Death of the Corvette

I'm on my 7th daily driver. All 7 were manuals. When I was 19 and buying my first car everyone was trying to talk me out of it. Prior to that I only had a few lessons driving MT about a year or two earlier. Test drive was interesting :). I'm happy I didn't give in then and so far.

Before buying the last couple of cars I tried some automatics. Some were good cars but I couldn't get around the fact that transmission was doing something that I din't expect it to do. Not actually knowing what gear i'm in half of the time(you have to look) didn't help. PDK/DSG are awesome on the track. I remember taking Cayman R on the track with a PDK many years ago. It was dreamy then, i'm sure it's much better now. For street, it just doesn't work for me. My wife's last car was a dual clutch. Yeah, sometimes I played with paddles.. All that typically led to was me departing the next red light in a first gear forgetting that i need to shift it. Most of the time I put it in an auto mode.

I'm planning on keeping my current car for as long as I can since there is nothing out there MT that is even remotely appealing(or affordable) now. When I have to buy next one, i'm planning on avoiding this problem altogether. EV with 1 gear :)
 
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genna said:
Before buying the last couple of cars I tried some automatics. Some were good cars but I couldn't get around the fact that transmission was doing something that I din't expect it to do.
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This is a big thing for me, and somewhat ironically I tended to like the older 3 and 4 speed automatics more than the new-fangled computer-whatchamagigered 5-10 speed autos. With fewer gears I find they had a much simpler time picking a gear, and the mechanical kickdowns/etc. were more consistent than the computers. My first XJ-S V12 had a TH400 3-speed auto when I got it and it was tolerable.

Both of our Mercedes have steering wheel shifting (the GL550 has paddle shifters while the E55 has buttons). I do wish the shifting was faster on both of them. It's select up or down, wait half a second, it happens.

But still, even with that, it's not the same.
 
Let's see. I've owned (as my primary driver) 12 cars. (It's been over 42 years.) two of those were automatic. One was the car my wife brought to our marriage (which she didn't get to pick out or it would have been a manual!), one was a 1977 Olds Delta 88 which we bought from an estate sale in 1988 because we could afford it as a second car. All the rest have been manuals.
1969 Renault R-10
1973 Mercury Capri
*1979 Chevy Monza (wife's graduation present car)
1980 Ford Fiesta
1983 VW Rabbit GTI
1984 Honda Civic Wagon
*1977 Oldsmobile Delta 88
1985 Honda Civic Wagon
1990 Acura Integra
1999 Nissan Maxima
2006 Mini Cooper S
2017 Nissan 370Z

I much prefer a manual for the driving experience. It's not the fastest any more and I know that. But I love the level of interaction and the satisfaction of a well executed shift. Even in traffic, I don't mind.

John
 
As an interesting side note: Back when Ferrari was selling 430, it was strongly encouraging buyers to not order MT and go with an F1(SMG) transmission instead. Most obliged. You should look at what MT F430s fetch now on the used market.
jsstevens said:
Let's see. I've owned (as my primary driver) 12 cars. (It's been over 42 years.) two of those were automatic. One was the car my wife brought to our marriage (which she didn't get to pick out or it would have been a manual!), one was a 1977 Olds Delta 88 which we bought from an estate sale in 1988 because we could afford it as a second car. All the rest have been manuals.
1969 Renault R-10
1973 Mercury Capri
*1979 Chevy Monza (wife's graduation present car)
1980 Ford Fiesta
1983 VW Rabbit GTI
1984 Honda Civic Wagon
*1977 Oldsmobile Delta 88
1985 Honda Civic Wagon
1990 Acura Integra
1999 Nissan Maxima
2006 Mini Cooper S
2017 Nissan 370Z

I much prefer a manual for the driving experience. It's not the fastest any more and I know that. But I love the level of interaction and the satisfaction of a well executed shift. Even in traffic, I don't mind.

