NON A&P maintenance

Tom-D

Tom-D

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Tom-D
we have a two people here at OKH that are working on aircraft that are not A&Ps.

Now the question,
What happens when the insurance company finds out?
 
Depends...do you mean they are working legally (with A&P sign off) or not?
 
Tom-D said:
we have a two people here at OKH that are working on aircraft that are not A&Ps.

Now the question,
What happens when the insurance company finds out?
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If they are working for hire, and they have nothing that the FAA can pull, it may be on the aircraft owner to 'splain things.
 
If the work is signed off by IA there shouldn’t be a problem rt? There are a couple of kids working on my plane right now, I doubt they have A&P or any other cert but A&P/IA is hovering around like a hawk around them
 
What kind of work? I doubt the insurance much cares as long as the airplane has an annual/condition inspection, and the pilots are qualified to fly the airplane. I've never heard of a case where insurance denied a claim because a bolt wasn't safety wired causing an incident.
 
WannFly said:
If the work is signed off by IA there shouldn’t be a problem rt? There are a couple of kids working on my plane right now, I doubt they have A&P or any other cert but A&P/IA is hovering around like a hawk around them
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As long as they are supervised by an A&P while doing the work.
 
I think we all see wonky work going on in peoples hangars. From personal experiences the planes look like it. No body on the field will fly with them either. One guy painted his Mooney with 52 rattle cans. Looks like it too. Asked him about control surface balance, and his reply was “flys ok for me”.
 
What kind of work? I'd have to look in th' ol' rule book, but there's certain work I can do on my own.
 
Nonya, unless you are their daddy.
 
I am not in any way associated with theses guys. I'd bet no A&P is.
Aircraft in question, is no longer in the data base @FAA.

The question remains "What will any insurance company do when they find that the aircraft was worked on by some one who is not a properly certified mechanic".
 
So vague of an OP.

Are they:
Owners doing preventative maintenance?
Experimental Repairman working on their EAB?
LSA Repairmen working on LSA?
Mechanic assistants working under an A&P?
Repairman in a 145?

So many ways that it could be legal and therefore acceptable.
 
SkyDog58 said:
So vague of an OP.

Are they:
Owners doing preventative maintenance?
Experimental Repairman working on their EAB?
LSA Repairmen working on LSA?
Mechanic assistants working under an A&P?
Repairman in a 145?

So many ways that it could be legal and therefore acceptable.
Click to expand...

NONE of the above
 
There are a couple of these sorts around here. Everyone just shakes their heads. There are far more, however that are uninsured, and I’m sure these guys are as well.
 
Tom-D said:
I am not in any way associated with theses guys. I'd bet no A&P is.
Aircraft in question, is no longer in the data base @FAA.

The question remains "What will any insurance company do when they find that the aircraft was worked on by some one who is not a properly certified mechanic".
Click to expand...

I think it depends on why the insurance company is making an inquiry. I suppose you're suggesting a scenario of MIF leading to off-airport landing (or worse) -- I wonder if any insurance company has pursued such a line? All of the aviation claims I'm familiar with (sadly, too many) did not ask many details, just sent Rip Taylor with a bag of cash to throw at any remotely aggrieved party. I think the FAA deals with mechanics and the Insurance company deals with pilots, and I'm not sure those streams cross. (just a guess, I have no firsthand knowledge of a scenario -- but am very interested in an answer to OP's question)

If these miscreants are smart, they'll realize that IA numbers are public data, and pick one recently deceased for their log entries, thus mooting the issue. ;)
 
SkyDog58 said:
Experimental Repairman working on their EAB?
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A "repairman" certificate lets you do the condition inspection on one aircraft but is not required for maintenance and/or alteration. I do purd near all my own work - today I nearly finished welding up a replacement fuel tank (I ain't no A&P, and I ain't gots no repairman certificate). My A&P does the condition inspections.

Nothing in my insurance policy says I can't do my own work.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
A "repairman" certificate lets you do the condition inspection on one aircraft but is not required for maintenance and/or alteration. I do purd near all my own work - today I nearly finished welding up a replacement fuel tank (I ain't no A&P, and I ain't gots no repairman certificate). My A&P does the condition inspections.

Nothing in my insurance policy says I can't do my own work.
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True and I know that. But I guess some folks don't.
 
Tom-D said:
we have a two people here at OKH that are working on aircraft that are not A&Ps.

Now the question,
What happens when the insurance company finds out?
Click to expand...

