New and Don’t know what to do.

Tom-D said:
It could have flown for 12 calendar months after the date of the last annual. 20 hours wouldn't surprise me.
then it only sat 2 years.
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Yeah I would guess that is about right. There were some false statements made leading up to the purchase. The previous owner and I are pretty cool now and it seems more accurate information is being divulged. I wouldn’t say anyone lied its probably that now I am asking more exact question. Previous owner is actually pretty cool guy and held plane for a day with a bunch of over asking price offers. I’m lucky I got it, well that’s how I feel anyway. Thanks again for all the advice and encouragement.
 
Tom-D said:
I'm not... experience talking.
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But I do not believe that you have any experience with this particular plane or the mechanic doing the work so what you wrote is pure guess work. The fact is that you do not know how detailed and thorough of an inspection and maintenance process it will go through. None of us do. And speaking from experience, some mechanics don’t do as thorough of a job as others.
 
ircphoenix said:
It worries me a little to hear you say you haven't started flight training, you don't know much about the process of purchasing an aircraft, you haven't gotten your medical done... all seems like you've put the cart before the horse.
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That's what I did. I wrote a check for a pretty old '57, 172, scratched my nuts, and said, "hmmmm, guess I ought to learn how to fly."

Granted, mine was at my home field and I had a good friend who was an A/P on the field. That's a bit safer than buying one 4 states away.

I'd highly recommend buying a plane to learn how to fly in. It gave me a completely different and better attitude towards my training than had I been renting. Plus, I KNEW my plane was safely maintained.
 
SkyDog58 said:
But I do not believe that you have any experience with this particular plane or the mechanic doing the work so what you wrote is pure guess work. The fact is that you do not know how detailed and thorough of an inspection and maintenance process it will go through. None of us do. And speaking from experience, some mechanics don’t do as thorough of a job as others.
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I knew you'd be the one who wouldn't understand.
Read my post and tell me what I guessed about.
When you get experience in this area you know I'm right.
Appliances like radios, instruments, alternators, starters simply don't do well after setting for long periods.
every thing may work and be airworthy now, but the next 100 hours will tell.
 
timwinters said:
That's what I did. I wrote a check for a pretty old '57, 172, scratched my nuts, and said, "hmmmm, guess I ought to learn how to fly."

Granted, mine was at my home field and I had a good friend who was an A/P on the field. That's a bit safer than buying one 4 states away.

I'd highly recommend buying a plane to learn how to fly in. It gave me a completely different and better attitude towards my training than had I been renting. Plus, I KNEW my plane was safely maintained.
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same here, only difference is I did have my medical and a student pilot license. but everytime I spoke about buying a plane to my then CFI, he told me in numerous direct and indirect ways not to do it since he wasn't confident that I will ever solo. I heard what he said (showed him the middle finger in my mind), paid little attention to it, hired a ferry pilot, went to WA , saw the plane for the first time, the ferry pilot did the pre-buy, next day flew over cascades and then at night over Midwest back home.

if one can afford it, learning in their own plane is invaluable. takes a little more time since now you are now an owner and thats a full time job by itself depending on how engaged you want to be.
 
timwinters said:
That's what I did. I wrote a check for a pretty old '57, 172, scratched my nuts, and said, "hmmmm, guess I ought to learn how to fly."
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WannFly said:
same here, only difference is I did have my medical and a student pilot license. but everytime I spoke about buying a plane to my then CFI, he told me in numerous direct and indirect ways not to do it since he wasn't confident that I will ever solo. I heard what he said (showed him the middle finger in my mind), paid little attention to it, hired a ferry pilot, went to WA , saw the plane for the first time, the ferry pilot did the pre-buy, next day flew over cascades and then at night over Midwest back home.
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^^^^This ^^^^

If I had quit every time I was told I could not or should not attempt to do something I never would have left the first grade.

I used to carry a note in my wallet that said, ''If you don't try, you have already failed.''
 
