Buying Fuel in Bulk = Savings $$$

Rebel Lord

Rebel Lord

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Rebel Lord
Ok guys I got an idea. At my airport the fuel costs are astronomical 5$+
So Im thinking about buying maybe a 500 - 1000 gallon fuel trailer on craigslist and buying fuel in bulk somewhere cheaper. I'm trying to figure out a way to buy directly from shell or chevron but if that does not work I can just drive to a airport on my next business trip that has fuel for around 3.45$ The best part is I'd have all the fuel I'd need for a year.

Assuming I average at least 100 hours a year at 14gph thats atleast 1400 gallons a year totaling 7000$ in fuel for a year. If I bought fuel for 3.45$ a gallon that would only be 4830$ that would be 2170$ in savings a year, plus i dont have to wait 15-30 minutes for a fuel truck to come.

I literally dont see any cons to my master money saving plans. Prove me wrong ;)

tf-aviation.png
 
How much is the trailer? Where are you going to store it? And I assume that your finances are such that paying ~$5K for a one-time annual purchase isn't an issue. For some (me included) that be a barrier to entry. While I can easily afford $7K in annual fuel, I'm doing it in $200 chunks vs all at once.
 
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well, one thing to consider is that the $$ price difference isn't going up in smoke, it's margin supporting your local airport that you fly out of. I can absolutely see the desire for cheaper fuel, but the money is supporting your airport. It might be worth looking at a talk with the FBO or airprot manager to see if you can get them to be more aggressive on the price to drive volume.
 
You buy your gas for $3.45. Then someone decides to pump like its going out of style, and it gets even cheaper. You're the chump who bought at $3.45 when the price went down to $2.45.

That, and I can't imagine the airport manager who's going to be copacetic with a giant private uninsured tank of avgas sitting on his airport.
 
Rebel Lord said:
I literally dont see any cons to my master money saving plans. Prove me wrong ;)
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Somewhere in the detailed paperwork on how the airport operates may be details about bulk fuel storage. Also check your local/regional/state environmental rules. For stationary storage, there likely will be something that says when you exceed a certain amount, additional items like secondary containment and fire suppression must be provided. For Mobil, there may be similar or different compliance items.

The airport authority may also have in their rules/bylaws/ ordinances/whatevers that discuss tenants having their own fuel on the field. Be sure to find those and be ready to comply.

Where to store your mobile tank might be a tripping point. For something that large, I doubt indoors will be allowed. The. If it is outdoors, how are you going to secure it against vandals and unauthorized use?

Purchasing in such "small" quantities from the bulk provider either may not happen or not provide the discounts you are hoping for. Keep in mind the FBO' are flowing thousands of gallons of avgas and jet fuel a week/month, which gets them the lowest price for their ops. You purchasing just 500 a month or two months might not get their attention or return phone call. 100LL isn't like car and truck fuels where the consumption warrants lots of providers who need to scramble for bulk customers and there are many bulk providers willing to sell small quantities.
 
MIFlyer said:
well, one thing to consider is that the $$ price difference isn't going up in smoke, it's margin supporting your local airport that you fly out of. I can absolutely see the desire for cheaper fuel, but the money is supporting your airport. It might be worth looking at a talk with the FBO or airprot manager to see if you can get them to be more aggressive on the price to drive volume.
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steingar said:
You buy your gas for $3.45. Then someone decides to pump like its going out of style, and it gets even cheaper. You're the chump who bought at $3.45 when the price went down to $2.45.

That, and I can't imagine the airport manager who's going to be copacetic with a giant private uninsured tank of avgas sitting on his airport.
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tsts4 said:
How much is the trailer? Where are you going to store it? And I assume that your finances are such that paying ~$5K for a one-time annual purchase isn't an issue. For some (me included) that be a barrier to entry. While I can easily afford $7K in annual fuel, I'm doing it in $200 chunks vs all at once.
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I have a pretty decent slice of land I can keep the trailer at covered and the FBO is a corporate jet center who probably dont care too much about me. I also dont see the price of Avgas going to 2.45 anytime soon.
 
Ok after doing 5 seconds of research I figured out im not a clever as I thought. I need a CDL with hazmat to transport that much fuel :( Its still might be worth it in the long run but I'll do some more research.
 
Avgas doesn't last forever. Under most conditions, the shelf life for 100LL is about a year, so what happens if you end up not utilizing all of the fuel and it goes bad? Whatever savings you accounted for in the beginning are now deducted by the amount of fuel you have in the tank that's no longer useable.
 
