Airline Question!

[Davis276]

Not sure where I was suppose to post this so if its the wrong area I do apologize. I was wondering if anyone had any information on airline pilots. Specifically their flying schedule, as I'm sure different companies and seniority plays a huge role. But, in general how often is one to be home if he is willing to relocate anywhere needed. Reginal vs Major?

If someone is able to help I do appreciate it!

 

[Tarheelpilot]

You want to know the meaning of life while we are at it too?

Just kidding ... sorta.

Honest and short answer. It can be like not having a job when very senior at a major to being like indentured servitude if junior at a regional. Some are very lucky, have quick seniority progression and spend very little of their career in the ditches down hill from the latrine. Some are not so lucky. It’s like buying a lottery ticket. If you are positioned to be hired at a regional airline today it looks promising. If you are taking your first flying lesson you might as well buy an ouija board.

 

[Davis276]

You want to know the meaning of life while we are at it too?

Just kidding ... sorta.

Honest and short answer. It can be like not having a job when very senior at a major to being like indentured servitude if junior at a regional. Some are very lucky, have quick seniority progression and spend very little of their career in the ditches down hill from the latrine. Some are not so

You want to know the meaning of life while we are at it too?

Just kidding ... sorta.

Honest and short answer. It can be like not having a job when very senior at a major to being like indentured servitude if junior at a regional. Some are very lucky, have quick seniority progression and spend very little of their career in the ditches down hill from the latrine. Some are not so lucky. It’s like buying a lottery ticket. If you are positioned to be hired at a regional airline today it looks promising. If you are taking your first flying lesson you might as well buy an ouija board.

Thank you for your reply.

 

[sourdough44]

I have 1/2 of June off and will have the last half of July off. I’ve also been away a metric ton of holidays, birthdays & special events over the decades.

It varies as much as weather in different regions of the world, yes, seniority matters. After any new hire phase, one can choose to drift senior in a given seat. An early upgrade or seat change can change that, all up to the pilot.

As far as thumbing a flight home after/before a trip, that adds time & stress to the schedule. In most instances I ‘recommend’ limiting commuting to months not decades. Find somewhere to live within 2 hours of a base, one may only do the drive once or twice a week. I do make exceptions for NYC & similar places.

 

[Busflyer]

Most of our domestic schedules are week on, week off. International is more 10-14 day trips and then 10-14 days off. Of course there are some shorter block schedules available if you prefer. Living within driving distance helps. Airlinepilotcentral.com can be useful however, beware, there is a large amount of bitching and whining there.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

My friend at Delta is a junior FO and typically flies 4 on 3 off from what I can tell. But his 4 are always Thurs to Sun. He also commutes to Atlanta so that takes time as well.

That said, if you don’t count sleeping hours, I am away from my family at a normal desk job more than he is.

 

[Mycroft17]

Not sure where I was suppose to post this so if its the wrong area I do apologize. I was wondering if anyone had any information on airline pilots. Specifically their flying schedule, as I'm sure different companies and seniority plays a huge role. But, in general how often is one to be home if he is willing to relocate anywhere needed. Reginal vs Major?

What this guy's Youtube videos. He documents his entire professional pilot career. He's currently an FO at a regional airline (Envoy). Just recently promoted to line holder, which I guess is the first step up the ladder.

https://www.youtube.com/user/MartinsAviation1

 

[SkyDog58]

It’s probably one of the best part time jobs out there.

 

[kayoh190]

Being willing to relocate and avoid a commute will be a huge advantage. Not only because you'll save the time from the commute, but it also gives you a lot more flexibility when it comes to moving your schedule around. Commuters prefer trips that accommodate their commute - late starts, early finishes, with large stretches of time off. If you live in base that stuff might not matter as much, and all of a sudden you have a much larger pool of trips you'd be willing to bid for or trade into. And for a given seniority level that could mean having weekends and holidays off, or whatever ends up being important for your home life.

