What hill will you die on?

Sac Arrow

Sac Arrow

Touchdown! Greaser!
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May 11, 2010
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Snorting his way across the USA
Nevermind. This thread can't end well. Mods feel free to delete it. A friend of mine was just convicted of DUI for sleeping in her parked car in her driveway after a party.

Sorry, but I really have come to deplore the American justice system. It has become something none of us wanted it to ever be.
 
How did the car get there?

If you don't like ours, take a look at Canada and you'll feel better. But in part, I agree.
 
give it time....more judges than ever were just nominated.

so....this is the government we asked for.....o_O
 
Were the keys in the ignition? Running? In the back seat? Devil is in the details.
 
Sac Arrow said:
It never left.
Click to expand...
I'm fairly surprised, I don't see how the D applies. But it makes little sense to complain without figuring out why it's happened, and that's the part no one wants to talk about. There is definitely a trajectory with little in the way to stop it. The problem isn't with the justice system. It's with a culture that has abandoned any sense of objectivity in determining right and wrong. When that is lost, blind commitment to an arbitrary ethic becomes the norm.
 
I’m with Sac. Our justice system is wack and for a hundred reasons. Eminent domain out of control. 4th out the window. What’s up with the Patriot Act? Private businesses allowed to run roughshod over everyone because they line the pockets of...nevermind.
 
If that’s not the biggest crock of **** I’ve ever heard, I don’t know what is. I’m with you, the justice system is so flawed it’s not even funny.

Murderer’s and child molestors get a slap on the wrist and then get tossed back into society. It’s sickening and only getting worse.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Nevermind. This thread can't end well. Mods feel free to delete it. A friend of mine was just convicted of DUI for sleeping in her parked car in her driveway after a party.

Sorry, but I really have come to deplore the American justice system. It has become something none of us wanted it to ever be.
Click to expand...
Nearly identical thing happened to a KC City Council member. He tried hard to stay positive;

https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article229123524.html
 
People have been arrested for DUI while riding a horse. On a crowded freeway. People have been killed by hitting a horse with their car.

What are the details.??
 
Last winter taking the boys to school there was a car around the block driven up in the snow between sidewalk and curb just past the driveway. Running, but no one around, figured they were in getting a shovel I’d be back that way in 15 mins and give em a hand.


Came back nothing had changed! Pretty sure someone was inside sleeping one off and gunna have a real whisky tango foxtrot moment when they wake up.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Nevermind. This thread can't end well. Mods feel free to delete it. A friend of mine was just convicted of DUI for sleeping in her parked car in her driveway after a party.

Sorry, but I really have come to deplore the American justice system. It has become something none of us wanted it to ever be.
Click to expand...

Her driveway? As in the party was at her house and she crashed in her car in her driveway? Convicted, not just arrested, but convicted? Jury trial? Did she get a Lawyer? What’s the “hill to die on?” Is she thinking of appealing it?
 
You don't even have to be in the car. In some states, walking toward the car with your keys in your hand is enough to prove intent.
Be careful out there.
 
Personally I give no quarter to people who drink and drive, none at all, but sitting/sleeping in a car is not driving. Agree some of the devil is in the details. I know that has happened around here a few times and they do prosecute.
 
On the incident I linked to, the guy was able to convince a judge the cops had no probable cause for arrest. Asleep in a car, not driving, no evidence there had been any driving, etc.
 
Matthew said:
On the incident I linked to, the guy was able to convince a judge the cops had no probable cause for arrest. Asleep in a car, not driving, no evidence there had been any driving, etc.
Click to expand...

Yeah, seems the girl wasn't represented very well in trial. Sleeping in a car on private property? I used to drive my Tacoma or Jeep drunk, really plastered, all the time... On privately owned 300 acres of trails with a swimming hole that was once host to motorcycle race on ESPN. That's illegal?

I used to sleep it off in a cave, not in my vehicles.
 
KS just enacted a law on July 1 where you will lose you license for a year for refusing a Field Sobriety Test (the beside the road acrobatic type). They confiscate your license on the spot. You can refuse the FST and not get ticked, but if you refuse it, you will lose you license. I am reading various the commentaries on the law, and consensus is the loss of license applies even if you requested a objective blood or urine test in place of the subjective FST.

https://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article232092952.html

Also, they state, “Drivers who refuse to be tested can still be prosecuted for a DUI based on other evidence.” It sounds like it could be a real catch 22 for pilots
 
And some states are lowering the BAC limit to .04. I would love to see some data on fatalities caused by people with a BAC between .04 and .08 and compare it to the overall fatality rate. I bet there is little or no difference.
 
Fiveslide said:
Yeah, seems the girl wasn't represented very well in trial. Sleeping in a car on private property?
Click to expand...

Maybe it helps that the guy I mentioned is also a law professor. But State law varies, and apparently in KS, DUI is:

>>>
Kansas state law defines DUI as “operating or attempting to operate” any vehicle with a blood alcohol concentration of .08 percent or higher, or doing so under the influence of alcohol or drugs “to a degree that renders the person incapable of safely driving.”
<<<

The judge dropped the case for "insufficient evidence". Possibly since there was no evidence to back up the DUI charge based on the details of the law.

https://www2.ljworld.com/news/publi...nst-ku-law-instructor-kcmo-mayoral-candidate/
 
Gerhardt said:
Our justice system is wack and for a hundred reasons
Click to expand...

More like a couple hundred billion reasons. There are so many crazy people out there causing this justice system to be somewhat of what it is.

DUI laws aren't out there because people don't drink and drive, we all know that.
The decision making on the other hand...both about when to/not to enforce, as well as whose opinion counts and whose doesn't when making laws, is an entirely different matter.