Have you spoken to your fbo about working out a price? If you are actually buying 1400 gallons a year from them, they'd probably give you a break.
 
Ryanb said:
Avgas doesn't last forever. Under most conditions, the shelf life for 100LL is about a year, so what happens if you end up not utilizing all of the fuel and it goes bad? Whatever savings you accounted for in the beginning are now deducted by the amount of fuel you have in the tank that's no longer useable.
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And the cost of disposing of the unusable gas... you can't just dump it out, you know. It's leaded gasoline, good luck.
 
Groundpounder said:
Have you spoken to your fbo about working out a price? If you are actually buying 1400 gallons a year from them, they'd probably give you a break.
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That was my thought. When I was a teenager I worked at a gas station. We had a couple of fleet clients that would pre-pay for a year's worth of gas at a time. We gave them a substantial discount. Their drivers came, we filled them up and ran it against their account. When they ran out of their credit, they paid another lump sum. I forget how big the discount was, but it was sizable.
 
I've often dreamed this dream even for mogas. Start a co-op. Buy in bulk when it's cheap.

But what if it goes up, get contaminated, stolen, burns the entire town down.

It's a nice dream.
 
Rebel Lord said:
Ok after doing 5 seconds of research I figured out im not a clever as I thought. I need a CDL with hazmat to transport that much fuel :( Its still might be worth it in the long run but I'll do some more research.
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You should be able to haul 166 gallons, legally. Depending on what and how much you fly, that could last you a bit. If you have a pick up truck, they have bulk tanks that fit on the bed for fueling off-road equipment. Then you just have to hope you don't crash with 166 gallons of 100ll RIGHT behind you.
 
Fiveslide said:
You should be able to haul 166 gallons, legally. Depending on what and how much you fly, that could last you a bit. If you have a pick up truck, they have bulk tanks that fit on the bed for fueling off-road equipment. Then you just have to hope you don't crash with 166 gallons of 100ll RIGHT behind you.
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It’s 119 gallons apparently
 
Rebel Lord said:
I literally dont see any cons to my master money saving plans
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After being in the fuel hauling business, I don't see any pros.

Just to start.

Think insurance, unless your brother owns an insurance business....:lol: Years ago I had a race fuel business and the pickup with a trailer had to have a million dollar policy. Didn't matter if the trailer was attached or not. Trailer had a 500 gallon capacity and the pickup carried two 150 gallon tanks. You don't want to know how much insurance the 18 wheelers had to have. It was much easier on the wallet to get 1500-2000 gallon bobtail transports insured.

To obtain and maintain a CDL you may be required to have a DOT medical card. Depends on weight. (of the vehicle/load, not the operator) I don't remember if it is payload total capacity of over 10,001 pounds or vehicle and load gross weight.

I would look at trying to obtain a pre-paid discount.
 
Rebel Lord said:
I literally dont see any cons to my master money saving plans. Prove me wrong ;)
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In many if not most states you will have a raft of federal and state transportation, storage, and environmental safety regulations to comply with, including constructing containment facilities and maintaining appropriate fire fighting equipment. And then there would be insurance. No airport would let you move this thing on their property. But good luck!

Most airports are very willing to negotiate fuel discounts for volume purchase commitments.
 
I carried a 100 gallon tank in my pickup for 25 years. I removed it and recently sold it now that I have a tank at the house. The 119 gallon limit for a private guy is technically correct but often not enforced.
 
when I was hanging around an airport 20 years I remember a guy with a pickup truck wit the normal fuel tank for off road equipment you see for sale at places like tractor supply, filling his high wing aircraft, but no idea what fuel, or even aircraft, but just thought it was odd, but unless you have needs that your place cant meet, first thing to pop in my mind would be some experimental, running 2 cycle, & you premix & haul it there to fill it up, otherwise give them business, inquire about discounts, & I am sure they will give more perks to you, than if you try to bring your own fuel in to cut costs, I had issue one time for being cheap with fuel, with my first wife, I brought gas cans to fill our boat up, it had a built in tank, and I built a special filling adapter, & we kept it docked at marina, well that marina evicted us, said we might spill fuel in the water, but wanted us to pay their prices for fuel, & you still filled up at docks, giving potential for spills, but they didn't want to discuss that or all the people carrying portable 6 gallon boat fuel tanks to hook up. end result I had to find another marina, to keep boat docked at, & new place was actually better.
 
