MH370 - what probably happened

[kyleb]

That assume that the recorder stops when the crash occurs. What if the crash is not catastrophic? Perhaps a major malfunction that leaves the recorder running. Then you have no voice evidence of what happened in the cockpit.

Then you have 2 hours to get the thing on the ground to preserve the evidence. I'm not for spending the money to solve an edge case (>2 hours before landing) of an edge case (non-catastrophic crash) of an edge case (airliner crash).

 

[Tantalum]

Nauga

Our bureaucracy is crippling. There was a time we could make advancements in tech and safety and get things done without a bloated government oversight committee for everything

Every Tantalum airlines airplane will come with a $500 spotme, for mel issues it will come with two, for the whopping cost of $1,000. If one is out the flight may continue, and if both are out and the aircraft is not going outside of radar coverage etc continue flying

MH370 mayb a one-off aberration, but I'm sure the people who lost loved ones etcetera would appreciate some actual closure of knowing where the airplane is.. also, presumably we will be on this Earth for at least a couple more hundred years to come, surely this will not be the last time an airplane just flat disappears, or boat or anything else for that matter

Besides all that though it's crazy how much we've limited ourselves. Thank God (gods?) for people like Elon Musk who continue to push the envelope and don't accept "can't do it"

The default answer to everything does not have to be "it can't be done for X Y Z"

 

[nauga]

Our bureaucracy is crippling. There was a time we could make advancements in tech and safety and get things done without a bloated government oversight committee for everything

It's not bureaucracy, it's business. A SPOT tracker used as you suggest does nothing to improve safety, and it would do nothing at all for millions of commercial flights.

Nauga,
who thinks unnecessary features are bloat

 

[Tantalum]

It's not bureaucracy, it's business. A SPOT tracker used as you suggest does nothing to improve safety.

If my loved ones perished on an aircraft I'd think it was completely asinine that a state-of-the-art modern commercial airliner can just vanish. The guy probably was suicidal, but we'll never actually know without finding it and hence have no ability to learn potential safety improvements from this accident

It's crazy to me that no one else thinks it's bonkers that we don't know where these planes are in flight, have only 2 hrs of audio, and despite the billions of dollars invested in commercial aviation the ability to track them in real time is impossible, for 'reasons'

Such is life though it seems

Tantalum
Feeling dejected

 

[nauga]

Thank God (gods?) for people like Elon Musk who continue to push the envelope and don't accept "can't do it"

Since you brought up safety, how many soft pink (human) bodies has a SpaceX rocket carried into space to date?
I'm not saying what you're proposing *can't* be done, I'm saying the potential (indefinite) benefit is so minuscule it's just not worth doing.

Nauga,
and a place to look for the hole

 

[nauga]

It's crazy to me that no one else thinks it's bonkers that we don't know where these planes are in flight, have only 2 hrs of audio, and despite the billions of dollars invested in commercial aviation the ability to track them in real time is impossible, for 'reasons'

No one has said it's impossible. Pretty much everyone says there's no need, other than an emotional one.

Nauga,
and a cost/benefit analysis

 

[Tantalum]

SpaceX

Nil. We will get there though. I appreciate how he's shaped the landscape though, with the Tesla and SpaceX he's created a competitive environment for people to continue on in new frontiers

 

[FastEddieB]

Don't know if its been mentioned, but there's a way on the main page to have the article read to you. I just did. The article was well done and decidedly spooky.

 

[nauga]

The guy probably was suicidal, but we'll never actually know without finding it and hence have no ability to learn potential safety improvements from this accident

You've mentioned several examples of data that *are* telemetered and the article talks about other sources of data - and goes so far as to reach a definitive conclusion...I think there's quite a lot that can be learned from the disappearance even though the vast majority of the airplane has not been recovered.

Nauga,
practically

 

[Tantalum]

emotional one

Fair enough, but there are commercial advantages to catering to that. Maslow's hierarchy of needs has been proven to work, and so much of today's commercial enterprizes are successful because they tag on that emotional part. Granted the guy on Orbitz shopping low to high on price is not going to give a hoot

 

[nauga]

Fair enough, but there are commercial advantages to catering to that.

I doubt any commercially viable airline is going to advertise that they carry redundant real-time position-reporting gear so that in the extremely unlikely event your flight disappears due to e.g. a suicidal pilot your family will be able to recover what's left of your body.
I suspect they'll have better results with free booze and wifi.