 

[blurceo]

I uploaded a picture of my schedule. I’m at FO at a regional out of ORD bidding 71%. Every day that doesn’t have anything on it(anything white) I’m off. The red were moving days cause I switched bases. I’m a regular line holder. The second one is a reserve schedule from last month the green is a on call period from 5am-5pm. Blue are trips I got assigned on my on call days. And then blank days ar off days, how ever. Green Day’s without blue were days I was on call and didn’t get called out. But i was on call so I technically worked. I was biding 76% in ATL in May.

 

[Davis276]

I uploaded a picture of my schedule. I’m at FO at a regional out of ORD bidding 71%. Every day that doesn’t have anything on it(anything white) I’m off. The red were moving days cause I switched bases. I’m a regular line holder. The second one is a reserve schedule from last month the green is a on call period from 5am-5pm. Blue are trips I got assigned on my on call days. And then blank days ar off days, how ever. Green Day’s without blue were days I was on call and didn’t get called out. But i was on call so I technically worked. I was biding 76% in ATL in May.

Would you mind explaining "biding" and how that works..also.."on call".

 

[Davis276]

Being willing to relocate and avoid a commute will be a huge advantage. Not only because you'll save the time from the commute, but it also gives you a lot more flexibility when it comes to moving your schedule around. Commuters prefer trips that accommodate their commute - late starts, early finishes, with large stretches of time off. If you live in base that stuff might not matter as much, and all of a sudden you have a much larger pool of trips you'd be willing to bid for or trade into. And for a given seniority level that could mean having weekends and holidays off, or whatever ends up being important for your home life.

I have 1/2 of June off and will have the last half of July off. I’ve also been away a metric ton of holidays, birthdays & special events over the decades.

It varies as much as weather in different regions of the world, yes, seniority matters. After any new hire phase, one can choose to drift senior in a given seat. An early upgrade or seat change can change that, all up to the pilot.

As far as thumbing a flight home after/before a trip, that adds time & stress to the schedule. In most instances I ‘recommend’ limiting commuting to months not decades. Find somewhere to live within 2 hours of a base, one may only do the drive once or twice a week. I do make exceptions for NYC & similar places.

Mind me asking how a typical month may go for you at any given part of the year? And yes I would definitely make it a point to live near base.

 

[Davis276]

What this guy's Youtube videos. He documents his entire professional pilot career. He's currently an FO at a regional airline (Envoy). Just recently promoted to line holder, which I guess is the first step up the ladder.

https://www.youtube.com/user/MartinsAviation1

I'll definitely make it a point to check that out. Thanks.

 

[Kritchlow]

It’s probably one of the best part time jobs out there.

Part time??? That’s what many want to believe.
Truth is I’m away from home a lot more than a 9-5 M-F office worker.

 

[Davis276]

My friend at Delta is a junior FO and typically flies 4 on 3 off from what I can tell. But his 4 are always Thurs to Sun. He also commutes to Atlanta so that takes time as well.

That said, if you don’t count sleeping hours, I am away from my family at a normal desk job more than he is.

Thank you for the insight

 

[AggieMike88]

This video by Swayne Martin does a good job explaining what to expect as a junior FO

 

[Busflyer]

Would you mind explaining "biding" and how that works..also.."on call".

You bid for your schedule. If you’re number 57 on the seniority list for your fleet and seat, you choose 57th for your schedule. Sounds bad but everyone is always after different things. Some need certain days off, others want to fly to certain cities. I bid about #120 for my fleet and usually get my 15-20th choice.

On call is called reserve. For us it’s a 12 hour window where scheduling can call you to cover a trip and you have 90 minutes to be there. If you live in base it can be good. If you commute then you’d need a crashpad.

 

[Davis276]

You bid for your schedule. If you’re number 57 on the seniority list for your fleet and seat, you choose 57th for your schedule. Sounds bad but everyone is always after different things. Some need certain days off, others want to fly to certain cities. I bid about #120 for my fleet and usually get my 15-20th choice.