Rebel Lord said:
Ok guys I got an idea. At my airport the fuel costs are astronomical 5$+
So Im thinking about buying maybe a 500 - 1000 gallon fuel trailer on craigslist and buying fuel in bulk somewhere cheaper. I'm trying to figure out a way to buy directly from shell or chevron but if that does not work I can just drive to a airport on my next business trip that has fuel for around 3.45$ The best part is I'd have all the fuel I'd need for a year.

Assuming I average at least 100 hours a year at 14gph thats atleast 1400 gallons a year totaling 7000$ in fuel for a year. If I bought fuel for 3.45$ a gallon that would only be 4830$ that would be 2170$ in savings a year, plus i dont have to wait 15-30 minutes for a fuel truck to come.

I literally dont see any cons to my master money saving plans. Prove me wrong ;)

tf-aviation.png
Click to expand...


That has to be the worst money-saving plan. All kinds of things can go wrong, from fuel contamination, tank corrosion, leaks, fire, or an explosion that takes down an entire row of hangars. Even if you buy the tank from a reputable company, all of these bad things can still happen, but buying from craiglist amplifies that even further.
 
Go for it!

Though it wouldn’t be the first hair brained money saving scheme to either cost more money in the long run or end in disaster or both. But hey, it’s your decision and I’m sure with your vast knowledge and experience level that you might just be able to pull it off.

:frown2:
 
Wasn’t this an episode of “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia”?

Edit: Yes it was.

 
I can see the advantages of such an idea, but there are many drawbacks. And being based at an airport with fuel service offsets those advantages.

Now if you you are based at an airport with no fuel service, like my friend that lives in an airpark, I might encourage some kind of similar arrangement. We used to have a member here who regularly described his mobile fuel tank and how he used it quite successfully.
 
I buy 20-30,000 gallons of diesel fuel a week for our construction company and it doesn't have huge savings over the pump prices. Also, ive seen invoices for just a few hundred gallons that were actually more than pump pricing because the cost of delivery was greater than the discount by far. The savings comes in quantity and convenience. You could store a 1000 gallon tank at your house and transport the fuel to the airport in a smaller (no need for HAZMAT) fuel tank to the airport, similar to the way remote helicopter pilots work away from a airport if you really wanted to. I would not do it for the risk of contamination, spoilage, theft, etc.

you could hedge the price by trading futures if you really wanted to lock in a price, you'd just need to up the quantites a bit.

But hey, if you truly want to do it, give it a shot
 
I'd also bet that you wouldn't actually save as much as you think by purchasing in bulk, unless you'd be able to order it straight from the supplier and by-pass the airport completely.

Also, just for kicks and giggles, I'd be curious to know how much the airport actually makes in profit per gallon on 100LL fuel. I'd bet that it isn't very much.
 
Ryanb said:
I'd also bet that you wouldn't actually save as much as you think by purchasing in bulk, unless you'd be able to order it straight from the supplier and by-pass the airport completely.

Also, just for kicks and giggles, I'd be curious to know how much the airport actually makes in profit per gallon on 100LL fuel. I'd bet that it isn't very much.
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We are lucky if we can make $0.35-0.40 per gallon profit and stay competitive with regional airports. Fuel sales, in part, have to pay the bills. Keeping up the infrastructure (runway, taxiways, lighting, hangars, AWOS, obstruction remediation, etc. etc.) is not cheap. We are not the cheapest nor the most expensive retail price for avgas in our region. And you can't get the best pricing on delivered avgas unless you can store an entire truckload. If we could acquire a larger fuel farm, we could lower prices or make a little more profit.

When the Cessna Pilots Society was at our airfield for a week-long fly-in, we gave them a substantial fuel discount, as they were buying fuel for daily fly-outs. It is almost always possible to get a volume discount, as we can make up the loss of profit per gallon with guaranteed extra volume, and everyone gets to fly more.

Before everyone complains too much about fuel prices, remember that many airports can't stay open if they don't generate income. Support your local airport! I've spent a decade on an airport commission (which is an advisory body for our municipal board of trustees) and up close and personal it is not easy to make ends meet each year. When you have millions of dollars of infrastructure, you are going to have maintenance and replacement costs. The taxpayers are not an infinite sink of money. (Although some municipalities in our state apparently think charging the public astronomical figures annually for a GA airport is acceptable.) We have for the most part come close to being self-sufficient for almost two decades, but in the last year or so have required some taxpayer assistance to stay in the black. Fuel sales (Jet-A and avgas) are important to keeping us in operation. Everyone wants something for free, but some things, like airports, are anything but free.
 
Hmmm...?

