I'm looking at getting my glider add-on and I have a quick question. I'm a private pilot with about 500 hrs PIC all in SEL. I'm wanting to get my commercial glider certificate, and I was just curious if I need to get my private add-on first or if I can go straight to the commercial. The FARs says we can be eligible for the commercial certificate if we have 200 hours in a heavier-than-air aircraft, 20 flights PIC in a glider, 5 solo flights, and 3 hours or 10 flights dual in a glider.
Glider Add-On
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BillTIZ
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I have not seen that happen, but that does not mean it cannot be done. I would have to ask our DPE.
I’ve checked the Commercial Glider Practical Test Standards, nothing there to help.
But you would have to take the Commercial Glider written exam.
Most doing an add-on at their current level of airplane certificate need not take the glider written, but should be well prepared for the oral portion of the exam.
I’ve checked the Commercial Glider Practical Test Standards, nothing there to help.
But you would have to take the Commercial Glider written exam.
Most doing an add-on at their current level of airplane certificate need not take the glider written, but should be well prepared for the oral portion of the exam.
Thanks for the info. Yeah, I plan on taking the CGX written if I don't have my commercial airplane certificate done by then (which probably won't happen).
That would be great. Thank you. Also, just because I'm curious since I can't find any info about it, can the commercial airplane written count toward the commercial glider written? Are they different exams? I have found some material that references them as two separate exams, but most things I've seen categorizes them together including test prep courses.
pilotrick
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Not really! You would have to get all of the commercial glide time and private pilot glider to qualify for the check-ride. I think it's like 100 flights total. Would be much easier to get the airplane commercial and then glider add on commercial. Here is an easy to read version of the regulations. https://www.ssa.org/GliderPilotRatings
denverpilot
Tied Down
I have heard of this being done, actually... but you do need to discuss it with the Glider DPE ahead of time so they're not surprised. You can hold a Commercial certificate with Private limitations on other categories and classes.
Here's how it works out...
Glider PTS says:
..."hold at least a private pilot certificate issued under 14 CFR 61; "
It does NOT say the Private Certificate must be in Gliders. It says CERTIFICATE. No category or class requirement.
That's based off of 61.123 (h) which says you need only hold a Private Certificate, it doesn't mention category or class.
Your pilot certificate will always be the highest certificate you've earned. If you earn a Commercial certificate in gliders and had a Private certificate in Airplanes, you will then be issued Commercial certificate that will say "Commercial Pilot - Glider" and your limitations section would say "Private Pilot Privileges - Airplane Single Engine Land".
To do the training, you'll need to be current -- INCLUDING a Flight Review whatever your certificate has privileges for today.
Here's why...
Once you're no longer flying on a student certificate, you can't "solo" the glider. You'll (oddly, but correctly) be logging PIC time when doing the required "solo" flights in the glider under the "sole occupant" logging rule. The carve-out for "solo" is so someone without a student pilot certificate can fly by themselves.
You already hold a Private Certificate, but you are not rated in the aircraft to be flown, but you are the sole-occupant. You will log PIC. ( 61.51 (e) (1) (ii) )
And you can't be PIC without a Flight Review.
FAA has been solidly consistent about the Flight Review too, here's a Chief Counsel letter where a Private Pilot asked if he needed a Flight Review when it was expired to solo a glider. They say, yes.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/data/interps/2015/newman - (2015) legal interpretation.pdf
And finally...
Aeronautical Knowledge: 61.129 (f) (2)
-----
(f)For a glider rating. A person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with a glider category rating must log at least -
(2) 200 hours of flight time as a pilot in heavier-than-air aircraft and at least 20 flights in a glider as pilot in command, including at least -
(i) Three hours of flight training in a glider or 10 training flights in a glider with an authorized instructor on the areas of operation listed in § 61.127(b)(6) of this part including at least 3 training flights in a glider with an authorized instructor in preparation for the practical test within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test; and
(ii) 5 solo flights in a glider on the areas of operation listed in § 61.127(b)(6) of this part.
-----
NOTE: It says "solo flights" here, but it's in context of being the sole-occupant of the aircraft, not logging "solo" time. No one with a Private Pilot Certificate or higher can log "solo" time. Cute, eh?
EDIT: Just remove the above NOTE part. It doesn't apply, see below.
Here's how it works out...
Glider PTS says:
..."hold at least a private pilot certificate issued under 14 CFR 61; "
It does NOT say the Private Certificate must be in Gliders. It says CERTIFICATE. No category or class requirement.