On call is called reserve. For us it’s a 12 hour window where scheduling can call you to cover a trip and you have 90 minutes to be there. If you live in base it can be good. If you commute then you’d need a crashpad.

Wow, I really did not know that's how that went (the biding). As far as the reserve..is that certain airlines or do most all reginal and major have pilots on call?

 

[jordane93]

I’m a regional captain. I’m off until July 13th. On reserve we get a minimum of 11-12 days off. Line holders get a minimum of 11 days off. You can have an entire month off if you bunch your vacation weeks together. My schedule isn’t great as a line holder, so I usually bid down to reserve because I live in base and my reserve schedule is a lot more flexible and I can get what I want off. When I was an FO, I would get anywhere from 12-18 days off a month. Major and legacy airlines have much better reserve rules and overall work rules.

 

[Busflyer]

Wow, I really did not know that's how that went (the biding). As far as the reserve..is that certain airlines or do most all reginal and major have pilots on call?

Yes. Airline life you live and die by seniority. Bidding for work schedule, vacation, training, etc.. Stinks to be junior but life improves with seniority. All airlines have reserve, have to be able to cover sick calls and mechanicals. Some have different call out times but they all have reserve.

 

[kayoh190]

Mind me asking how a typical month may go for you at any given part of the year?

I usually fly a three on, four off schedule with the flying done during the middle of the week. Eight nights in a hotel is the upper limit of what I like to do in a month, so if I want fewer overnights I’ll trade into two day and single day trips.

Pretty senior in my seat, though. My overall seniority is just barely enough to upgrade or be an FO on the 777, but it’s pretty cool to be able to build my month any way I’d like, so the plan is to hang out as a narrowbody FO for a little longer.

 

[kayoh190]

Truth is I’m away from home a lot more than a 9-5 M-F office worker.

But exactly how much more? My typical monthly TAFB is around 230 hours. This month I flew 13 days, 7 overnights, with a TAFB of 225.4 hours. So about 56 hours per week. More than a 9-5, but not grossly so, and just about anyone making the kind of money that we do (I believe you're in the left seat, so you're doing significantly better than I am) isn't working 9-5 either.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

But exactly how much more? My typical monthly TAFB is around 230 hours. This month I flew 13 days, 7 overnights, with a TAFB of 225.4 hours. So about 56 hours per week. More than a 9-5, but not grossly so, and just about anyone making the kind of money that we do (I believe you're in the left seat, so you're doing significantly better than I am) isn't working 9-5 either.

And your TAFB includes sleep time, right? My desk job that pays long haul captain money averages these days around 65 hours away from home a week without counting sleep. I leave the house at 7am and usually get home after 8pm. It is a crappy existence if you ask me.

 

[kayoh190]

And your TAFB includes sleep time, right? My desk job that pays long haul captain money averages these days around 65 hours away from home a week without counting sleep. I leave the house at 7am and usually get home after 8pm. It is a crappy existence if you ask me.

Yeah, that’s all in. At my company, it starts an hour prior to departure on the first day and ends 15 minutes after we set the parking brake on the last day. My June consisted of three 3-day trips, one 2-day, and a pair of single day trips (we call them ‘turns’).

You’ll be kicking my butt pay-wise for a long time though - I won’t see widebody* CA for at least another 8 years, and that’s assuming no hiccups in the movement - which is unlikely.


*767 not included, as our dumb payscale has it grouped in with the 757, and as such is only marginally more lucrative than a narrowbody, if at all.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Yeah, that’s all in. At my company, it starts an hour prior to departure on the first day and ends 15 minutes after we set the parking brake on the last day. My June consisted of three 3-day trips, one 2-day, and a pair of single day trips (we call them ‘turns’).