Nauga,
the pragmatist

 

[kyleb]

Fair enough, but there are commercial advantages to catering to that. Maslow's hierarchy of needs has been proven to work, and so much of today's commercial enterprizes are successful because they tag on that emotional part. Granted the guy on Orbitz shopping low to high on price is not going to give a hoot

If Maslow was at play and the airplane riding public gave a darn, every airline would voluntarily install SPOT trackers, giving pax what they want, and assuring that airline's dominance until the other carriers followed along. Hasn't happened. This is only an issue on news sites where the whole game is to create controversy and drive reading or watching habits.

The reality is, SPOT trackers don't directly help with safety, they just lead you to the site of the crash. Passengers don't give a flying fig. The airline marketing people know this.

Beyond that, how many times has a modern airliner disappeared? I can think of once in about 60 years.

 

[SkyDog58]

So how many airline accidents have involved a disappearance of the aircraft? And how many of those had potential survivors that could have been rescued in time if there had been satellite tracking?

 

[wsuffa]

So which gets found first? Amelia Earhardt or MH370?

 

[FlyingTiger]

Good article and worth a read. That's the first I have heard about the depressurization theory. It was a bit long winded though, and there was entirely too much discussion about Blaine Gibson. Could of summarized his role in one paragraph, wasn't nearly as important to the story as the author thought he was.

 

[SkyDog58]

Good article and worth a read. That's the first I have heard about the depressurization theory. It was a bit long winded though, and there was entirely too much discussion about Blaine Gibson. Could of summarized his role in one paragraph, wasn't nearly as important to the story as the author thought he was.

The depressurization theory has been a major part of the theory that the pilot did it since early on. And it most likely is spot on.

I had heard of course of the various pieces of the aircraft being found but had never heard of Gibson or his involvement in finding them. Of course, he personally didn’t actually find the majority of them or the larger pieces but rather he found a way to gain access to them or convince others to look for them. Still it’s an interesting side story. I do agree though that it took up more space than it needed to.

 

[Larry in TN]

Is a spot tracker inside an airplane's fuselage going to get a reliable GPS position fix? Will it be able to transmit to the back to the satellite from within the cabin? Who'll change the batteries?

I think they'd have to design an STC version that can be installed, run on aircraft power, and have an exterior antenna. That isn't going to cost $500 or $1,000 per airplane. Then, how do you prevent its C.B. from being pulled in it is a person in the cockpit intentionally "losing" the airplane?

I don't think it would be as simple or inexpensive as some are suggesting.

 

[kyleb]

Is a spot tracker inside an airplane's fuselage going to get a reliable GPS position fix? Will it be able to transmit to the back to the satellite from within the cabin? Who'll change the batteries?

I think they'd have to design an STC version that can be installed, run on aircraft power, and have an exterior antenna. That isn't going to cost $500 or $1,000 per airplane. Then, how do you prevent its C.B. from being pulled in it is a person in the cockpit intentionally "losing" the airplane?

I don't think it would be as simple or inexpensive as some are suggesting.

Ain't gonna be inexpensive once it is mounted on an airliner. But the argument (?) is that it would be pretty much irrelevant anyway. The odds of it being needed are .000001 (or whatever) on any given flight, and the odds of it saving anyone are 0. So there isn't much of a point in doing it.

 

[Tantalum]

Is a spot tracker inside an airplane's fuselage going to get a reliable GPS position fix?

My foreflight GPS on my iPad never has any problem finding us, even if I'm sitting in the middle of a 767 with iPad on airplane mode. same thing with my Android Pixel, even on airplane mode the map will still find me exactly where I am

inflight entertainment and in flight WiFi are already talking to the satellites, I'm surprised that the latitude longitude information is not retained anywhere in that datastream, even for aid in satellite acquisition as the AC travels to help avoid any gaps in coverage as the plane picks up and drops satellites

Clearly I was mistaken though, it's obviously a very stupid idea.. I mean, let's continue to spend days, weeks, even months to look for crashed airplanes, and sometimes just never find them

 

[Larry in TN]

My foreflight GPS on my iPad never has any problem finding us, even if I'm sitting in the middle of a 767 with iPad on airplane mode. same thing with my Android Pixel, even on airplane mode the map will still find me exactly where I am

Our FAA approved iPad EFBs will lose their position fix (at least at the accuracy required for own-ship display) with regularity while they're mounted on the cockpit direct-view windows. Maintaining the position in anything other than a window seat in the cabin is spotty.

The 787 is even worse due to the static discharge/lightning protection built into the composite material. The FAA won't allow own-ship display on them due to the inaccuracy of the GPS position.

All of that is just receiving the satellite signals to establish a position. For these things to report the position back to the satellites they are going to need an external antenna.

There are a lot more productive ways to spend the money this would require to improve safety.