Flight lesson from hell...

[IK04]

A proper briefing prior to the flight would have established the tasks to be performed, the standards for successful completion of those tasks and an overall explanation of each persons roles and responsibilities during the flight. If the purpose of the flight was to load you up with distractions while performing night operations, that should have been explained up front.

I suspect this instructor was incompetent and had no idea how to properly plan, prepare, execute and review a flight lesson.

Did he even brief transfer of the controls? Probably not...

 

[ETres]

For some aviators, getting "CFI" added to their resume brings out their a-hole-ishness. Then when they start flying jets, they get worse and worserer.

 

[Zeldman]

Yes, I am seriously considering going back my previous instructor. At this point with so few hours remaining, I really wouldn't end up saving much by staying at this new club. And, the previous instructor was very patient, had a good sense of humor, and we seemed to get along pretty well.

I think you have made up your mind and it sounds like you need a little convincing. Now do it and get that checkride done.!! (said in my lame attempt at sounding like a yelling instructor...)


(Now for the real instructor in me) As far as the messing with the GPS and expecting you to know how to use it, if it is in the plane during the checkride, you will be expected to know how to use it.

 

[Pugs]

On my checkride, I was more prepared and at some point I politely told the DPE to stop talking because "I need to fly the plane and talk on the radio as we were getting into the pattern". I ended up passing, which was surprising because I thought the DPE would not take that as nicely.

On my private checkride the DPE asked a chart question and I told him "let me get back to you, busy aviating" His reply? "Good answer"

 

[BrianNC]

My experience is that instructors yell more when they are out of their comfort zone. Maybe he has a fear of night flying. I found out after I finished that my instructor hated night flying and only did it when forced to. I don't recall him yelling at me, but he was grumpy.

Back in the day I never could get my instructor when I was getting my private to go on a night flight with me. He just kept stalling. I went on vacation to Venice FL and while I was there went to a flight school at the airport and found an instructor and did my night flight in FL. Not sure why kept putting it off.

 

[Terry M - 3CK (Chicago)]

(Now for the real instructor in me) As far as the messing with the GPS and expecting you to know how to use it, if it is in the plane during the checkride, you will be expected to know how to use it.

1,000% agree . . . EXCEPT Jeff was new to the plane and this CFI was being paid to teach him, including how to use the avionics.

I think bad on the CFI.

Regardless of both sides of the story, whatever, you didn’t click. Move on.

If your prior CFI was strong and you were moving, finish up there and come to the club to rent afterwards . . . Or get that CFI approved to teach in the club planes.

 

[Jeff Szlauko]

1,000% agree . . . EXCEPT Jeff was new to the plane and this CFI was being paid to teach him, including how to use the avionics.

I think bad on the CFI.

Regardless of both sides of the story, whatever, you didn’t click. Move on.

If your prior CFI was strong and you were moving, finish up there and come to the club to rent afterwards . . . Or get that CFI approved to teach in the club planes.

Yes, the plane's avionics were all new to me. Got spoiled at the previous place that had newer planes with the Garmin 750. This new club has older planes, and this one had the Garmin 430 WAAS. Would have been nice to learn the thing in daylight when I could actually see the buttons. My instructor had a red flashlight, but rarely pulled it out.
As far as his general attitude goes, it's like a friend of mine said, in that I should have told this person "Look. You're an instructor, so, INSTRUCT!".
Flipping thru everything single menu via all the buttons and dials, all the while talking at warp 8 speed, then getting angry at me for not pressing the correct button, or knowing right off the bat how to get to a certain screen is not instructing.
Any ways, everyone has presented good input here. Much appreciated.

 

[SToL]

Life is way too short and flying is way too fun for all this drama! Flight instructors are buzzing around like flies. Kick that ***** to the curb and find someone who takes your flying at least as seriously as you do. Don't waste another minute or penny on this bozo.

Many years ago I met a girl who was learning to fly. When she told me she had over 90 hours I about flipped. I forget all the details, but she hadn't done several things, like her night cross country and a few other items. Anyway I went through her logbook and wrote out a syllabus for what she needed to complete. Over the next two weeks we completed everything she needed, including taking her check ride and passing.

The point is she had a horrible instructor.