You’ll be kicking my butt pay-wise for a long time though - I won’t see widebody* CA for at least another 8 years, and that’s assuming no hiccups in the movement - which is unlikely.


*767 not included, as our dumb payscale has it grouped in with the 757, and as such is only marginally more lucrative than a narrowbody, if at all.

Trade ya.

 

[kayoh190]

Trade ya.

Naah...I’m good. Besides, I’m not qualified to do anything else these days. As @hindsight2020 loves to point out to us airline pukes, if I lose or leave my job, I’m basically effed. Even with two STEM degrees - I’ve been out of that game for so long I might as well buy a van and live on the river:

 

[hindsight2020]

Naah...I’m good. Besides, I’m not qualified to do anything else these days. As @hindsight2020 loves to point out to us airline pukes, if I lose or leave my job, I’m basically effed. Even with two STEM degrees - I’ve been out of that game for so long I might as well buy a van and live on the river:

Hey, you and me both buddy. Draken won't take me cuz I wasn't a fighter broseph before I trained hundreds of them , and civilian CFI pays pin money. In my case, I went the route of putting the wife through nursing school, which is about the only income diversification I got these days LOL

There is no way I would last a week at an engineering office. Did it the summer before my freshman year in college and should have got the hint then. Two AE degrees more than 15 years old and a buck twenty gets me a cup of coffee.

The closest to a realistic semi-serious answer is if I lost my ride, I'd get into federal civil service, buy back my active duty credit time, and finish a diluted pension (relative to an Active Duty pension) licking stamps at the proverbial postal office (cough FAA cough). Go basic med ASAP (many DQ conditions in the mil, which still get you a 3rd on the civi side), and enjoy lower-middle class hell until I can kick the kid out the house or my investment pays off and the wife finally makes nurse practitioner money

Game is chess it ain't checkers. Flying for money is a checker's move; I've never suggested it was anywhere near a smart choice of mine, within the conglomeration of aggregate coconut head life choices I've made so far in my almost 4 decades in this blasted planet. But so is crying over split milk, so but for the grade of god go I....

I concur with ya though, life's too short to do something you despise, especially when you have the bona fide liberty to say "NO". Let life/body/mind betray you and put you in a place you hate, don't put yourself there of your own volition. Nuggets o wisdom from salty Uncle Hindsight.

 

[Davis276]

I really appreciate everyone's insight and or opinions. It's really nice to have different angles to look through while making definite decisions about this path.

 

[Sociald]

I'm a legacy airline, wide-body FO that lives in base and sits in the bottom 10% of my seat. As someone else mentioned, it can be a great part-time gig if you live in base. My normal month holding a line is 9-12 days of work with 6-10 nights gone. When I bid reserve (usually in the winter), I generally go to work 0 to 9 days a month, while sitting reserve from my house. Day 1, I usually leave my house between 1200-1900 and on the last day I'm usually home between 1330-1700. Some months I drop my schedule down to 6-9 days and some months I pick up an overtime trip. That flexibility is what makes this job so awesome to me. Thanks to an overtime trip this month (15 days worked), I plan to drop my July schedule down to 6 days and enjoy a nice long vacation (including July 4th off) without actually taking any vacation. I'll take a pay hit this month, but the overtime trip from last month more than makes up for it.

Conversely, at my previous airline, I had a 2-leg commute to sit short call reserve 18 days/month. It SUCKED big time. Don't commute (I know, easier said than done for some)! As others have said, it can vary wildly based on when/where you were hired and dumb luck. Best ways to help yourself is to do what you need to get hired ASAP and live in base. Once there, get senior and stay senior or get on a WB ASAP. I can't remember if I said it, but don't commute.