Small recent example:
I was driving home from out of town about 2 months ago.
Car swerving from one ditch to the other on a two lane interstate over 80mph.
I stayed close enough to get make, model, license # and reported to 911. Gave them my cell # and said have the officer call me and I'll report any turn offs, etc.
Followed this guy for over 30 minutes until I went a separate way.

Never heard a word from anyone. As if they simply didn't care. If they made it home with/without killing themselves or someone else it would be lucky.

Now I hear the story in this thread? Hilarious...
 
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Axtel4 said:
KS just enacted a law on July 1 where you will lose you license for a year for refusing a Field Sobriety Test (the beside the road acrobatic type). They confiscate your license on the spot. You can refuse the FST and not get ticked, but if you refuse it, you will lose you license. I am reading various the commentaries on the law, and consensus is the loss of license applies even if you requested a objective blood or urine test in place of the subjective FST.

https://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article232092952.html

Also, they state, “Drivers who refuse to be tested can still be prosecuted for a DUI based on other evidence.” It sounds like it could be a real catch 22 for pilots
Click to expand...

I saw those headlines the other day, all the news outlets reference the same Wichita newspaper.

Here's another source:
http://www.esubulletin.com/statehou...cle_7251d462-3021-11e9-874a-d7d4ad69b8a2.html

And here's the law:
http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2019_20/measures/documents/hb2104_00_0000.pdf

I *think* this law refers to the blood/breath tests *after* the field sobriety test gives LE probable cause for arrest.

>>>
"Any person who operates or attempts to operate a vehicle within this state may be requested, subject to the provisions of this article, to submit to one or more tests of the person's blood, breath, urine or other bodily substance to determine the presence of alcohol or drugs.
...
One or more tests may be required of a person when, at the time of the request, a law enforcement officer has probable cause to believe the person has committed a violation ..."
<<<

In no way am I a lawyer, but I think the way it works is the cops request a FST based on a reasonable suspicion. If you fail, you have given them probable cause, and then the next round of tests begin, and this is the one that I think has a new penalty.

There was something with the way the previous law was written that made it possible refuse that test, the one that "implied consent" allows, with minimal penalty or the State SC said it was unconstitutional. I think this new law was written to fix that.

There are lawyers that say you should refuse the FST since it's essentially nothing more than the driver giving evidence against himself. I don't know if this new law changes that.
 
It is a have and have not thing as well. Guy that can afford to hire a big shot law firm gets out of whatever with a slap on the wrist. Poor sucker trying to get by just goes to court and gets nailed to the wall.

Good thing we are all rich pilots. :rolleyes:
 
Gerhardt said:
I’m with Sac. Our justice system is wack and for a hundred reasons. Eminent domain out of control. 4th out the window. What’s up with the Patriot Act? Private businesses allowed to run roughshod over everyone because they line the pockets of...nevermind.
Click to expand...
Bravo !!!
 
Sac Arrow said:
Nevermind. This thread can't end well. Mods feel free to delete it. A friend of mine was just convicted of DUI for sleeping in her parked car in her driveway after a party.

Sorry, but I really have come to deplore the American justice system. It has become something none of us wanted it to ever be.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. I watch the traffic accidents in the news pretty closely, DAs seem to love putting drivers on trial, whether or not there is evidence to do so.

Seriously! Do you have traffic tickets record? Were you breaking the law during the accident? Did someone die or get seriously injured? It applies to kids driving as well.

One of my friends is drowning in debt from a fatal car accident involving his dead daughter.
 
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bnt83 said:
I agree with you. I watch the traffic accidents in the news pretty closely, DAs seem to love putting drivers on trial, whether or not there is evidence to do so.

Seriously! Do you have traffic tickets record? Were you breaking the law during the accident? Did someone die or get seriously injured? Just might need a lawyer.
Click to expand...

Recently someone I know ran a red light, t boned a car. No apparent serious injuries although the other driver and passenger went from wanting to leave the scene (no insurance initially but apparently had some by the time the cops showed up) to having some complaints about aches and pains but everyone signed off and left after they were checked out. Driver was ticketed with careless driving with bodily injury a class one misdemeanor in the state they were in instead of a failure to yield to a traffic device. So now this person (with little money) needs to get an attorney to try to get this reduced because they don't want a criminal record over a traffic accident following them their whole life. I think they do the careless driving because it allows the judge to assign restitution. The driver has insurance.
 
Skyrys62 said:
More like a couple hundred billion reasons. There are so many crazy people out there causing this justice system to be somewhat of what it is.

DUI laws aren't out there because people don't drink and drive, we all know that.
The decision making on the other hand...both about when to/not to enforce, as well as whose opinion counts and whose doesn't when making laws, is an entirely different matter.

Small recent example:
I was driving home from out of town about 2 months ago.
Car swerving from one ditch to the other on a two lane interstate over 80mph.
I stayed close enough to get make, model, license # and reported to 911. Gave them my cell # and said have the officer call me and I'll report any turn offs, etc.
Followed this guy for over 30 minutes until I went a separate way.

Never heard a word from anyone. As if they simply didn't care. If they made it home with/without killing themselves or someone else it would be lucky.

Now I hear the story in this thread? Hilarious...
Click to expand...

Similiar experience, almost got sideswiped passing a car on 2 lane each way- looked over seen she was on edge of not being fully awake she was so drunk. Pulled in behind- called it in followed her giving location- she went in and out of ditch and into oncoming lanes at dusk with no lights multiple times. She pulled into her driveway as officer caught up- we pointed him in and he stopped for two seconds and acted annoyed we had done what we did.

I don’t have so much as a beer and drive anymore and I’m against drunk driving but it appears that law enforcement more prefers the guy who’s had 3 and gets pulled over incidentally than the the ditch dodgers... ez shoulder pats from MADD...
 
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