That's based off of 61.123 (h) which says you need only hold a Private Certificate, it doesn't mention category or class.
Your pilot certificate will always be the highest certificate you've earned. If you earn a Commercial certificate in gliders and had a Private certificate in Airplanes, you will then be issued Commercial certificate that will say "Commercial Pilot - Glider" and your limitations section would say "Private Pilot Privileges - Airplane Single Engine Land".
To do the training, you'll need to be current -- INCLUDING a Flight Review whatever your certificate has privileges for today.
Here's why...
Once you're no longer flying on a student certificate, you can't "solo" the glider. You'll (oddly, but correctly) be logging PIC time when doing the required "solo" flights in the glider under the "sole occupant" logging rule. The carve-out for "solo" is so someone without a student pilot certificate can fly by themselves.
You already hold a Private Certificate, but you are not rated in the aircraft to be flown, but you are the sole-occupant. You will log PIC. ( 61.51 (e) (1) (ii) )
And you can't be PIC without a Flight Review.
FAA has been solidly consistent about the Flight Review too, here's a Chief Counsel letter where a Private Pilot asked if he needed a Flight Review when it was expired to solo a glider. They say, yes.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/data/interps/2015/newman - (2015) legal interpretation.pdf
And finally...
Aeronautical Knowledge: 61.129 (f) (2)
-----
(f)For a glider rating. A person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with a glider category rating must log at least -
(2) 200 hours of flight time as a pilot in heavier-than-air aircraft and at least 20 flights in a glider as pilot in command, including at least -
(i) Three hours of flight training in a glider or 10 training flights in a glider with an authorized instructor on the areas of operation listed in § 61.127(b)(6) of this part including at least 3 training flights in a glider with an authorized instructor in preparation for the practical test within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test; and
(ii) 5 solo flights in a glider on the areas of operation listed in § 61.127(b)(6) of this part.
-----
NOTE: It says "solo flights" here, but it's in context of being the sole-occupant of the aircraft, not logging "solo" time. No one with a Private Pilot Certificate or higher can log "solo" time. Cute, eh?
EDIT: Just remove the above NOTE part. It doesn't apply, see below.
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Greg Bockelman
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Cite your source on this, Nate, because I am not buying it. If you are looking at 61.51(d), the exception is for student pilots performing duties of Pilot in Command of an Airship requiring more than one pilot. Later in the paragraph, it says "a pilot may log as solo ..." it does not say "a student pilot". And the heading for 61.51(d) is "Logging of solo flight time". It does not specify student or private or above.
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denverpilot
Tied Down
Ahh, sorry... yep... log it "solo" and "PIC" if you like. Good catch. It literally can be logged as both if you're certificated. So that's covered.
And I always forget, they allow the students to log PIC these days, too... at the same time they're logging "solo"... that's a change from long ago... 61.51 (e) (4).
Anyway, it's covered... you can go straight to Commercial Glider from Private in another category.
I'll leave the mess above there with an EDIT: note, so the thread responses make sense.
MauleSkinner
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its also probably good to note that IACRA doesn't filter the fact that you can log PIC and SOLO don't add to each other. The FAA assumes that SOLO time is also included in the PIC time you put on your application; IACRA doesn't.
If you're right at the minimum times for a certificate, this can kick it back after the fact.
If you're right at the minimum times for a certificate, this can kick it back after the fact.
tonycondon
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Yes you can add private glider to your commercial airplane certificate if you like. No knowledge test needed. 10 solo flights for private add on. 20 for commercial add on. Welcome to the dark side we have cookies.
Landing Fees
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I am hoping to get my ATP glider this year. I did a private glider add-on as a BFR and then got comm single then comm glider then CFI-G. I was told it would make me a better pilot, jury is still out on that but I certainly never got the "better pilot card" from the FAA.
Thanks for all of the info guys. I appreciate it. I interpreted the reg the same way as Nate. So I'm going to try for that and see what happens. If everything works out, I'll have my SEL commercial and CFI initial done by the time I start the glider training, so hopefully I can jump in with that done. But if I don't get it done before that, will the written for the commercial airplane count as the written for the commercial glider, or will I need to take a separate written?
MauleSkinner
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You forgot the
.MauleSkinner
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If you read the reg, I believe you have to have a commercial certificate to not need the written.