SkyDog58 said:
But I do not believe that you have any experience with this particular plane
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Maybe not this one, but I've been here before. Why do you think when I do an old birds wake up I replace every thing? This ain't my first rodeo.
 
Tom-D said:
Maybe not this one, but I've been here before. Why do you think when I do an old birds wake up I replace every thing? This ain't my first rodeo.
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I’m pleased to report that my uncle has come to the rescue. He has bunches of experience around small and large aircraft. He will be there in the am as will I to meet and observe mechanic at work. He was in Air Force in Alaska for 20+ years. I thought he might have time to come take a look and it just so happened he was en-route. I’ll have pics and posts tomorrow afternoon. Thanks again guys.
 
Madison890 said:
I’m pleased to report that my uncle has come to the rescue. He has bunches of experience around small and large aircraft. He will be there in the am as will I to meet and observe mechanic at work. He was in Air Force in Alaska for 20+ years. I thought he might have time to come take a look and it just so happened he was en-route. I’ll have pics and posts tomorrow afternoon. Thanks again guys.
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Looking forward to seeing them!
 
My best advice on this aircraft.
get ADlog.com
start it at this annual, have the A&P check and comply with every AD listed.
Log the annual in the new logs and go from there. place the old logs in safe keeping there is nothing in them that means anything anymore.
 
Tom-D said:
place the old logs in safe keeping there is nothing in them that means anything anymore.
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At least until you go to sell the plane (hence why you should keep the logs in a safe place).
 
apr911 said:
At least until you go to sell the plane (hence why you should keep the logs in a safe place).
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True, a buyer perspective not a maintenance issue, until a new AD comes out requiring research.
 
Ominously quiet, must have run into some "issues".
 
I suspect given the pictures he posted there were a lot of issues. They will get sorted out but it will take time and money. Airplanes hate to sit!
 
Man, I'm proud of this forum. You guys/galls ALMOST got to the second page before getting all negative and preachy and ****. Congratulations.

Wish I was closer so I could help out. After getting it through an annual, I'd fly it around the pattern for 30min - an hour, land, and check everything out. If it looks good, head home. Have fun!
 
I'm afraid no news is not good news. It's almost a week since "I’ll have pics and posts tomorrow afternoon" was posted. I was hoping for a happy ending to this tale.
 
It would be nice if the OP would post some updates. Clearly he ran into some issues but given the condition of the airframe that was expected.
 
OK so I have an update. I brought an A&P out from Florida. And have a pilot that is going to ferry it back to me this Wednesday. Everything was extremely difficult being that the closest airport was three hours round-trip. But we pulled all inspection plates inspected oil re-tuned spark plugs. Got entry and logbook. But now I have a new issue. Maybe I should start a new thread but I don’t know. This plane according to multiple previous owners and the FAA and now Cessna has never been issued and airworthiness certificate. Monday morning I plan on calling the gentleman in their legal department I’ve been dealing with and asking if they will just issue one now but what are my options otherwise?
 
I have learned a lot in the past two weeks. I broke my leg which slowed things down a bit. One of the plugs we bought was dropped and is not firing. But everything else looks OK enough to fly home. I was told from the FSDO in Little Rock that without an airworthiness certificate I cannot get a ferry permit. But I’ve been told now from other people at the FAA and ferry pilots that a Ferry permit is a temporary airworthiness certificate. I hope on Monday the lawyer at Cessna will provide me with a new airworthiness certificate since One was never issued. one was never issued. They have sent all their documents directly from Cessna documents they called delivery documents which are all the inspection and checklist and all paperwork required in order to sell the airplane. It’s about 58 pages. The lawyer I talk to said every other folder has an air worthiness certificate for some reason mine does not and he doesn’t have a good explanation why. I’m hoping they will just issue one for me themselves. The FAA also has no record of ever having an airworthiness certificate which they claim is a weird thing as well. The last place That did an annual mentioned on their entry that there was no airworthiness certificate. And three previous owners now can’t remember ever seeing one either. The lawyer at Cessna is real cool and easy to work with he emailed me within three days all those 58 pages of documents. I’m thinking that’s my best bet if anybody else has a better idea please please let me know. But she flies all compressions were good and I’m still as if not more excited than I was before. Thank all of you for the help and suggestions I might be needing some more in the future. I hope you’re all well thank you.
 