John
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Do you have some fetish for a Civic Wagon? ;)
 
It was a really good car. I put 160,000 miles on the first one. When I needed a new car, the salesman had an identical one that had just been traded in. That thing looked like it had just come off the showroom floor and only had ~30,000 miles on it (in 1992 or 3) so I bought it. I put 160,000 on it and then, after driving one (or the other) for 20 years, I was tired of it.
 
jsstevens said:
It was a really good car. I put 160,000 miles on the first one. When I needed a new car, the salesman had an identical one that had just been traded in. That thing looked like it had just come off the showroom floor and only had ~30,000 miles on it (in 1992 or 3) so I bought it. I put 160,000 on it and then, after driving one (or the other) for 20 years, I was tired of it.
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My first car was a 4th gen Civic(91). Hatchback though. My friend's dad had a wagon. They were odd looking.
 
genna said:
My first car was a 4th gen Civic(91). Hatchback though. My friend's dad had a wagon. They were odd looking.
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That they were. We nicknamed our first one the Ugly. But you could sit 4 adults in it reasonably comfortably and it would hold 3 bales of hay (and close the hatch). Not both at the same time...

It was fun to drive and sporty (not a super performer, but the CVCC engine was revvy and with a stick it was fun). And it got 35 mpg. (Well, not when I drove it around town because I was always pushing it...).
 
I bought my first car when I was 14 (school permit). 1986 VW Jetta, MT Diesel. It had 115,000 miles on it when I bought it. I sold it to my dad as a commuter when I finally bought my first new car. Odometer kept stopping and starting, so not real sure of mileage, but the odometer read 298,XXX when he started driving it.

He still has it and drives it. I would guess 350-400,000 miles on it by now. My boys always called it the racecar because of the manual transmission. Wasn't very fast, but it got 43 mpg and was fun to drive.
 
Well, ok, list of cars I've owned and driven (leaving out ones I didn't drive for whatever reason):

- 1982 Jaguar XJ-S: 5.3L V12/TH400 auto -> TKO manual
- 1969 Cadillac Fleetwood 75: 472 big block/TH400 auto
- 1997 GMC C2500: 6.5L TD/4L80E auto
- 2004.5 Ram 2500: Cummins 5.9/NV5600 manual
- 1985 Jaguar XJ-S: 5.3L V12/TH400 auto
- 1992 Lincoln Town Car: 4.6L V8/4R70 4-speed auto
- 1997 Range Rover 4.6 HSE: 4.6L V8/ZF 4HP24 auto
- 1992 Jaguar XJS: 5.3L V12/TKO manual (previous owner did the conversion)
- 1990 Jeep Cherokee: 4.0L I6/4-speed auto
- 1995 Suburban 2500: 454/4L80E auto
- 2000 Ford Excursion: 6.8L V10/4R100 auto
- 1993 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4: 3.0L V6/5-speed auto
- 1997 BMW 740iL: 4.4L V8/ZF 5HP30 auto
- 2003 BMW Z4: 3.0L I6/6-speed manual
- 2002 Ford Excursion: 6.8L V10/4R100 auto (should've kept the 2000 Excursion...)
- 2003 Mercedes E55 AMG: 5.4L V8 supercharged/5-speed auto
- 1989 Kenworth K100: Cummins L10/Eaton-Fuller 13-speed manual
- 2003 Ford F-350: PowerStroke 6.0L turbo diesel/5-speed auto
- 2017 Ram 3500: Cummins 6.7/G56 6-speed manual
- 2009 Mercedes GL550: 5.5L V8/7-speed auto

And I'm waiting to add the 1965 Shelby Cobra to the list, with the 351W (really 358 with the 0.040" overbore) and TKO-600.

The above list does not include vehicles I've driven that belong to other people, which would add a few more to the list.

Anyway, a significant blend of automatics and manuals, but automatics solidly winning in terms of number of vehicles. The automatics were always because I was settling, often because a manual was not available with that vehicle at all. And in some cases I had a plan to convert to a manual later like I did with my first car, but the realities of life meant that just didn't happen. I'm more coming to the realizing that the Ram is a "forever" truck, and for now anyway I'll need to build vehicles that match what I really want.
 
genna said:
As an interesting side note: Back when Ferrari was selling 430, it was strongly encouraging buyers to not order MT and go with an F1(SMG) transmission instead. Most obliged. You should look at what MT F430s fetch now on the used market.


Do you have some fetish for a Civic Wagon? ;)
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Those are indestructible almost and you can get sheets of plywood in them. Ha. It’s a crappy poor man’s pickup truck that gets 35 to the gallon, something Toyota should bring back someday again.

I’m not listing my cars. They’re pitiful. I buy crap. Honestly. But long lived crap.
 
