Young Eagles - Count Me Out :(

That's pretty much what I did. I got chewed out a little b the Chapter President for not following the plan, but I really needed the space to configure the aircraft for landing. Indeed I tried to follow their pattern n my last run, got behind the airplane and wound up with a crap landing. Might try fiddling with some low power settings to let me fit in with Skyhawks better.

Again, I’m new at this, but with my one experience they had two routes. A low altitude (500ish agl) slow route that brought us in on a 45 to landing and a high altitude fast route. Those on that route came directly in 1000 above tpa and performed a break to sequence themselves in.
 
Heart breaking: There was a conference for the blind over in D.C., so some of the parents arranged to come over with their sight-impaired/blind children for airplane rides. The flight school offered free rides. One girl wanted to fly over Pennsylvania, so the pilot took her up to the MD/PA state line and circled. Though she couldn't see, she was thrilled.
Not heart breaking, heart touching!

I've had everything from young kids who chatter continually to older kids actually interested in learning, boy scouts working on their merit badges (we told the BSA to take a hike on their requirements, they could accept the EAA terms or go fish), etc...
I've never flown Young Eagles, mostly because I have a single-seat plane! I did borrow a Maule a few weeks ago to take up a bunch of Boy Scouts. I'm not a fan of BSA, which I'm sure will ruffle some feathers here, but after 7.8K volunteers have been banned “because of reasonable allegations of child sexual abuse" with over 12K victims, they are finally doing something about it and you can't take boys up without at least two adults in the plane. This wasn't a big deal for me, but because one of the leaders was so big, I had to put him in the front for two flights and less kids got to fly the plane.

One thing I like about flying with Boy Scouts or Flying Vikings is, I get no input on the flying from the leaders. I try to give them all the same ride, out and around the lake and back, which ends up being around 20 minutes. If for any reason I want to change that flight, it's up to me. I had a kid named Auggie who listed ever single celebrity ever killed in an airplane in order. I'll never forget him!
 
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Again, I’m new at this, but with my one experience they had two routes. A low altitude (500ish agl) slow route that brought us in on a 45 to landing and a high altitude fast route. Those on that route came directly in 1000 above tpa and performed a break to sequence themselves in.
Mine was the only complex aircraft, and there was but one route (only 6 airplanes). I couldn't have followed their route with the Mooney unless I climbed to altitude and immediately slowed down to land, that's how tight it was. Chapter President was worried I was making things too hard for the tower. I don't give a rat's assay about those guys, they sit in a booth. I gotta fly the airplane. Happens again I'll remind him who's PIC of my aircraft.

I don't mind fiddling around to slow the aircraft down a bit in cruise. I got ideas. That said, I'm not interested in testing said ideas with kids in the aircraft.
 
you can't take boys up without at least two adults in the plane.
Whose rule is that? I've flown several Boy Scouts on YE flights... although over half of them were girls. Just two of us, it's a 2-seater.
 
Have observed YE flights at my local airport for many years. Due to concerns over both aircraft and pilot quality, I would not recommend anyone one take their child to it.
 
Whose rule is that? I've flown several Boy Scouts on YE flights... although over half of them were girls. Just two of us, it's a 2-seater.
It is a Boy Scout rule, called "Two-Deep".

To quote from the policy:
  • Two-deep leadership is required on all outings. A minimum of two registered adult leaders — or one registered leader and a participating Scout’s parent or another adult — is required for all trips and outings. One of these adults must be 21 years of age or older.
  • One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is prohibited.
https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2...wo-deep-leadership-and-no-one-on-one-contact/
 
Yeah... we told them, I believe, they could deal with things however they wanted, but they'd need to deal with reality, and the reality is there are lots and lots of airplanes that won't carry two adults and a kid. EAA has their youth protection rules also, of course.
 
We tell Boy Scouts that this is an EAA event. Each Young Eagle must have a registration completed and signed by parent or legal guardian.
 
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We tell Boy Scouts that this is an EAA event. Each Young Eagle must have a registration completed and signed by parent of legal guardian.
If they’re working on their aviation merit badge, I think BSA would frown on their policies not being followed. If they just happen to be Boy Scouts and taking a Young Eagles ride, it probably wouldn’t matter.
 
