clearance and tower speech speed

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jeffs chips

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Hi. Wondering if it's just me or is it that airport personnel seem to be speeding up the delivery of directions (clearance, tower, etc.) even when there are very few operations on the tarmac/in the sky?

I often enjoy and learn great tips on safety and flying (taken with a grain of salt as I know it's a video and not intended for instruction) from various Youtube bloggers. Here is one from the famed steveo1kinevo. Can some flyers here pipe in and tell me if the clearance delivery and tower personnel rattling off instructions are going at the speed of sound and faster than most people can comprehend? You only need to listen into less than 3 minutes.


Is it considered impolite/unprofessional to ask the tower, clearance and center to speak a little slower sometimes?
 
Are you relatively new to ifr flying? The perceived speed of ATC instructions seems to be highly related to how much you know what to expect. That did not seem particularly fast to me but I’m sure I would have struggled with understanding/writing it down when I was a new ifr pilot.
 
Rusty VFR considering IFR ticket. I don't remember controllers speaking that fast when I used to fly. I'm sure it's an experience thing, though, and expect to come up to speed once I'm back in the saddle. Just thought I'd ask and get a consensus.
 
Its ok to ask; or just readback the parts you got and CD will keep repeating it til you got it.
Don't let them rattle you.
 
"Bugsmasher123BZ,taxito34Rightviacharlie,Delta1,Alpha,Alpha2.Holdshort34RightatAlpha2." ---Its all just repetitive motion!
 
It is OK to ask to slow down...

...however, once you learn IFR and techniques like CRAFT, much of that info is already known and you are expecting it. While a lot is being rattled off rapidly, there are only specific snippets that are new and that you need to actually copy down very little of it if you are prepared...the rest you are just following along and verifying. It becomes kinda like a game of Mad Libs where you fit in a few blanks, not trying to follow along and copy down everything blindly.
 
I'm VFR only, but flying out of a class C, I overhear a lot of IFR clearances; no, this one sounded pretty typical to me. The ATIS actually sounded slightly fast, but that doesn't matter since it's a loop anyway.
 
jeffs chips said:
Hi. Wondering if it's just me or is it that airport personnel seem to be speeding up the delivery of directions (clearance, tower, etc.) even when there are very few operations on the tarmac/in the sky?

I often enjoy and learn great tips on safety and flying (taken with a grain of salt as I know it's a video and not intended for instruction) from various Youtube bloggers. Here is one from the famed steveo1kinevo. Can some flyers here pipe in and tell me if the clearance delivery and tower personnel rattling off instructions are going at the speed of sound and faster than most people can comprehend? You only need to listen into less than 3 minutes.


Is it considered impolite/unprofessional to ask the tower, clearance and center to speak a little slower sometimes?
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It is not only professional, but also the responsible thing to do, to ask for clarification or to spell out an intersection name when you didn't get it. This happens to everyone. The first time I heard "clearance on request", I was totally confused. It sounded to me as if "if you ask me for a clearance properly, then I will give it to you". After some pause, I said in plain language "I don't understand what you are saying", and she explained to me what clearance on request meant.
 
Sounds pretty typical of FXE, not all airports are as busy with a mix of students and corporate jets though.

That would be a bit fast to someone not used to it.
 
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BTW, the clearance delivery starts at the 2:00 mark.

That wasn't too bad. But it also sounded a bit muddled to me.
 
That clearance was on the fast side of average. Pretty common.

What I don’t particularly understand is why some controllers have to talk so fast on the ATIS. I sometimes have to listen several times to catch it all.
 
If they didn’t talk fast, the long pause between calls would be shorter and they couldn’t eat their donuts. I believe that’s in the manual somewhere.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
That clearance was on the fast side of average. Pretty common.

What I don’t particularly understand is why some controllers have to talk so fast on the ATIS. I sometimes have to listen several times to catch it all.
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Because cutting a new ATIS is boring. They usually have other tasks to get to and they’re trying to fit everything in, in less than 30 secs.
 
I watched this video and agree ATC was fast. I even played it back and tried to copy it as he spoke. Way too fast for this Southern boy. He is probably not from around here (South) but even so, what the point in talking so fast? Maybe I am just slow.
 
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You guys just need to learn to hear faster:) Don't shoot, it's just a punchline, not snark. @jeffs chips , there is nothing impolite or unprofessional in asking a controller to slow down. Not doing it and getting something wrong is what is unprofessional. Here's the story where the punchline comes from. It happened to me when I was new at the Center and in training there. I had over 20 years as a controller by then and had long since learned that talking to fast just slows me down. The pauses and the say again's add up fast. But It got 'a three legged cat covering up sheet busy' one day. Weather, diverts, blah blah. I was down the sheeter like ol' Tex Ritter and I guess it got to my speech rate. Then a pilot says, I think it was an American if I remember right, a regular Billy Bob Bo Jack from Dallas Texas if you know what I mean. He drawls to me, "son, you're gonna have to slow down, I can't hear that fast." I've used that since as a pilot a couple of times. Works like a charm.
 
Whatever you do, don't ask for your clearance in TEB on a Thursday afternoon in the summer, get a full route clearance, and respond in the slowest southern accent ever that you need the whole thing read again, but slower.
 
