FBO Pilot Record Maintenance

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dustyblue

Filing Flight Plan
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DustyBlue
Hi All,

Have a couple of questions for the legal minded people out there about FBO maintenance of pilot records.

Q1: As an FBO operator, what records does the FAA/NTSB require you keep on file and which of those do they require you not only keep on file but keep current?

Q2: For those items which expire and are collected by the FBO, who bares the ultimate responsibility for ensuring the records are up-to-date, the FBO or the pilot?

Q2a: If the FAA/NTSB does not require the record but the FBO collects the record, does this change the party responsible for updating the record?

Q3: If the record does exist but is not on file with the FBO and a situation were to arise would the applicable authorities treat the record as if it did not exist (e.g. insurance)?

I had a dispute recently regarding flying with expired information in my pilot file at an FBO during which the Operator made several remarks that I found questionable (particularly about the FAA/NTSB only caring about what the FBO has on file and not what's in my log book) but not knowing the rules for operators/rentals, I have to assume are true. It has me questioning if I need to reach out to every FBO I fly with and request to see/review my pilot file so that I can provide them updated information.

In the last 18-months, I've flown with/rented from 9 different operators in various parts of the country and while some I no longer fly with, I currently have active rental permissions with 7 of them, actively use the permissions at 4 of them on a regular basis and am looking at flying with another 1 or 2 FBO's in the near future. In that same 18-month window, I've had my address change twice, both my driver's license and my passport have expired and been renewed, I've gotten a BFR, a renewed class 3 medical, an upgrade to a Class 2 on my "new" medical, a renewed class 2 medical, multiple certificate updates (CPL-SEL, CPL-SES, CFI, CFI-I) and 2 different renter's insurance policies. Keeping every FBO informed of every update to my profile is rather difficult (especially since not all of this information is made readily available to me to review at any time) so I dont really know how up-to-date the information on file is at each of the FBO's and/or what information has to be updated anyway.

I know for certain that only 1 technically has my CPL-SES on file as the issuing flight school but having only just received the permanent certificate in the mail last week, I have not updated the "on file" copy of the certificate with all of them though I had informed several of them of that I now had a CPL-SES. I'm also quite certain that the "on file" copy of my medical with several of them is not my most recent. I've also realized as I'm typing this that I've straight out forgotten most places have a copy of my driver's license and that I recently had my driver's license renewed so I also now know the "on file" copy of my DL is not current with at least 4 of the 9 FBO's and I'm pretty sure a 5th as I do not recall them asking for an updated DL but I have flown with them recently so maybe I did provide it/update them (or they just dont care/track it).

While I've always tried to keep my records with FBO's up-to-date as a courtesy, I've always viewed the matter as exactly that, a courtesy. My view being that I can only be responsible for myself, which means ensuring everything is "current" for both regulatory (BFR, medical, DL) and non-regulatory (insurance) purposes but, while I am happy to comply and provide updated information on request if the FBO is interested in or is required to gather and maintain such information, it is on them to maintain and enforce the updates by requesting the information when it expires whether it is required by the FAA or their policy.

No FBO has ever made an issue over expired information in my file except to request I provide updated information before releasing the plane for my flight. I dont know if an FBO prior to this has ever released a plane to me with expired information on file though since none have ever made an issue of it before now.
 
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It's the insurer of the aircraft that usually requires they keep up to date records of the qualifications and status of the renters.
 
dustyblue said:
FAA/NTSB only caring about what the FBO has on file and not what's in my log book
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Most rental agreements I've seen usually require the renter to keep their personal records up to date with the aircraft provider. Perhaps the FBO throws "FAA" into the discussion to enforce it. In my experience, the only instance where the FAA is involved in pilot records in this scenario is if the FBO operates a Part 141 school where they are required to maintain those types of records for their enrolled students.

Check your rental agreement.
 
GRG55 said:
It's the insurer of the aircraft that usually requires they keep up to date records of the qualifications and status of the renters.
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That's pretty much what I thought... So the follow-up question to that is a slightly modified 2 and new question/modified #3:

Modified Q2: Since there is no regulatory/legal requirement I keep them updated and it is their insurance policy, short of spelling it out in their renters agreement that the pilot is responsible (which even then seems inadequate protection for them), it is their responsibilty to maintain and enforce the currency of the records they have on file

Modified Q3: I realize the insurance company is likely to try to claim anything related to your ability to legally take the plane that is not on file with the FBO doesn't exist (updated BFR or medical) since they can then deny the claim on the basis the operator released the plane to someone not authorized but what about something like renter's insurance? I have to imagine the insurance company wouldn't deny a renter's insurance existed just because it wasn't on file... Though I'm sure that probably gets into a rather sticky situation regarding uniform enforcement.
 