If they’re working on their aviation merit badge, I think BSA would frown on their policies not being followed. If they just happen to be Boy Scouts and taking a Young Eagles ride, it probably wouldn’t matter.

We just had a Boy Scout Troop overnight in our chapter hangar to do their Aviation Merit Badge and then flew as Young Eagles on Saturday morning.
 
Something not mentioned is the Young Eagle credits that a chapter accrues during the year. We tend to use those to pay transportation costs for our youth that are attending Air Academy camps. This summer we have three young folks going.
 
We just had a Boy Scout Troop overnight in our chapter hangar to do their Aviation Merit Badge and then flew as Young Eagles on Saturday morning.
I understand, but I'm saying I think this Troop violated the BSA policy. I'm not sure what the repercussions are. I have a friend whose kid is a Scout and he is a leader. I will ask him. I'm in no way wanting to stir anything up, but you might want to mention it to them so they protect themselves.

Honestly, if I'm in charge of making policies at BSA and I find out this one is being violated, I would probably have the leaders removed and maybe even disband the troop. It may sound harsh, but they put this policy in place because of the known molestation. The numbers I mentioned above are from an investigation they requested internally.
 
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After reading this, I have to say I’m glad that this type of thing doesn’t appeal to me.

I’ll be charitable by flying blood donations or whatever else FFL has packed in the box, around the Southwest.

My plane filled with kids? Ummm. No.
My plane with scoutmasters and kids? Ummm. No.
Form a conga-line with mixed aircraft? Ummm. No.
Non-aviation people telling me how to fly my plane? Ummm. No.
Local airport busybodies telling me all over again? Ummm. No.

For those that do this, my hat is off to you. But for those that haven’t yet, I recommend to begin at the top of this thread and think it through.

Seems like it’s a great hit for about 10% of the kids, and a case of “wtf just happened” for 90%.
 
Seems like it’s a great hit for about 10% of the kids, and a case of “wtf just happened” for 90%.
I will say I’ve never flown a kid who didn’t enjoy it.

Sometimes politics get in the way of a good time. I looked into joining our local CAP. All I heard were stories of politics and cliques. I decided where there’s smoke there’s fire and I ran away!
 
The issues with BSA have nothing to do with youth molestation. The issue was they wanted a copies of our insurance policies, certificates, log books, and other bullpoop that we were unwilling to provide. We told the leaders if they wanted to show up for YE under the YE terms, we'd do the extra stuff (letting the kids do the preflight, etc...) they needed, but we weren't going to play with the corporate bureaucracy.
 
Mine was the only complex aircraft, and there was but one route (only 6 airplanes). I couldn't have followed their route with the Mooney unless I climbed to altitude and immediately slowed down to land, that's how tight it was. Chapter President was worried I was making things too hard for the tower. I don't give a rat's assay about those guys, they sit in a booth. I gotta fly the airplane. Happens again I'll remind him who's PIC of my aircraft.

I don't mind fiddling around to slow the aircraft down a bit in cruise. I got ideas. That said, I'm not interested in testing said ideas with kids in the aircraft.
Maybe you (at least in that plane) are not right for this mission.
 
The issues with BSA have nothing to do with youth molestation. The issue was they wanted a copies of our insurance policies, certificates, log books, and other bullpoop that we were unwilling to provide. We told the leaders if they wanted to show up for YE under the YE terms, we'd do the extra stuff (letting the kids do the preflight, etc...) they needed, but we weren't going to play with the corporate bureaucracy.
Right, but their policy of having two adults is for protection from molestation and they will say it also provides a level of safety on hikes if the adult is hurt.
 
That's pretty much what I did. I got chewed out a little b the Chapter President for not following the plan, but I really needed the space to configure the aircraft for landing. Indeed I tried to follow their pattern n my last run, got behind the airplane and wound up with a crap landing. Might try fiddling with some low power settings to let me fit in with Skyhawks better.
Your chapter TPTB need to understand the difference between a "fast mover" and a "slow mover" as we categorize our airplanes (RVs and BOs on one side vs Flying Buicks like my cherokee). Two different routes but merge at what might be called the YE-IAF which is about 5 miles from the runway. Rule there is 90 kts for everyone unless tower says otherwise.