If you're not progressing its either you, or the instructor. Which is it in your case?

 

[bflynn]

And in a very raised, and angry voice said "when the tower calls you, you HAVE to reply! You have to say SOMETHING!".

Tower, Bugsmasher 1234 returning to the airport, the instructor and I need to work out some things on the ground.

 

[wsuffa]

Tower, Bugsmasher 1234 returning to the airport, the instructor and I need to work out some things on the ground.

... Please have the ground crews meet us with boxing gloves and the EMTs....

 

[benyflyguy]

I'm about 65 hours into this long endeavor to get my private pilot's license, and last Friday night went up with an instructor I've only been up with twice before. We were heading out to get in my 100+ mile night cross-country flight lesson, along with 5 night takeoffs and landings as I only had done 5 before.

Once in the air, he kept messing with the GPS device, going thru every single menu item, and then messing with the two radios. Then he expected me to know how to use it, as he kept asking me to go to a certain menu, and get some information. In the dark cockpit of the old 172, I couldn't see a single button. Several times he got impatient as I struggled to find the right button, and at times, got a very condescending attitude, practically yelling at me to press the correct button.

Then, as we headed out from the airport, we got a call from the tower. I heard him basically make the reply, so I thought it was done, as he has done that before. However, it turns out he was telling me what to say! So, when I didn't reply, then froze with what to say, he jumped in, made the reply, then tells me, once again in a very condescending tone, that that is all you got to say! And in a very raised, and angry voice said "when the tower calls you, you HAVE to reply! You have to say SOMETHING!".

Then, on approach to the destination airport, my descent rate wasn't right, and he again snapped at me about not having the proper descent rate, and practically yelled at me to just leave the throttle alone instead of constantly messing with it. During the stop and goes at the airport, as I messed up a couple things, he again got a bit terse.

I was really close to telling him "that's it! I'm done! You fly the rest of the way!". The ONLY reason I didn't was because if I had ended the lesson right then and there, the whole flight would have all been for naught, and I'd need to redo the lesson.

So many times on that flight I felt he was fed up with me, as he so many times got impatient, and spoke in a way like he was talking to a 4 year old child who wasn't listening.

Absolutely the worst lesson...perhaps even one of the worse experiences in my life, as I just felt like an idiot, and perhaps I need to just quit!

A few days later though, once I calmed down about the whole ordeal, the thought hit me which was "I'm glad that terrible lesson occurred!".

Don't get me wrong...I'm not a masochist, and I hope that I never ever have a lesson like that again!

was reminded of the old saying "hind-sight is always 20/20". Many times when something happens to us the first time, and throws us for a loop, we are caught not knowing what to do, or say. But now that I've had this terrible lesson, I'll know next time what to do, and/or say! So instead of just reacting, I'll be able to act.

I also think that having such a bad lesson will make me appreciate the good ones in the future. Obviously any future lessons though will NOT be from this moron!

I don't know how people endure condescending instructors who yell and get angry. I remember one person writing about his instructor being that way, but was rather trapped into having to stay with him. I would walk away in a heartbeat, no matter what the cost!

A friend said that I should perhaps report him to the owner of the flight club. I didn't think that would be a good idea though. Sure, maybe this guy needs the feedback, but if that's the case, then he needs to hear it straight from me, and not second hand. So, unless the flight club owner asks me how it went, I'm just going to move on.

Sounds like a long flight! I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
He should be more professional. But maybe he had a long day, didn’t want to be there, had a fight with GF. Who knows. Certainly they weren’t their best. Maybe give one more chance with them and if they crap on you again find another. I’d go up and jokingly tell them that you hope to have a better flight with less yelling. It sounds like the instructor had valid reasons to critique but didn’t go about it the right way.

 

[Terry M - 3CK (Chicago)]

@Jeff Szlauko respectfully to all of the CFIs saying give him another choice - I strongly disagree.

You’re too close to the PPL for any conflict with the CFI. See if your old instructor can instruct in the club planes and, if not, get another instructor or go back to the old place.

On the 430, there used to be online simulators to teach you the box. Go through that several times in your pc on the ground/at home.

Review night flight prep in sportys or online or something. The CFI should have given you some prep homework and told you to bring a flashlight or headlamp.