Bell206 said:
Most rental agreements I've seen usually require the renter to keep their personal records up to date with the aircraft provider. Perhaps the FBO throws "FAA" into the discussion to enforce it. In my experience, the only instance where the FAA is involved in pilot records in this scenario is if the FBO operates a Part 141 school where they are required to maintain those types of records for their enrolled students.

Check your rental agreement.
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I dont know that I've ever seen it spelled out in a rental agreement and really for most of the information they gather for insurance purposes, it seems they just need to gather once for the purposes of saying they saw it and verified compliance of the first flight with them. From there language that you must comply with the applicable FARs usually covers it as they can say they were shown a valid pilots license, bfr, medical, etc so they verified the renter was legal at the time of the first flight and per their rental agreement the renter was required to abide by the FARs.

The language I usually see regarding regarding renter's insurance is also similar stating only that the renter is required to acquire and maintain renters insurance. Considering the liability issues in play with insurance, this is one that I've seen most often tracked and enforced in some manner by the FBO but the rental agreements I've seen dont usually spell out that you have to provide them a copy of the insurance, just that you have to have it.

The language of the rental agreement with the FBO in which I am having this dispute reads in this manner... Only first time renter's are required to provide their certificate, current medical and driver's license and there is nothing in the policy about having renters insurance "on file" except to state that renters are required to secure... ...insurance
 
dustyblue said:
The language of the rental agreement with the FBO
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I don't know specifically about keeping a "renters policy" on file, but a quick search brought up these "current info" examples which is what I've seen in the past. But this appears more a contract issue vs an aviation issue as each state has their own contract law requirements--considering you use several in different states.

It is Customer/Pilot’s responsibility to keep his/her insurance records updated with the current information
http://www.vectorair.net/images/AIRCRAFT RENTAL AGREEMENT AMENDED10_15_11.pdf

It is the renter pilot’s responsibility to keep his or her records on www.myfbo.com/unff updated with current information
http://aboveaviation.com/aircraft-rental-agreement/
 
Bell206 said:
I don't know specifically about keeping a "renters policy" on file, but a quick search brought up these "current info" examples which is what I've seen in the past. But this appears more a contract issue vs an aviation issue as each state has their own contract law requirements--considering you use several in different states.

It is Customer/Pilot’s responsibility to keep his/her insurance records updated with the current information
http://www.vectorair.net/images/AIRCRAFT RENTAL AGREEMENT AMENDED10_15_11.pdf

It is the renter pilot’s responsibility to keep his or her records on www.myfbo.com/unff updated with current information
http://aboveaviation.com/aircraft-rental-agreement/
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Hmm. First time I've encountered that... About the closest I've encountered is this:
"You are responsible for timely delivery of a copy of your required annual flight review and medical certificate to the staff prior to automatic suspension of your scheduling privileges. Allow at least 2 business days for processing."

It makes it the pilot's responsibility in so far as they wont be able to schedule once it expires if they dont provide it ahead of time and wont be able to schedule for at least until a further 2 days after it has been provided.

Obviously not saying it doesn't exist or that some FBO's are stricter than others and you've provided policies that back that up, just saying this is the first time I've personally seen it written into the policy... That also seems to back up my thought that the FBO is responsible for record maintenance unless they specifically state otherwise.

The Vector Air one does spell it out fairly well and includes such things as BFR and Medical. I'd be curious as to what type of system they have in place to keep the records and enable pilots to edit them. (As an additional aside, their currency requirements are even stricter than my home FBO's and I thought those were overly restrictive compared to most other places; will have to keep that in mind the next time I complain to someone about their 90-day in their airplane currency requirement)

The above aviation one really only covers items that normally dont change all that frequently, if at all, and are mostly just part of contact information and billing. While you may be in violation of the policy/contract, there is nothing in there that really presents an issue with flying if you are out of date.
 
Amazing, the OP is offended by an FBO that minimally requires copies of regulatory records before renting a plane.

Good risk management includes an annual check ride, an annual IPC for IFR privileges, no rentals to pilot who have not flown in the last 6 months and a current renters insurance policy on file.
 
Dean V said:
Amazing, rent a car and no one objects to the rental agency asking for a drivers license, but the OP is offended by an FBO that minimally requires copies of regulatory records before renting a plane.