We have this same problem at our "other" site - and yes, I also got "reminded" about the route by another pilot I graciously thanked and then ignored. The objective, at least with our chapter, is hands-on for the kids. With the current route over there, just no time. So I extended my outbound to stay out of everyone's way. Turns out the following month, the route changed to the one I flew. Gee, I wonder why. I won't do another rallye with them...just not organized enough. But it was an emergency and they desperately needed more pilots.

The coordinator or someone might want to attend the YE program at Oshkosh this summer...The workshop lunch is Tuesday, July 23 at 10 AM (lunch provided but RSVP) at the PHP conference tent. Plus there are daily YE forums at the Blue Barn.

Youngeagles.org/airventure
 
Mine was the only complex aircraft, and there was but one route (only 6 airplanes). I couldn't have followed their route with the Mooney unless I climbed to altitude and immediately slowed down to land, that's how tight it was. Chapter President was worried I was making things too hard for the tower. I don't give a rat's assay about those guys, they sit in a booth. I gotta fly the airplane. Happens again I'll remind him who's PIC of my aircraft.

I don't mind fiddling around to slow the aircraft down a bit in cruise. I got ideas. That said, I'm not interested in testing said ideas with kids in the aircraft.
Make friends with the tower crew.

Ours (KFTG) are fantastic. Of course the busiest time at the airport is Young Eagle Day....not exactly a super busy airport. During the 3 hours of YE, it's on the ATIS and no practice approaches allowed. New controllers are always welcome to contact any of us for a run thru the route and activities, so they can see first hand what we're doing. And of course, always invited to our lunch after the rallye.

Our other group flies KAPA - one of the 3 busiest GA airports in the country...no problem. We use the little runway (4000 ft) unless the pilot prefers the 10K runway. Good coordination with the tower. In fact the tower manager often comes down for the pre-flight briefing with all the pilots for any last-minute details that might change our regular operation.

Right before the previous tower manager retired (KFTG), she came and worked ground crew with us. She was astonished how busy it was on the ground....didn't look like it from the tower. She and hubby moved to the NW area of Front Range (Longmont, I think) and joined the EAA chapter up there to work with the Young Eagles. Even more rewarding than getting the kids interested!

Make friends with the tower crew.
 
I understand, but I'm saying I think this Troop violated the BSA policy. I'm not sure what the repercussions are. I have a friend whose kid is a Scout and he is a leader. I will ask him. I'm in no way wanting to stir anything up, but you might want to mention it to them so they protect themselves.

Honestly, if I'm in charge of making policies at BSA and I find out this one is being violated, I would probably have the leaders removed and maybe even disband the troop. It may sound harsh, but they put this policy in place because of the known molestation. The numbers I mentioned above are from an investigation they requested internally.

We have flown many scouts over the years. So the BSA would be concerned that because they have perverts in their leader ranks that one of my pilots is going to molest one of their Scouts while flying an airplane. o_O
 
We have flown many scouts over the years. So the BSA would be concerned that because they have perverts in their leader ranks that one of my pilots is going to molest one of their Scouts while flying an airplane. o_O
I think they would be concerned because their rule to protect them from being sued out of existence says there should be two adults with a minor at all times. They shouldn’t trust you or your pilots alone with a child (or anyone). If something did happen to a child who was alone, ignoring their own written rules, it might be the final nail in their coffin.
 
Right, but their policy of having two adults is for protection from molestation and they will say it also provides a level of safety on hikes if the adult is hurt.

Frankly, I don’t want to be the only adult alone with kids other than my own son. For MY protection. I have room in the back for the scoutmaster, and am happy to have him/her along.
 
I think they would be concerned because their rule to protect them from being sued out of existence says there should be two adults with a minor at all times. They shouldn’t trust you or your pilots alone with a child (or anyone). If something did happen to a child who was alone, ignoring their own written rules, it might be the final nail in their coffin.

Looking over their policy (https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/) it seems to me that the 2:1 guidance is involving "Scout Leaders". If the flight is under the auspicious of YE then (unless the pilot is also a Scout Leader) then the requirement is waived for the flight portion but in enforcement for BSA activities at the event on the ground.

As a former Eagle, I am saddened at what has become of scouting. It was a big part of my young life and it made me a better person.
 