Ok, I'll play too! A more-or-less chronological list:

1969 Toyota Corona Coupe
1968 BMW 1600
1973 Toyota Celica
1974 Toyota Celica (swapped in an 18RG twincam with dual sidedraft Mikunis)
1983 Mazda RX-7 (turned it into an SCCA ITA race car eventually)
1986 Toyota pickup (hauler for Tony 100-cc sprint kart)
1974 Porsche 914 2.0
1974 Porsche 914 5.7 (Chevrolet LS1 V-8 conversion)
1989 Porsche 944S2 (many happy Porsche club time trials)
1994 Mazda Miata (1.8-liter)
2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder
2006 Mazda Miata (STR autocross car with 255-section-width tires!)
2005 Chevrolet Corvette Z51
2002 BMW 325i (E46)
2012 Ford Mustang GT (track day car)
2017 BMW M240i
2015 Honda Fit
2016 Mazda Miata

All manual transmission vehicles with the exception of the Honda Fit. Interest in cars has ebbed somewhat since I built the airplane, but I'm digging my latest Miata....2350 lb. of tactile-reward, flingable fun. Had to throw on a set of springs and Koni yellow shocks, as body roll is pretty egregious in stock form.
 
RudyP said:
Absolutely! Hit me up if you come out to San Diego, I’ll do same next time in in Kansas City (my sister in law lives there).
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Wilco!
 
Well, if we are going to be listing things

1991 Civic Hatch DX 5sp MT
1997 Mitsu Eclipse GST Spider 5sp MT
2001 Audi S4 6sp MT
2001 Audi S4#2 6sp MT
2003 Infiniti G35 Coupe 6sp MT
2003 BMW M5 6sp MT
2011 Cadillac CTSV 6sp MT

There were other cars that were not daily or not "mine"... those were all auto actually
 
One of the disappointing things looking at my list is how many cars I compromised on with the automatic. I need to stop doing that.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
One of the disappointing things looking at my list is how many cars I compromised on with the automatic. I need to stop doing that.
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It's not going to get any easier going forward... Out of ~15 cars I bought for me (not counting my wife's) only one has been an automatic - the Macan GTS. All the others have been 3 pedal cars. I currently have 3 with manuals in the garage.
 
RudyP said:
It's not going to get any easier going forward... Out of ~15 cars I bought for me (not counting my wife's) only one has been an automatic - the Macan GTS. All the others have been 3 pedal cars. I currently have 3 with manuals in the garage.
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Three of the vehicles on the list were for my wife (all automatics), so there is that. She doesn't have the same hatred for autos that I do. In essentially all of other cases, it was some combination of being cheap, financial constraints, projects planned (to swap in a manual transmission) but never completed.

It is definitely going to get harder as time marches on in terms of availability.
 
'88 300ZX Turbo - auto
'90 Ford Taurus SHO - 5 spd
'00 Camaro Z28 - auto
'98 F-150 Supercab - auto
'95 300ZX TT - 5 spd
'08 F-150 SuperCrew - auto
'65 Corvette 327 - M22 4-spd
'07 GMC Sierra 1500 - auto
'07 Pontiac GP GXP - auto w/paddle shift

So, if you take out the trucks which were only available with auto transmissions (and I don't want a manual tranny in a truck anyway), then I'm pretty much 50% manual. Wife can drive a manual as well (the Corvette was in her possession when we married).
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Three of the vehicles on the list were for my wife (all automatics), so there is that. She doesn't have the same hatred for autos that I do. In essentially all of other cases, it was some combination of being cheap, financial constraints, projects planned (to swap in a manual transmission) but never completed.

It is definitely going to get harder as time marches on in terms of availability.
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Start importing from Europe. They still dominate heavily.
 
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NealRomeoGolf said:
Start importing from Europe. They still dominate heavily.
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Well, on my last trip to France (got home a week ago), the two rental cars were both automatics; first time that has happened. Every friend/family member we went too who had a car less than two years old had an automatic.
Basically, in the last four years (I have go to France pretty much annually now) I have seen a huge and fast switch away from manual transmissions.

Tim
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Start importing from Europe. They still dominate heavily.
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That thought has crossed my mind. It's become easier now with the 25 year rule being in effect, something that was long overdue. Of course that would still limit me to a 1994 or older (at this point) car.
 
tspear said:
Well, on my last trip to France (got home a week ago), the two rental cars were both automatics; first time that has happened. Every friend/family member we went too who had a car less than two years old had an automatic.
Basically, in the last four years (I have go to France pretty much annually now) I have seen a huge and fast switch away from manual transmissions.