I always make a point to read clearances back faster than they were read to me.. it's a really a scale of who's more of a man, and ultimately who's the superior aviator. Pull out your stopwatch, if it takes him 38 seconds to read the clearance to you, see if you can fire it back in under 25

Oh, and throw a few fife, niner, tree, in there just to really seal the deal


/S
 
Tantalum said:
I always make a point to read clearances back faster than they were read to me.. it's a really a scale of who's more of a man, and ultimately who's the superior aviator. Pull out your stopwatch, if it takes him 38 seconds to read the clearance to you, see if you can fire it back in under 25

Oh, and throw a few fife, niner, tree, in there just to really seal the deal


/S
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or take 25 seconds drawling out r o g e r
 
I once listened to a controller rattle off a clearance at high speed. The pilot replied in a very slow southern drawl, “Ma’am,do you hear how fast I am talking, well it’s just about as fast as I can write so let’s start all over again!”
 
The guys that talk fast on either end end up repeating themselves usually and clog up the frequency even more. So in their attempt to talk fast to get more traffic out or respond to ATC, they end up making it worst. The worst thing you can do is talk fast. It really accomplishes nothing.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Its ok to ask; or just readback the parts you got and CD will keep repeating it til you got it.
Don't let them rattle you.
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Does anyone have the link to the TKI controller trying to give the guy in the Mooney a clearance? Perfect example of them reading it until you finally get it.
 
aggie06 said:
Does anyone have the link to the TKI controller trying to give the guy in the Mooney a clearance? Perfect example of them reading it until you finally get it.
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I could tell exactly how the video was going to go after the Mooney said “over” on his first transmission

 
jordane93 said:
I could tell exactly how the video was going to go after the Mooney said “over” on his first transmission

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That was actually a clear clearance the first time. I'm wondering how he ever passed the checkride.
 
That’s the one @jordane93 . I did my training at TKI and got that same departure for my instrument checkride. I like to think I did a little better than Mooney 0JP, but Pam in the tower saw the remarks that said “flight test” and slowed everything down even more for me.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
That clearance was on the fast side of average. Pretty common.

What I don’t particularly understand is why some controllers have to talk so fast on the ATIS. I sometimes have to listen several times to catch it all.
Click to expand...
Yeah, better ones for the ATIS are these


 
aggie06 said:
Pam in the tower saw the remarks that said “flight test” and slowed everything down even more for me.
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Pam is on my list of Most Awesome ATC'ers. I was a bit saddened to hear her announce her retirement this year.
 
BrianNC said:
That was actually a clear clearance the first time. I'm wondering how he ever passed the checkride.
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aggie06 said:
That’s the one @jordane93 . I did my training at TKI and got that same departure for my instrument checkride. I like to think I did a little better than Mooney 0JP, but Pam in the tower saw the remarks that said “flight test” and slowed everything down even more for me.
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My guess is that the guy didn’t have the SID plate out and was completely caught off guard when he wasn’t cleared direct. Kudos to the controller for keeping his cool. Must have been a slow day.
 
falconkidding said:
I dont mind fast i just hate mumbling or running words together.
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This. I can take a faster readout if the speaker is clear and precise in his speech. I am from Texas and sometimes I have to watch how I talk on the radio.
If a controller is speed firing, I slow down and speak plainly and clearly. Seems like most of the time the controller might not be aware he or she is rapid firing. Then sometimes everyone is on a roll and it works out fine.
 
How do some of these ATC guys get their jobs in the first place? (Not to disparage the vast majority of ATC professionals, who are awesome!) The position should require a clear speaking voice.

During my training at KSNA years ago, there was a tower controller that everyone referred to as "Mumbles." :eek: I used "Say Again" quite a bit!
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
How do some of these ATC guys get their jobs in the first place? (Not to disparage the vast majority of ATC professionals, who are awesome!) The position should require a clear speaking voice.

During my training at KSNA years ago, there was a tower controller that everyone referred to as "Mumbles." :eek: I used "Say Again" quite a bit!
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I notice the mumbles to. Seems more so in recent years, pilots and controllers both. I returned to flying after about 25 years off and at that time had been retired from ATC for about 10. I think I just kinda figured maybe it was my hearing. I notice it mostly towards the ends of transmission, running the last few words together and trailing off. In pilots it mostly seems to be in the airline crowd. The guys who do it day in and day out, all day.
As far as how do they get their jobs, there has been an unending evolution in the hiring process over the years and I think some of the ‘eras’ may have been more prone to ‘slipping through the cracks’ than others.
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
How do some of these ATC guys get their jobs in the first place? (Not to disparage the vast majority of ATC professionals, who are awesome!) The position should require a clear speaking voice.

During my training at KSNA years ago, there was a tower controller that everyone referred to as "Mumbles." :eek: I used "Say Again" quite a bit!
Click to expand...

Not sure if it’s required for the FAA but in military ATC they used to have to pass a reading test at MEPS. That being said, we had one guy who slipped through the cracks and actually stuttered. We terminated him before he ever talked to a live aircraft.
 
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