Avgas full loads are 8,800 gallons. Fixed storage tanks need "headroom" for vapor recovery, so I think it's normal to install 12,000 gallon above-ground tanks. I recall 10,800? was the minimum for a full load, but you don't order when you're empty, you order when you're low, so 12K was "the number".

Half-loads of 4,400 gallons incur a transport penalty of appx $0.06/gallon. Our jobber wouldn't do less than half loads, as the transport penalty became ridiculous.

...so what on earth are you planning to do with a 500-1000 gallon trailer? You'll need a dozen of them, and a super patient trucker to fill them each like he's watering a garden :D

I think fire code needs you to park the trailers a certain distance away from any structure (100'? 250'?) and yeah, the max gallons are real low for hazmat requirements if you go on public roads. We moved our fuel truck and 800 gallons of avgas from one airport to another by asking for a DMV trip permit and hoping we did not get pulled over. We didn't. The fine probably would have been astronomical.

It can be done. You might save money if you can move the fuel. I recall AVFuel was one of the more lenient jobbers who would sell to darn near anyone. Of course they were one of the higher priced suppliers also IIRC. The other ones wanted multi-year commitments and hope to sell you hundreds of thousands of gallons. Often they'll lease you the tank on a skid. Those skids are about 80 grand, but they're permitted and "ready to go", just add electricity and a phoneline or ethernet for credit card clearing.

Similar to planes drying out their fuel bladders when partially full, apparently storage tanks can grow some sort of nasty fungus if they're mostly empty. Would be a real bummer to spoil a few thousand gallons of avgas that way.


...I'd find a guy who already has the tank and infrastructure in place that nobody wants to buy fuel from, and ask him to let you buy a portion of his next load "prepaid". Of course, all of the normal aviation caveats that go with "block time rental" apply here doubly.

Good luck?

- Mike
ex-Chevron 100LL merchant :)
 
lancie00 said:
I just fly to the airport next door and buy from the self serve pump for $1/gallon less. Just an excuse to fly more.
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Yep. How much fuel would it take to recoup the money spent on the trailer and everything else you need? My wife wanted chickens for "fresh eggs" and since I grew up with chickens, I told her no. By the time a coop was built, feeders, waterers, etc, we could buy a lifetime of eggs for the money spent on keeping them.


She still got her chickens. :rolleyes:
 
chemgeek said:
We are lucky if we can make $0.35-0.40 per gallon profit and stay competitive with regional airports. Fuel sales, in part, have to pay the bills. Keeping up the infrastructure (runway, taxiways, lighting, hangars, AWOS, obstruction remediation, etc. etc.) is not cheap. We are not the cheapest nor the most expensive retail price for avgas in our region. And you can't get the best pricing on delivered avgas unless you can store an entire truckload. If we could acquire a larger fuel farm, we could lower prices or make a little more profit.

When the Cessna Pilots Society was at our airfield for a week-long fly-in, we gave them a substantial fuel discount, as they were buying fuel for daily fly-outs. It is almost always possible to get a volume discount, as we can make up the loss of profit per gallon with guaranteed extra volume, and everyone gets to fly more.

Before everyone complains too much about fuel prices, remember that many airports can't stay open if they don't generate income. Support your local airport! I've spent a decade on an airport commission (which is an advisory body for our municipal board of trustees) and up close and personal it is not easy to make ends meet each year. When you have millions of dollars of infrastructure, you are going to have maintenance and replacement costs. The taxpayers are not an infinite sink of money. (Although some municipalities in our state apparently think charging the public astronomical figures annually for a GA airport is acceptable.) We have for the most part come close to being self-sufficient for almost two decades, but in the last year or so have required some taxpayer assistance to stay in the black. Fuel sales (Jet-A and avgas) are important to keeping us in operation. Everyone wants something for free, but some things, like airports, are anything but free.
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In my OP I said I wanted to drive to a smaller airport in the next county and buy the fuel at the pump there if I couldn’t ge tit from bulk supplier, I’d support a small airport of the large Jet FBOs at my field.

Timbeck2 said:
Yep. How much fuel would it take to recoup the money spent on the trailer and everything else you need? My wife wanted chickens for "fresh eggs" and since I grew up with chickens, I told her no. By the time a coop was built, feeders, waterers, etc, we could buy a lifetime of eggs for the money spent on keeping them.


She still got her chickens. :rolleyes:
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Two years about which would be worth it.
 
