buttoned up during such a flight. The the AI could later be signing off an unairworthy aircraft for return to service. Or suppose a time or cycle-limited inspection interval was completed early in the month, then the hours and cycles flown before the sign-off won't be reflected correctly and will exceed the allowable interval at the item's next inspection.
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If there's a part that close to end of cycle, steps would be taken to "re-set the clock", prior to going any further. I chose to start the annual inspection when/how I did, is due to the vacuum pump going out. Crying shame, too, because there is about 5 hours on the oil change, which get's done as part of the inspection. Mags got done last month, because the left mag quit working.
 
Ryanb said:
None of us here have any way of confirming anything that you say, because nobody knows who you are, other than someone who acts like an anonymous blowhard sitting behind a computer screen, who uses the alter ego from an 1800's gambler.
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All you really need to know you can get by viewing his posts, He's a tom hater, and will post any thing he thinks will re-rail any thread I started or comment in.
In doing so shows us who he really is.
 
Tom-D said:
Even you have come around to admitting any maintenance completed must be returned to service prior to flight.
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No "coming around" at all. I interpreted from Post #1 he or his APIA had signed off the work performed he mentioned in that first post--just as my example. I guess I give people more credit to following the rules than you. Nothing more. If you personally need more specific info on a public forum to make the same call--as you did--then so be it. Enough said on that part of the subject.
 
dtuuri said:
By the time the next annual is due, the critical inspection item would be way overdue.
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Depends. With a calendar inspection like an annual you have from the 1st till the 30th/31st to comply with the inspection per the FAA as the inspection is due at the "end of the month." But you are correct that if the inspection was started in January and not finished till June, technically those items inspected in January (and not reinspected in June) would be overflown come the next annual. However, if you stay within the 30 day window of the month the annual is due you're good.
 
Bell206 said:
...if you stay within the 30 day window of the month the annual is due you're good.
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Not if you put more time on the inspected components before the final sign-off. Say you inspect the gear, return to service and somebody cracks a trunnion before the final signature, unbeknownst to anybody. Then you finish the rest of the plane, sign it off and the next flight the thing collapses during taxi. You aren't going to look so good.
 
I believe this whole thread is a moot point, Because it only takes 4-6 hours to complete the whole annual. With the owners help, to open up and close, even less.

Why screw around with it for a month.?
 
Tom-D said:
Why screw around with it for a month.?
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I've seen a number of reasons. Owner-assisted aircraft, high flight times for a rental or similar Part 91 scenario, availability of an IA, etc. For the average weekend warrior probably not so much. It's actually more common than you think in certain circles.
 
bluerooster said:
If there's a part that close to end of cycle, steps would be taken to "re-set the clock", prior to going any further. I chose to start the annual inspection when/how I did, is due to the vacuum pump going out. Crying shame, too, because there is about 5 hours on the oil change, which get's done as part of the inspection. Mags got done last month, because the left mag quit working.
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Fixing stuff and changing oil are maintenance, nothing to do with an inspection. When/how you “chose to start the annual inspection” is meaningless, it is done when the IA makes the logbook entry. All we’ve been saying is that you don’t get half of the annual signed off, go fly for a week and then get the other half signed off. The certification occurs on the day the single entry is made. If your IA is comfortable letting you fly it around all week in the middle of his inspection that’s on him, most aren’t going to let you do that, myself included but that doesn’t mean you can’t find someone who will.
 
A real scenario, A&P-IA took a month to complete an annual, correct the discrepancies, signed off the annual on the first of the next month. He had done his Part 39 compliance about 30 days prior to the sign off, An emergence AD was issued about 20 days prior to the annual completion.

The FAA got involved because of inquiries about the AD, They called for the maintenance records for the aircraft to be Brought to FSDO, They discovered the IA's mistake, busted him and he lost his A&P for 60 days.. bye bye IA-ship for the next 3 years.

Screw around with Log entries if you like, but the FAA frowns on false or wrong entries.
 