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Zeldman said:
You know that is just a saying and not something that needs to be actually done...

Your luck has to get better now.. :yesnod::yesnod:
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Thanks. Any advice on the airworthiness certificate? They gave me insurance without it. I just can’t wrap my head around it never have been around.
 
Thanks for the update. I've been rooting for you and sorry to hear about the paperwork issue.

Slight Aside: Not going for a witch hunt but I am curious...when a IA signs off on a annual (or anything else for that matter) is there a single line in the FAR's anywhere that require it to also have a airworthiness certificate? Anything, even something as simple as a number from it needing to be logged. And along those lines, can a IA sign off anything and list a serial number of N number if there is no airworthiness certificate.

Very, very strange that this plane doesn't have one. What is incredibly strange is that you indicated (3) previous owners couldn't remember it having one. That means every time they took off there we violating the regulations. Hopefully none of them ever had a checkride with a examiner.
 
Madison890 said:
Thanks. Any advice on the airworthiness certificate? They gave me insurance without it. I just can’t wrap my head around it never have been around.
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I’m not sure how it couldn’t have one...

Any airplane that rolls off the assembly line will get an airworthiness certificate. Seems odd.
 
Hopefully the Ferry Permit is valid in place of a airworthiness certificate...at least you can get it home.

You are learning a pretty important lesson. Just today I was taking photos of my wife's friends Citabria to help her sell it. Before we even got serious I peeked in and saw the certificate. We have photos of ours in multiple places so we at least have a paper trail.
 
Wow!

Agree with @Sinistar above. I'm trying to imaging the moment when an A&P is doing an annual, and says to him/her self: "I don't see an airworthiness certificate anywhere... but hey everything else looks fine, so I'll just make a note of that in the logbook and sign this puppy off!" Whaa?

Then I try to imagine the last three owners (??) saying to themselves: "I don't see an airworthiness certificate anywhere, but hey, everything else looks fine, so I'll buy it and fly it anyway!" How does that happen? "AROW" is like Chapter 2 of ground school...

But there must be some way of re-issuing one; after all, aircraft get rebuilt after accidents and such. No idea how that works, though... Best of luck!
 
Looks like its: N1653Y (1963 172C). Do you have a serial number for it? Maybe if share some more information a fellow POA'er will find you something useful.
 
I just did a quick internet search and a website ("Aviationdb.net) indicates the airworthiness certificate was issued on "1962-05-21". A weird comment on "2005-08-22" indicating the N Number was assigned an d registered. And that is in the a new section titled "------- Deregistered Aircraft 1 -------"
 
If a aircraft is de-registered is the airworthiness certificate required to be surrendered?
 
The site I listed and another site both indicate the same airworthiness date but both also list the "Certification Date" as "2011-05-27"...does that date mean a new certificate was issued?
 
SkyDog58 said:
I hope you don’t mean what I think you mean.
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I sure hope the ferry pilot doesn't decide to land at any larger airports. A simple ramp check and that plane ain't moving and that pilot ain't flying again for a long time.
 
I wonder if somewhere along the line a sale went south and the seller withheld the airworthiness certificate but the buyer just decided to fly it and pass the paperwork problem along. From a few searches this plane was issued the AWC on "1962-05-21" so its pretty funny that Cessna can't dig up that same number.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I call BS on it never having an airworthiness certificate. And I really doubt that the FAA said that.
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I agree...

It’s really hard to read the post about what’s going on with the terms used but I suspect the OP doesn’t understand the difference an airworthiness certificate and the registration. It appears that the registration is expired, hence the reason the FSDO won’t issue a ferry permit.
 
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