Looking over their policy (https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/) it seems to me that the 2:1 guidance is involving "Scout Leaders". If the flight is under the auspicious of YE then (unless the pilot is also a Scout Leader) then the requirement is waived for the flight portion but in enforcement for BSA activities at the event on the ground.

As a former Eagle, I am saddened at what has become of scouting. It was a big part of my young life and it made me a better person.
My understanding is, it's two leaders with a scout, but that can be waived under certain circumstances. If in this case, the pilot and one leader is sufficient where two leaders can't be present. In my friend's case, his son is a scout. As long as his son is present, they can waive the two adult requirement. It's really about an added layer of protection.

It is sad that society has come to this. I think it's too little, too late, but at least they're trying to fix the issue now. I can imagine the lawsuit if a child said they were molested now and the lawyers could prove the two-deep policy wasn't followed. A jury would slaughter them and justifiably so.
 
Make friends with the tower crew.
Giving them a head's up when I taxi out isn't a bad idea at all. Biggest problem with slowing down is the engine gets less air flow, so it gets hotter and burns more oil. Found that out at Oshkosh last year. I'd much rather just cruise along at my normal speeds. Thankfully most of the events are at non towered airports, so I can do what I like.
 
I did it one time in the Luscombe. I enjoyed it. I do not think I would take more than one kid up at a time if I were in a 4-seater. Especially after reading at least 20% of your post (tl;dr, you know :)
 
I think they would be concerned because their rule to protect them from being sued out of existence says there should be two adults with a minor at all times. They shouldn’t trust you or your pilots alone with a child (or anyone). If something did happen to a child who was alone, ignoring their own written rules, it might be the final nail in their coffin.
The rule is no one on one. So if there's three people in the plane, the rule is being followed. There do not necessarily have to be two registered adults in the plane. Two-deep leadership means there have to be two registered adults at the activity.

BSA insures the troop and charter org as long as they're following BSA policies. If the troop violates those policies, it's possible that BSA would deny coverage if something happens, leaving the charter org on the hook.

A flight does not have to be an officially organized activity to count toward a merit badge.
 
I'm not a fan of BSA, which I'm sure will ruffle some feathers here, but after 7.8K volunteers have been banned “because of reasonable allegations of child sexual abuse" with over 12K victims, they are finally doing something about it . . . .
This is misinformation. The BSA's history with child abuse is no worse than any other org that serves youth, and better than most. That's precisely because the BSA has always been "doing something about it." Long before they're were sex-offender registries and back when child sexual-abuse didn't get prosecuted because no one would talk about it, BSA maintained its own exclusion files on those so accused so that they couldn't just go to a new region and sign up there. No other orgs did that because there were no laws that required it. So that 4H coach who got run out of Denver could go happily set up shop in Dallas. It's those files that are now being used to sue BSA. Precisely because it didn't cover up such things or try to bury it, the BSA is now vulnerable in a way the orgs that did bury it aren't.
 
My understanding is, it's two leaders with a scout, but that can be waived under certain circumstances. If in this case, the pilot and one leader is sufficient where two leaders can't be present. In my friend's case, his son is a scout. As long as his son is present, they can waive the two adult requirement. It's really about an added layer of protection.

It is sad that society has come to this. I think it's too little, too late, but at least they're trying to fix the issue now. I can imagine the lawsuit if a child said they were molested now and the lawyers could prove the two-deep policy wasn't followed. A jury would slaughter them and justifiably so.
CAP,has the same policy...min 2 seniors at all events, 2 seniors should a cadet need to do something singular. Except.....when Orientation rides. Then it’s one pilot and 1 or 2 cadets.
 
The rule is no one on one. So if there's three people in the plane, the rule is being followed. There do not necessarily have to be two registered adults in the plane. Two-deep leadership means there have to be two registered adults at the activity.

BSA insures the troop and charter org as long as they're following BSA policies. If the troop violates those policies, it's possible that BSA would deny coverage if something happens, leaving the charter org on the hook.

A flight does not have to be an officially organized activity to count toward a merit badge.
I'm not a Scout leader, so it's not something I have to be concerned with. If I was one, I would think sending a kid up in a two-seat airplane with a pilot violates this rule, which I'm copying exactly:
No one-on-one contact.
One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted.
In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster's conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths.

In case any of you are interested, here is a copy of the rules.
 