Tim
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I drive an automatic in Germany because I didn't want to deal with learning new areas and ways of driving while also having to shift. It took some searching to get what I wanted in an AT. Every time I asked for an AT from the rental place I ended up with MT. All my employees have MTs. Those are my data points.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
That thought has crossed my mind. It's become easier now with the 25 year rule being in effect, something that was long overdue. Of course that would still limit me to a 1994 or older (at this point) car.
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I can pick you out a nice Porsche.
 
All of my cars have been manuals except the pickups and the 4x4

1964 Corvair Monza Coupe (M)
1967 Mustang (M)
1971 Toyota Carona (M)
1971 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe (M)
1972 Fiat 124 Spider (M)
1968 Chevrolet C10 pickup (M)
1972 Alfa Romeo Spider (M)
1967 Ford F100 pickup (M)
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6 (M)
1978 Ford F250 pickup (A)
1978 Alfa Romeo Sprint Veloce (M)
1981 Honda Accord (M)
1991 Alfa Romeo 164S (M)
1997 Ford F350 pickup (A)
1983 Ferrari 308 (M)
2001 Land Rover Discovery (A)

If my left knee ever goes out that will be the end of the Ferrari as it has a manual clutch with no hydraulics and I don’t think I’d mind a new Corvette being auto at all. I’d certainly give it a look-see at least.
 
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Silvaire said:
If my left knee ever goes out that will be the end of the Ferrari as it has a manual clutch with no hydraulics
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Switch to an older Ferrari with a crash box and slip shift it?
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I drive an automatic in Germany because I didn't want to deal with learning new areas and ways of driving while also having to shift. It took some searching to get what I wanted in an AT. Every time I asked for an AT from the rental place I ended up with MT. All my employees have MTs. Those are my data points.
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Then you have a larger sample size! :D

Tim
 
Picked up my rental car in Munich on Tuesday. I had ordered a midsize wagon with manual transmission. With Hertz that usually gets you a small Volvo. Based on the US origin of the reservation the agent figured I made a mistake and put me in a Ford minivan with auto transmission :-(
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I drive an automatic in Germany because I didn't want to deal with learning new areas and ways of driving while also having to shift. It took some searching to get what I wanted in an AT. Every time I asked for an AT from the rental place I ended up with MT. All my employees have MTs. Those are my data points.
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After college I spent a good bit of the summer in Brussels at my Godfather's. He was the widower of a very wealthy woman, and inherited her car (among other things). It was a 2000ish era Audi A6 with an automatic transmission - I want to say it was a 6-speed auto. But the smallest engine, 2.5L V6 or something.

He liked driving, but he liked feeling wealthy more and knew I also liked driving more than he cared about anymore (plus he had gotten very, very bad at it). So when I was there I was "Le Chauffeur Professional" as my mother said.

Anyway, point was, it was one of the only automatics I saw in Europe.

NealRomeoGolf said:
I can pick you out a nice Porsche.
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That would be very appealing albeit probably cost prohibitive. I just had to drop $14k on air conditioning yesterday, and of course the Cobra's going to cost some money to finish up... etc. etc.
 
Speaking of manual transmissions I was in the UK in June and had a manual rental car. It was my first time in a RHD vehicle as well but once I learned how to take off from a dead stop in 5th gear it wasn't so bad o_O
 
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I remember back around 1978, 79 I got a rental car. A Mustang with a stick. I didn't ask for it, it was just the luck of the draw.

Ok, Mustang II....barely had enough power to start off in 1st gear....
 
1960 Plymouth Savoy (3sp M)
1972 Mercedes Benz 280SE 4.5 (A)
1984 VW Jetta Wolfsburgh (5sp M)
1987 Acura Integra LS (5sp M)
1991 Nissan 300ZX (5sp M)
1992 Nissan Sentra SE-R (5sp M)
1993 VW Passat GLX VR6 (5sp M)
1996 Toyota Camry LE (A)
1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 (A)
1998 BMW Z3 2.8 (5sp M)
2001 Ford F-150 Supercrew XLT 4x4 (A)
2001 Mercedes Benz CLK430 Cabriolet (A)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX (A)
2006 Mercedes Benz E320 CDI (A)
2007 Ford Focus ST (5sp M)
2014 Ford Mustang GT 5.0 (6sp M)
2016 Ford Fusion SE 2.0 Ecoboost (A)
2017 Subaru Outback Limited 3.6R (A)
2019 Honda Civic Si (6sp M)

19 cars, 10 of them have been manual transmission.
 