Correct. I was just wondering if the commercial written for airplanes is the same thing, or will count in place of, the commercial written for gliders. The reason I ask is because I already have my CAX written done and if that will work in place of the CGX written, that would be great.
Landing Fees
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You are excepted from taking the commercial glider written IF you have a commercial airplane certificate.
denverpilot
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He’s going the other way.
But yes, he can still do it. He’s adding Commercial glider to Private ASEL.MauleSkinner
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It's a different written.
Thanks. That's what I was needing to know.
Does anyone know if there's any test prep courses out there for the commercial glider written? All I've seen is for the commercial airplane written.
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
He’s going the other way.
Oh. Yea he can do that, will need to take the knowledge test though.
Also, I understand that ATP-Glider has not been an option since the early 80's, unfortunately.
Clark1961
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Yeah, they stopped doing transport gliders after the 50's so that's not real surprising...
Ted
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iFlyNothing
@vontresc I believe got his Commercial Glider added on to his private pilot cert.
@tonycondon How much runway do you need for a winch or auto tow launch?
@tonycondon How much runway do you need for a winch or auto tow launch?
denverpilot
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Ted
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Smart ass mode on: “Enough to clear the power lines.”
Tony has told me I don't have enough at my house without a really powerful tow plane.
Challenge accepted.
denverpilot
Tied Down
So you’re saying we need to cram an IO-550 on my STOL Skylane and a factory tow hook so we can get it off the ground at the same speed the glider comes off at Flap 20? LOL.
BillTIZ
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No, if you go glider commercial first, you need to take the glider written, then the airplane written for the airplane practical. The airplane written cannot be substituted by the glider written, as there are no power, fuel, or other performance data questions in the glider exam that are in the airplane exam. Holding an airplane commercial certificate does negate the requirement for the glider commercial written, as you already hold a commercial rating. The details are in the PTS or whatever the new name is, ACS.
Landing Fees
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You do not have to take the commercial glider written if you have a commercial airplane certificate. Trust me, I didn’t.
BillTIZ
Final Approach
Back to the original post, he wants to add commercial glider to a private airplane certificate. He will have to take the commercial glider written exam. Then if he wants to get commercial airplane, he will have to take that exam. Back to the original posted question.
And if you read my post, I said exactly what you said.
Landing Fees
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Damnit I re-read your post. I was feeling argumentative this evening. I withdraw humblest.
BillTIZ
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Excuse me if I’m butting in, I just set up an account, but I have a probably odd question regarding glider add on. In the early 80’s I logged 27 hours as PIC in gliders with 42 solo flights. Longest was 2 hrs 46 min. Before I could finish my rating there was a fire at the glider operation and they never reopened. Life happened in the meantime and I’m now current as SEL pilot with 85 hrs PIC
I rediscovered my glider log book during a recent move and am now curious about applicability of earlier solo flight count, PIC flight hrs etc to get the glider add on.
Greg Bockelman
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It all counts. Just a matter of getting proficient for the check ride.
BTW, welcome and you aren’t butting in.
BTW, welcome and you aren’t butting in.
Thanks for the speedy reply. It sounds almost too easy but I won’t argue against it. Finding the logbook that had disappeared was a huge plus.
I just found this site while trying to google the question I posed. Lots of good info and the posts I’ve reviewd so far have all been cordial unlike many forums where things get hostile when there’s a difference of opinion.
As the admin you’re going a good job keeping things positive even where there’s a disagreement or conflicting factual references.
Greg Bockelman
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We have our moments but we try hard to keep it under control.
Thanks. I am just one of 5 or 6 admins here that try to keep things under control. For the most part, we do a good job, I think.
brcase
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Not really answering your question, Hopefully someone can recommend a good one. It has been a while but I have found the resources for the commercial glider written to be a bit limited and/or of low quality compared to the ASEL commercial written resources. Makes sense as I am sure there are a lot less Glider commercial written tests administered.
Brian
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joey Oberholtzer
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vatlark
I did exactly as OP proposed and received my commercial glider rating last Thursday. I had my private SEL and I never took the private glider exam before getting commercial. If you have 200hrs heavier than air there are very minimal additional requirements. Lots of weather to learn though, arguably more than instrument.
One of my fellow pilots working in Alaska had 3500 hours and only 200 of those hours was in powered airplanes. He had his commercial glider certificate years before flying an airplane.
That dude knew his energy management, that's for sure!
That dude knew his energy management, that's for sure!