Tom-D said:
I am not in any way associated with theses guys. I'd bet no A&P is.
Aircraft in question, is no longer in the data base @FAA.

The question remains "What will any insurance company do when they find that the aircraft was worked on by some one who is not a properly certified mechanic".
Click to expand...

Tom-D said:
NONE of the above
Click to expand...
What makes you think they have any insurance?
Not following maintenance regs,
Not following registration regs,
Maybe flying with no medical and maybe no insurance.

Maybe they'll fly under the radar for years, maybe they'll end up looking really stupid in the accident report.
Hopefully they will injure nobody but themselves.
 
Nothing will happen. I haven't found an insurance company that cares about things like this, even when a claim is made due to an accident and they have to pay.
 
Calling the forum lawyers!!!

14 CFR § 21.181 - Duration.
(1) Standard airworthiness certificates, special airworthiness certificates - primary category, and airworthiness certificates issued for restricted or limited category aircraft are effective as long as the maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alterations are performed in accordance with Parts 43 and 91 of this chapter and the aircraft are registered in the United States.

My reading is that if the maintenance is not performed by FARs then the airworthiness certificate is not effective. All insurance policies contain the language that the airworthiness certificate should be in full effect or no coverage, so after a non A&P mechanic maintenance the insurance provides no coverage, at least in flight. The next question what to do to make it airworthy again?
 
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P.S. This is why YOU should NEVER buy a certificated airplane:

§ 21.181 (a)(4) The duration of an experimental certificate issued for operating amateur-built aircraft, exhibition, air-racing, operating primary kit-built aircraft, or operating light-sport aircraft is unlimited, unless the FAA establishes a specific period for good cause.
 
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Isosceles said:
Calling the forum lawyers!!!

14 CFR § 21.181 - Duration.
(1) Standard airworthiness certificates, special airworthiness certificates - primary category, and airworthiness certificates issued for restricted or limited category aircraft are effective as long as the maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alterations are performed in accordance with Parts 43 and 91 of this chapter and the aircraft are registered in the United States.

My reading is that if the maintenance is not performed by FARs then the airworthiness certificate is not effective. All insurance policies contain the language that the airworthiness certificate should be in full effect or no coverage, so after a non A&P mechanic maintenance the insurance provides no coverage, at least in flight. The next question what to do to make it airworthy again?
Click to expand...

Your interpretation is correct. However, it has been my experience that the insurance companies never ask or even check to see if the airplane is actually airworthy before writing a check to cover a claim.
 
Isosceles said:
All insurance policies contain the language that the airworthiness certificate should be in full effect or no coverage
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FYI: Most "non-owner" policies state the aircraft needs a standard airworthiness cert in effect. On "owned aircraft" policies not so much. In order for this type of mx to be enforced by the policy holder it would need to be stated in the exclusion part of the policy.
Isosceles said:
The next question what to do to make it airworthy again?
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An annual inspection in most cases if the FAA got involved.
Isosceles said:
This is why YOU should NEVER buy a certificated airplane
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As stated above. Your only option is an ultralight.... or drone for "non-certified."
 
Non Compos Mentis said:
What makes you think they have any insurance?
Not following maintenance regs,
Not following registration regs,
Maybe flying with no medical and maybe no insurance.

Maybe they'll fly under the radar for years, maybe they'll end up looking really stupid in the accident report.
Hopefully they will injure nobody but themselves.
Click to expand...
I know who they are. Every one at the airport knows who they are and what they do.

quit asking questions, and answer the question.
 
Bell206 said:
As stated above. Your only option is an ultralight.... or drone for "non-certified."
Click to expand...

My bad. I meant non-type certificated. In particular, EA/B airworthiness certificate has "unlimited" duration. No requirement of the proper maintenance or even periodic condition inspections.
 
Tom-D said:
I am not in any way associated with theses guys. I'd bet no A&P is.
Aircraft in question, is no longer in the data base @FAA.

The question remains "What will any insurance company do when they find that the aircraft was worked on by some one who is not a properly certified mechanic".
Click to expand...
They're flying an unregistered aircraft (assuming it flys) that's being maintained by uncertified mechanics. What makes you think they have insurance?

Hope you're feeling better BTW.
 
Let he among you with no sin cast the first stone.

Must be nice to have no matters of your own to get in order and you have time and energy to worry about some strangers issues.
 
Once again thread is off the subject due to members who can't read and answer the question.
 
Since you know everything about what these guys are doing, why don’t you call their insurance company and ask them?
 
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