3393RP
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3393RP
Haven't you heard? An exponential increase in battery energy density is just over the horizon.
Question for those smarter than me
- Thread starter Ventucky Red
- Start date
Haven't you heard? An exponential increase in battery energy density is just over the horizon.
Tantalum
Final Approach
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San_Diego_Pilot
Hybrid cars make (some) sense.. you spend a lot of time decelerating (great, regen), and a lot of time at stop signs, stop lights, in traffic, etc., so those are great opportunities to kill the electric motor so you're not burning gas for no reason.. granted, even in a car you have to recharge those batteries, so it's not a free lunch. The Hybrid Altima, when in gas mode, actually got worse MPG then the standard Altima as the engine was working double time to charge the batteries also.. but, your more-than-break-even savings came from the above mentioned decelerating and waiting at stop lights and the such
An aircraft spends just about all it's time somewhere in the 65% to 85% power realm. During decent it's not like you'll be able to charge the batteries (even though many assume you'll somehow top off a full flight's worth of batteries during a 20 minute descent:
A.) I can only imagine the kind of insane VS you would get buy turning those into windmills.. how often do you descend at idle? Now imagine pulling that energy out to charge batteries
B.) ATC generally has a fairly prescribed step down path for you, especially when IFR on an arrival / approach procedure, so even if you found a way to regenerate some power it would be minimal
And finally, you lose all the utility you get from being able to have different fuel loads and payload options
The only place I see this making (some) sense are small sport and recreational planes and trainers, but even there I don't know what kind of flight school would appreciate the recharge downtime between each flight. An airliner that minimizes time on the ground and spend's 90% of its life at >65% power... I don't see it
But some idiot can get rich, then sell the company to some other idiot, buy milking the good intentions of some "don't-you-care-about-the-earth-and-climate-change" dolt and soaking in some gov grants
These discussion also conveniently forget about the raw chemistry of batteries vs fossil fuels... the energy density of batteries is pitiful compared to fossil fuels, and, you're chemically limited by what you can actually extract from it. People keep hoping for some Star Wars sci-fi power pack break through.. but it ain't happening
Lastly... oft conveniently forgotten is the HUGE environmental impact that lithium mining has, it's associated health risks, and the way to recycle these batteries
An aircraft spends just about all it's time somewhere in the 65% to 85% power realm. During decent it's not like you'll be able to charge the batteries (even though many assume you'll somehow top off a full flight's worth of batteries during a 20 minute descent:
A.) I can only imagine the kind of insane VS you would get buy turning those into windmills.. how often do you descend at idle? Now imagine pulling that energy out to charge batteries
B.) ATC generally has a fairly prescribed step down path for you, especially when IFR on an arrival / approach procedure, so even if you found a way to regenerate some power it would be minimal
And finally, you lose all the utility you get from being able to have different fuel loads and payload options
The only place I see this making (some) sense are small sport and recreational planes and trainers, but even there I don't know what kind of flight school would appreciate the recharge downtime between each flight. An airliner that minimizes time on the ground and spend's 90% of its life at >65% power... I don't see it
But some idiot can get rich, then sell the company to some other idiot, buy milking the good intentions of some "don't-you-care-about-the-earth-and-climate-change" dolt and soaking in some gov grants
These discussion also conveniently forget about the raw chemistry of batteries vs fossil fuels... the energy density of batteries is pitiful compared to fossil fuels, and, you're chemically limited by what you can actually extract from it. People keep hoping for some Star Wars sci-fi power pack break through.. but it ain't happening
Lastly... oft conveniently forgotten is the HUGE environmental impact that lithium mining has, it's associated health risks, and the way to recycle these batteries
X3 Skier
En-Route
IMNSHO, Everyone now in the world (and all future generations) will be dead before this thing works.
Cheers
3393RP
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3393RP
If I was a Cape Air passenger, there's no way I would volunteer to be a test dummy on an airplane which will employ a power source having perhaps 3,000 hours of flight testing and is wholly dependent on software to remain in the sky. That assumes it will actually be manufactured and certified, which I doubt.
Cape Air would be buying a non-existent plane whose performance numbers are highly questionable and planned certification date that's wildly optimistic.
Eviation’s Alice plane would have a maximum takeoff weight of 14,000 pounds. The battery weighs 7,000 pounds.
The Alice planes seat nine passengers and a single charge will be able to carry it 650 miles, according to Eviation.
If the plane weighs 14,000 lbs all up, has a 7,000 lb battery, and carries nine passengers, baggage, catering and two crew, that will add another 2,500 lbs, which implies an empty weight of 4,500 lbs. That's roughly 500 lbs more than the empty weight of a B-58 Baron.
A 1,200 lb battery will propel a 4,900 lb Tesla S Long Range less than 300 miles. Eviation claims their battery, about six times heavier, will give the 14,000 lb airplane 650 miles of range, presumably including a reserve of 30 minutes or more.
Gee, should I be skeptical?
Cape Air has placed an order with Tecnam for 100 P2012 piston powered twins, which seat 11 passengers. The list price of the aircraft is $2.6 million.
The P2012, unlike Eviation's Alice, actually exists and has EASA certification. FAA approval is expected in the next few months. It should be an excellent replacement for Cape Air's ageing Cessna fleet.
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