Timbeck2 said:
My wife wanted chickens for "fresh eggs" and since I grew up with chickens, I told her no.
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I grew up with chickens, so I understand....:lol:

My wife grew up with chickens as well and still wants them....:nonod:
 
I do shop gas when x-ctry - even in a 172, a buck or two a gal on several fill ups is meaningful. My home drome is usually fairly competetive, but when they are not, I top off cheaper elsewhere - not in the business of "supporting" my airport; I prefer to "support" competetion. . .
 
Rebel Lord said:
Ok guys I got an idea. At my airport the fuel costs are astronomical 5$+
So Im thinking about buying maybe a 500 - 1000 gallon fuel trailer on craigslist and buying fuel in bulk somewhere cheaper. I'm trying to figure out a way to buy directly from shell or chevron but if that does not work I can just drive to a airport on my next business trip that has fuel for around 3.45$ The best part is I'd have all the fuel I'd need for a year.

Assuming I average at least 100 hours a year at 14gph thats atleast 1400 gallons a year totaling 7000$ in fuel for a year. If I bought fuel for 3.45$ a gallon that would only be 4830$ that would be 2170$ in savings a year, plus i dont have to wait 15-30 minutes for a fuel truck to come.

I literally dont see any cons to my master money saving plans. Prove me wrong ;)

tf-aviation.png
Click to expand...

Sounds totally nuts to me to buy a trailer and haul fuel. On your route home, land and top off at an airport with cheaper fuel.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Yep. How much fuel would it take to recoup the money spent on the trailer and everything else you need? My wife wanted chickens for "fresh eggs" and since I grew up with chickens, I told her no. By the time a coop was built, feeders, waterers, etc, we could buy a lifetime of eggs for the money spent on keeping them.


She still got her chickens. :rolleyes:
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first, nothing you buy in most grocery stores compares to taste, that's worth a bit there, plus you know what been fed to them as well as injected. not to mention healthier.

next for costs, you can do it dirt cheap, if your poor, I have a friend that raises them, his "coop" was a free camper that had water damage & no title, pulled it home with a farm tag, gutted & put some boxes made from scrap pallets, outside he found free dog kennels, used the side panels to stand upright, & connected together, free harbor freight tarps connected together for shade over his area, a kiddie pool for water, & sometimes he uses a section of gutter pipe for a water trough when he lets them multiply, he also uses a down spout from roof to help keep water filled since we have so much rain in last few years, I know I am forgetting a bunch, but yeah dirt cheap. he does have to buy feed though.

at 1 time I raised rabbits, built everything from scrap from behind a few stores, & I had 5 hutches, mostly built from planks from pallets, display stands, & shelving, & rain / sun tarp over lids was outside price sign store had used between poles, nothing but nails and waterers to buy, & I made my own food bowls out of metal scrap & welded it.
 
My hangar has a 500 gallon tank installed right outside the door. I have the local 100LL distributor add fuel as I need it for a much better price than the credit card pump up a few lots on the strip. My insurer for the house walked around and took pics and took no exception to the tank. Maybe you guys need to add a fixed tank and ask the local distributor of 100LL what the delivered price would be to fill your tank. :) No more sloshing fuel in my pickup. No more liability concerns. No more insurance concerns (because they exclude transported fuel!). I never have any excuse not to have the ideal fuel load when I leave home. Just sayin'!
 
Stewartb said:
My hangar has a 500 gallon tank installed right outside the door. I have the local 100LL distributor add fuel as I need it for a much better price than the credit card pump up a few lots on the strip. My insurer for the house walked around and took pics and took no exception to the tank. Maybe you guys need to add a fixed tank and ask the local distributor of 100LL what the delivered price would be to fill your tank. :) No more sloshing fuel in my pickup. No more liability concerns. No more insurance concerns (because they exclude transported fuel!). I never have any excuse not to have the ideal fuel load when I leave home. Just sayin'!
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Lucky
 
Timbeck2 said:
Yep. How much fuel would it take to recoup the money spent on the trailer and everything else you need? My wife wanted chickens for "fresh eggs" and since I grew up with chickens, I told her no. By the time a coop was built, feeders, waterers, etc, we could buy a lifetime of eggs for the money spent on keeping them.


She still got her chickens. :rolleyes:
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Yep... Mine too... For 6 (yes, six) hens... Sorry for the topic drift....
b6157197f2f75e23a4ccf6b501785b79.jpg
 
Another option is to add an auxiliary tank to your plane. Granted that won’t help with bulk discounts. However, you can load up when you come across cheap fuel. Also has the added benefit of increasing the plane’s range.
 
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