Good risk management includes an annual check ride, an annual IPC for IFR privileges, no rentals to pilot how have not flown in the last 6 months and a current renters insurance policy on file.
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The analogy to renting a car is severely flawed. The car rental agency asks only to see your driver's license. You can waive their collision insurance and they dont ask to see your car insurance policy. They dont ask to see the last time you drove or if you've driven in the last 90 days or that you completed a recurrency, have driven this specific make/model of vehicle or even general type and have been checked out by an instructor driver employed by the rental agency for the same. They care only that you have a valid driver's license and that's it.

Additionally, I have already stated, I have no issue providing any information requested of me. I'm not denying them access to the information they want and I'd be happy to provide all of my documentation every time I rent if that is what is required of me.

I do however have issue with being yelled at for failing to update stored information that is no longer current and was collected and stored by the rental agency solely for the purposes of covering their rear. Especially since I was able to provide documentation of compliance as soon as it was brought to my attention that there was an issue. Again, if they want the information, I'm happy to provide it and show that yes I comply with all of the applicable FAR's and terms of the renter's policy including renters insurance and I do at least try to proactively keep such information up to date but ultimately its my thought that if THEIR records are out of date that is THEIR issue to correct by asking for updated information.

As to your "good risk management" advice which I assume is for the FBO, they do not have an annual checkride or IPC requirement (though IFR privileges are hard to get with them anyway), however they do have a 90-day currency requirement and they also have a policy requiring renter's insurance both policies I have been in compliance with but nowhere in the renters agreement does it say anything about insurance, BFRs, medical or anything else being "on file" or rather, "on file and up-to-date" (the renter's policy does say first time renter's are required to present their current medical, certificate and driver's license but says nothing about on-going renters and maintenance/updates to the previously collected information).

If your good risk management advice was intended towards me as the pilot, I have had a BFR, multiple aircraft checkouts, an IPC and multiple certificate updates all in the last 12-18 months and I carry current renters insurance and comply with all FAR's regarding required documentation whenever I fly.

I'm not so sure the idea that a failure to update a record is "bad risk management" on my part. I will agree that the FBO's failure to require and/or enforce their requirement for updated records is "bad risk management" on their part but that's THEIR risk to manage not mine.
 
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Our Club requires Members to have certain records on file and up to date at the time they book the plane for rental. We will not book it if those records are not current - for example if date of last medical on file implies it is now past expiry. Our computer system sends out an automatically generated email reminder, once only, when it finds such things. It's up to the Members to tell our dispatch desk staff when their record needs to be updated. We have 16 airplanes in our fleet and about 400 Members, some of whom are students, and we don't have time to chase them all. You wouldn't believe the number of members that complain they didn't get a reminder...and then we find they didn't bother to tell us they have a new email address. :dunno:

The recurrency on type varies greatly. For our Members it is 180 days. Across the street, one of the other operators on our field requires 90 days. This is dictated by the insurance company. Type of aircraft, accident record and such plays into it. The insurance company is judging risk. You can complain all you want, the insurance providers govern.
 
GRG55 said:
Our Club requires Members to have certain records on file and up to date at the time they book the plane for rental. We will not book it if those records are not current - for example if date of last medical on file implies it is now past expiry. Our computer system sends out an automatically generated email reminder, once only, when it finds such things.
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I’ll agree that the business doesnt have time to chase down updated information but at least the business has a system in place that notifies pilots and refuses rental to anyone without current information.

I guess that’s where the heart of the issue lies... my FBO’s systems and checks against out of date records is inadequate. They dont notify pilots in anyway that their information will or has expired, they also dont provide a means of tracking your information and they dont restrict your privileges when something goes out of date so you end up in a situation like mine where a pilot schedules a plane on a busy saturday which is fully booked, show’s up to the appointment to have it cancelled because of out of date information and get read the riot act by a member of the safety committee because your file wasnt up to date and you were going to go fly anyway.
 
Its all what the insurance company requires.
 
I would not give the rental FBO anything. They can ask for your summarized hours and to see your certs... but they are not welcome to anything more than the FAA.

When was the last time you duped everything up for the FISDO or insurance company. Answer: Last claim and/or filed incident
 
Ravioli said:
I would not give the rental FBO anything. They can ask for your summarized hours and to see your certs... but they are not welcome to anything more than the FAA.

When was the last time you duped everything up for the FISDO or insurance company. Answer: Last claim and/or filed incident
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They are also welcome to tell you they aren't renting you a plane and to have a great day.
 
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