Silvaire said:
All of my cars have been manuals except the pickups and the 4x4

1964 Corvair Monza Coupe (M)
1967 Mustang (M)
1971 Toyota Carona (M)
1971 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe (M)
1972 Fiat 124 Spider (M)
1968 Chevrolet C10 pickup (M)
1972 Alfa Romeo Spider (M)
1967 Ford F100 pickup (M)
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6 (M)
1978 Ford F250 pickup (A)
1978 Alfa Romeo Sprint Veloce (M)
1981 Honda Accord (M)
1991 Alfa Romeo 164S (M)
1997 Ford F350 pickup (A)
1983 Ferrari 308 (M)
2001 Land Rover Discovery (A)

If my left knee ever goes out that will be the end of the Ferrari as it has a manual clutch with no hydraulics and I don’t think I’d mind a new Corvette being auto at all. I’d certainly give it a look-see at least.
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It's true that Alfa stands for Always Looking For Another!! :) I've spent may happy miles driving Milanos, Spiders, a '74 2000 GTV and a 164 or two, and a memorable stint in a Bertone-bodied 2000 Sportiva coupe borrowed from the Museo Storico in Arese. Always on the classified-ads lookout for a nice 1750 or 2000 Berlina...would make a fun car for road rallies or getting ice cream. Did the California Melee (low $$$$ parody of the California Mille) years ago in the 914 2.0 and had a blast!!
 
Well, let's see if I can remember what I've owned (never mind the cars I drove before that)...

1954 Buick Special (great grandfather's last car, got it in 1972 with 34,340 miles on the clock). Dynaflow (dynaflush) transmission. Put it in Drive and it never shifted, pure torque converter.

1974 Subaru DL. 4 speed manual transmission

1966 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup. 4 speed manual transmission, but you only used 1st if you really needed it.

1981 Buick Skylark. 4 speed manual transmission. Got rid of it sometime in 1996/1997 by giving it to my brother-in-law with the stipulation that I didn't want to see it again.

1976 MG Midget. 4 speed manual transmission (and that Buick Skylark would out accelerate, out brake and out corner it). But my (then) 4 year old daughter loved it. What is it with blonds and convertibles? :D Only had it about a year (bought it in 1983 and sold it in 1984) and you did not walk up to it without a wrench or a screwdriver in your hand. Even made a radio traffic report in it when it blew a coolant hose all over the catalytic converter. Talk about steam all around the hood.

197x Datsun (I think it was older than the shift in name to Nissan, maybe it was a Nissan, too long ago to remember). 4 speed manual transmission

1988 1/2 Ford Escort. 5 speed manual transmission.

1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee. 4 speed automatic.

1999 Jeep Wrangler. 4 speed automatic transmission. Still have it, got the automatic because the Escort required 3 hands to drive. One hand to steer, one hand to shift gears and one hand to hold the microphone for the ham rig. I might put 1,000 miles a year on it these days.

2006 Jeep Commander. 4 speed automatic transmission. My wife's car.

2013 Ford Escape. 6 speed automatic transmission. My DD.

We still have the last three listed. Over 191,000 miles on the Wrangler, over 130,000 miles on the Commander and over 105,000 miles on the Escape. All still going strong. Obviously we keep cars a long time. Detroit marketing hates us. Too bad...
 
genna said:
Well, if we are going to be listing things

1991 Civic Hatch DX 5sp MT
1997 Mitsu Eclipse GST Spider 5sp MT
2001 Audi S4 6sp MT
2001 Audi S4#2 6sp MT
2003 Infiniti G35 Coupe 6sp MT
2003 BMW M5 6sp MT
2011 Cadillac CTSV 6sp MT

There were other cars that were not daily or not "mine"... those were all auto actually
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Were your B5 audis 2001 or 2001.5? My favorite car for a long time was a B5 S4 avant. Actually I preferred the RS4 avant but I dont think I had ever seen one in person..
 
NJP_MAN said:
Were your B5 audis 2001 or 2001.5? My favorite car for a long time was a B5 S4 avant. Actually I preferred the RS4 avant but I dont think I had ever seen one in person..
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B5. I didn't know there was 2001/2001.5 difference. Pretty sure both were 2001 as the first one i bought in 2000 and the second one in 2001 or 2, used. I liked the car(obviously i bought 2 of them), but neither lasted more than a year for different reasons not related to the car itself. After the second one i figured i have no luck with Audis and decided not to get one again.
 
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