I enjoy it...Typically take 3 kids in a 4 seater. One kid "flys" us to the first airport, one kid to the next, etc. It is good fun, although sometimes long days when there is a line of kids. Pilot Isolation switch is your friend though.
 
This is misinformation. The BSA's history with child abuse is no worse than any other org that serves youth, and better than most. That's precisely because the BSA has always been "doing something about it." Long before they're were sex-offender registries and back when child sexual-abuse didn't get prosecuted because no one would talk about it, BSA maintained its own exclusion files on those so accused so that they couldn't just go to a new region and sign up there. No other orgs did that because there were no laws that required it. So that 4H coach who got run out of Denver could go happily set up shop in Dallas. It's those files that are now being used to sue BSA. Precisely because it didn't cover up such things or try to bury it, the BSA is now vulnerable in a way the orgs that did bury it aren't.
It is not misinformation, it is simply facts that were gathered for the BSA from their records. Like it or not, 12K boys were molested & that only includes the ones that were reported. This is not acceptable and that is why the leaders are not allowed to be one-on-one with the boys.

Saying it is better than most is misinformation. You have no data to prove that.
 
It is not misinformation, it is simply facts that were gathered for the BSA from their records. Like it or not, 12K boys were molested & that only includes the ones that were reported. This is not acceptable and that is why the leaders are not allowed to be one-on-one with the boys.

Saying it is better than most is misinformation. You have no data to prove that.
In fact I do have the information to prove it, as I explained. But you went further and said BSA wasn't doing anything about it. That's unequivocally false.
 
I'm not a Scout leader, so it's not something I have to be concerned with. If I was one, I would think sending a kid up in a two-seat airplane with a pilot violates this rule, which I'm copying exactly:
No one-on-one contact.
One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted.
In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster's conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths.

In case any of you are interested, here is a copy of the rules.
As I said, if there are three people in the plane, the rule is being followed. In addition to having to know the rules, I have to regularly attend youth protection training. And I'm a mandatory reporter.
 
In fact I do have the information to prove it, as I explained. But you went further and said BSA wasn't doing anything about it. That's unequivocally false.
You're misquoting me. My exact words were, "they are finally doing something about it." In my opinion, they waited way too long to implement a rule where one adult couldn't be alone with one child.
 
This is misinformation. The BSA's history with child abuse is no worse than any other org that serves youth, and better than most. That's precisely because the BSA has always been "doing something about it." Long before they're were sex-offender registries and back when child sexual-abuse didn't get prosecuted because no one would talk about it, BSA maintained its own exclusion files on those so accused so that they couldn't just go to a new region and sign up there. No other orgs did that because there were no laws that required it. So that 4H coach who got run out of Denver could go happily set up shop in Dallas. It's those files that are now being used to sue BSA. Precisely because it didn't cover up such things or try to bury it, the BSA is now vulnerable in a way the orgs that did bury it aren't.

Yeah, but in 4H, the animals never tell their secrets so there's no list to be made . . . lol I'll see myself out.
 
You're misquoting me. My exact words were, "they are finally doing something about it." In my opinion, they waited way too long to implement a rule where one adult couldn't be alone with one child.
YPT training and no one-on-one have been in place since the late '80s, at least, so if by "finally," you meant nearly four decades ago, you are correct. BSA has required character references for leaders since inception and has been maintaining a nationwide list of ineligible volunteers since the '20s. Not because it was trying to enable or protect abusers, but because it was trying to protect kids on it's own LONG BEFORE any other organization. If there's an organization that's done more and better, name it. I'm certain that BSA leadership would be interested in learning how to improve even more.
 
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I enjoy it...Typically take 3 kids in a 4 seater. One kid "flys" us to the first airport, one kid to the next, etc. It is good fun, although sometimes long days when there is a line of kids. Pilot Isolation switch is your friend though.
Curious exactly what you mean by flying to one airport and then to the next. etc. EAA rules do not allow a Young Eagle flight to land at an airport other than the one it took off from, unless the airport suddenly becomes closed.
 
I'd get a "good one" out of every 20-30 CAP cadets, when giving "Orientation Rides". Not my cup of tea, but I wanted to pull my weight. After dumping CAP a few years back, I decided to leave YE flights to the folks who like it.
 
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