Bell206 said:
I've seen a number of reasons. Owner-assisted aircraft, high flight times for a rental or similar Part 91 scenario, availability of an IA, etc. For the average weekend warrior probably not so much. It's actually more common than you think in certain circles.
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a fallacy in your post. High flight times is the best reason to not screw around and simply get it done and over with.
Part 91, there is no reason to play around a month, most A&P-IA are to busy to keep coming back to the same hangar, or tie up the hangar space that long.
I talked to 3 FBO maintenance centers 1 @. AWO, 1 @ BVS, and one @ Gig harbor all are booked out until next year.
Believe me you are not going to tie up their hangars doing a part here and a part later.
 
Tom-D said:
All you really need to know you can get by viewing his posts, He's a tom hater, and will post any thing he thinks will re-rail any thread I started or comment in.
In doing so shows us who he really is.
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Exactly right!
 
Silvaire said:
If your IA is comfortable letting you fly it around all week in the middle of his inspection that’s on him, most aren’t going to let you do that, myself included but that doesn’t mean you can’t find someone who will.
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I agree. There are different strokes for different folks. I wouldn't do it either, unless there was a darn good reason and I knew the aircraft and the owner. My licence is my livelihood.
 
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Tom-D said:
I believe this whole thread is a moot point, Because it only takes 4-6 hours to complete the whole annual. With the owners help, to open up and close, even less.
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An entire Cherokee in 4-6 hours? :eek:
 
Tom-D said:
Repairs are not a portion of the inspection, how long does it require to inspect and write a discrepancy list? Hand that to the owner and sign off the inspection.
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I will lube and service as I go. If I find an oil leak, I don't cowl the engine and then tell the owner there is an oil leak that needs to be fixed. If cables need replacing, I don't put the interior all back in. It gets discussed before I move on. Maybe that is not the Tom way of doing things, but it is mine, and seems to work just fine for me. :)
 
Tom-D said:
I believe this whole thread is a moot point, Because it only takes 4-6 hours to complete the whole annual. With the owners help, to open up and close, even less.

Why screw around with it for a month.?
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so maybe....you're not doin it right? :D
 
Tom-D said:
Believe me you are not going to tie up their hangars doing a part here and a part later.
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Correct it doesn't work in high volume shops as I mentioned back in Post 37. But in areas of minimal IA coverage or owner assist annuals it can be, in some cases, an owners only option to piecemeal the annual. The loss of IAs has been the biggest driver. As you said the shops in your area are booked for a year ahead. So what about the odd man out?
 
Bell206 said:
As you said the shops in your area are booked for a year ahead. So what about the odd man out?
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Why not a FSDO-approved progressive? Still, though, you can't (shouldn't) fly during any inspection phase. Had one on an AC-690B that effectively doubled (maybe it quadrupled?) the factory 100 hour inspection interval by alternating the inspection zones rather than all at once. Part 91, of course.
 
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4-6 hours to inspect a Cherokee. Tom's talking about the INSPECTION, not lubing or fixing things. A Hawaiian shirt, a flashlight and a mirror is all that's required. Especially with a known assisting owner on an airplane you are familiar with in regards to AD and SB compliance, you'd be hard pressed to find something to occupy six hours of your time.
 
dtuuri said:
Why not a FSDO-approved progressive?
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Still need an IA to sign off the progressive. So for instance if IA availability is hard to schedule for a single time in one month imagine trying to get that IA to show up monthly or at specific time blocks. Most IAs I knew wouldn't mess with PIPs and unless you are flying 50+ hours a month you really won't reap the benefits of a PIP. I'm hoping the feds move toward an owner mx category before the IA numbers get even lower and drive more people out of aviation all togather.
 
Bell206 said:
Still need an IA to sign off the progressive. .
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But they are not doing the inspection..... only supervising.

65.95
(2) Perform an annual, or perform or supervise a progressive inspection according to §§43.13 and 43.15 of this chapter.
 
OBTW,, I priced an annual inspection at 2 different FBOs, both were $2500.00 for the inspection and $125 per hour to repair discrepancies.

That in my humble opinion is what will kill GA.
 
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