 

[Davis276]

I'm a legacy airline, wide-body FO that lives in base and sits in the bottom 10% of my seat. As someone else mentioned, it can be a great part-time gig if you live in base. My normal month holding a line is 9-12 days of work with 6-10 nights gone. When I bid reserve (usually in the winter), I generally go to work 0 to 9 days a month, while sitting reserve from my house. Day 1, I usually leave my house between 1200-1900 and on the last day I'm usually home between 1330-1700. Some months I drop my schedule down to 6-9 days and some months I pick up an overtime trip. That flexibility is what makes this job so awesome to me. Thanks to an overtime trip this month (15 days worked), I plan to drop my July schedule down to 6 days and enjoy a nice long vacation (including July 4th off) without actually taking any vacation. I'll take a pay hit this month, but the overtime trip from last month more than makes up for it.

Conversely, at my previous airline, I had a 2-leg commute to sit short call reserve 18 days/month. It SUCKED big time. Don't commute (I know, easier said than done for some)! As others have said, it can vary wildly based on when/where you were hired and dumb luck. Best ways to help yourself is to do what you need to get hired ASAP and live in base. Once there, get senior and stay senior or get on a WB ASAP. I can't remember if I said it, but don't commute.

Some more great insight..thank you.
You sound very happy with your career choice...mind me asking how long you have been flying ATP?

 

[blurceo]

Would you mind explaining "biding" and how that works..also.."on call".

For my regional, we get a week to bid on what we would like to work each month. And you end up getting awarded what your seniority can hold. So the higher your bidding percentage is the better chance of getting what you want. Now if you are new your seniority is so low. You may not be able to hold a set schedule (line holder). Which means you we be on reserve(on call). So you will bid on what on-call period you want. AM or PM on reserve, what days off you want, and if you want long call or short call (long call 12 hour call out, short call 2 hour call out). During that call period, you have either 12 or 2 hours to be at the airport your based at to start the trip. Sometimes you will get called to sit ready reserve which is sitting at the airport for 8 hours and wait around in case they need someone sooner than a 2 hour call out.

 

[Sociald]

Would you mind explaining "biding" and how that works..also.."on call".

Some airlines have a packet of pre-made schedules for the month and you just rank them in the order you'd like to get. If you're #50 in the category, then 50 of these lines will be gone before they get to you. Other airlines have a program where you put in all kinds of qualifiers such as trips that start on Sundays or avoid if laying over in BFE, etc... Then the program takes that and builds you a schedule. The more senior you are obviously the better your schedule will be likely be. When I was fairly senior on my previous aircraft, I would simply ask for 2 day trips with layovers in SAN, PHX and PVR and pretty much only flew those on the days I wanted. Senior guys also get first pick at vacation weeks. This is why I say some of the happiest guys are the ones that get senior and stay senior. Many of the senior FOs make more than the captains they fly with.

You could fill this forum full of discussions on which one is better, but the truth is it's somewhere in the middle as they both have the advantages/disadvantages.

Part time??? That’s what many want to believe.
Truth is I’m away from home a lot more than a 9-5 M-F office worker.

All of my buddies in the business world that make similar or more pay work WAY more than me. A few easily spend more time in hotel rooms than I do as well. One was a business consultant after leaving one of the big business schools and that dude worked ridiculous hours. He managed to snag a very high paying banker gig but is already burned out and just submitted his app to the airlines. He loved that he got to be home for Thanksgiving and Christmas this year, but he hated that he spent over half of those days on the phone putting out fires. It also helps that I think his last few years of bonuses have help him pad his account big time.

Wow, I really did not know that's how that went (the biding). As far as the reserve..is that certain airlines or do most all reginal and major have pilots on call?

All of them have guys on reserve and some places are better than other wrt to reserve work rules. At my airline, reserve often goes very senior as it can be a great deal, especially for those that live in base.

Some more great insight..thank you.
You sound very happy with your career choice...mind me asking how long you have been flying ATP?

I'm very happy with my choice but I've also been very fortunate up to this point in my career. I've been flying for the Airlines sine 2012 and at my current gig since 2014. I've also been flying in the Air National Guard since 2006 and still have a few years left until I can punch from that gig.