Move past the instructor. Study the POH for your new plane and go through the online simulator for the 430 so you’re familiar with it.

 

[Clip4]

The quality of the lesson notwithstanding, you should have been able to navigate without the GPS.

 

[LongRoadBob]

I’m a little puzzled by the seeming requirement that the student knows the GPS system.
It seems like if a student is using a rental airplane, it could be difficult to get time on the ground to really familiarize with it. Not even sure how much juice they take, running down the battery?

Also, I am in Norway, so it might be different, but I asked if the one 172 with steam gauges is grounded, if it were possible to use the other they have with glass panel, But we have to be taught in steam.

In the plane I use, there is an autopilot, and the checklist only ever makes sure we check (at least three different places” that it is off. These are items that are not required. In bigger schools it might be you use different planes with different GPS, can it be required that you know, and use them?

 

[Skip Miller]

In the plane I use, there is an autopilot, and the checklist only ever makes sure we check (at least three different places” that it is off. These are items that are not required. In bigger schools it might be you use different planes with different GPS, can it be required that you know, and use them?

No doubt about it, Bob. You are required to be competent to operate all installed equipment in the plane, when on a checkride. (sorry, I don't have a FAR citation for this...) The OP was not on a checkride, so the CFI should have been in teaching mode. The OP has a legitimate beef with the CFI.

It sounds to me like the CFI was not familiar with the GPS knobology, and was trying to learn on the OP's dime.

-Skip

 

[Matthew]

I’m a little puzzled by the seeming requirement that the student knows the GPS system.
It seems like if a student is using a rental airplane, it could be difficult to get time on the ground to really familiarize with it. Not even sure how much juice they take, running down the battery?

Also, I am in Norway, so it might be different, but I asked if the one 172 with steam gauges is grounded, if it were possible to use the other they have with glass panel, But we have to be taught in steam.

In the plane I use, there is an autopilot, and the checklist only ever makes sure we check (at least three different places” that it is off. These are items that are not required. In bigger schools it might be you use different planes with different GPS, can it be required that you know, and use them?

If it isn't "inop", it's fair game for questions. For a VFR PP you'd probably be expected to at least be able to use the basic nav functions of whatever GPS happens to be installed. So pick a plane for your checkride and learn it.

My DPE suggested always putting in your current airport as the first point, then add following waypoints. His point: most people do direct-to (pretty common for most VFR flying) and creating a flight plan with your starting point programmed make it pretty easy to reverse the flight plan and get you back home if needed, and avoids having to spin knobs.

 

[MIFlyer]

Yes, the plane's avionics were all new to me. Got spoiled at the previous place that had newer planes with the Garmin 750. This new club has older planes, and this one had the Garmin 430 WAAS. Would have been nice to learn the thing in daylight when I could actually see the buttons. My instructor had a red flashlight, but rarely pulled it out.
As far as his general attitude goes, it's like a friend of mine said, in that I should have told this person "Look. You're an instructor, so, INSTRUCT!".
Flipping thru everything single menu via all the buttons and dials, all the while talking at warp 8 speed, then getting angry at me for not pressing the correct button, or knowing right off the bat how to get to a certain screen is not instructing.
Any ways, everyone has presented good input here. Much appreciated.

/rant People that understand how guns series navigators are controlled (probably the least intuitive piece of technology I’ve touched is 35 years of using computers), don’t understand what a flaming pos that interface is for someone who doesn’t “think” Like a gns.
/rant

First thing I’ll do when I buy is swap it. I find it vexing



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[danhagan]

Yes, the plane's avionics were all new to me ... This new club has older planes, and this one had the Garmin 430 WAAS. Flipping thru everything single menu via all the buttons and dials, all the while talking at warp 8 speed, then getting angry at me for not pressing the correct button, or knowing right off the bat how to get to a certain screen is not instructing.
Any ways, everyone has presented good input here. Much appreciated.

What was the function on the GPS he was asking for? If I was a student, my response would have been there's more than just the magenta line for navigation, and tonight we're using pilotage and VORs with a Foreflight backup not being used as the primary ...

If he got more testy the response is "I'm using CRM to have YOU dim that GPS or whatever the immediate problem from the right seat is while I aviate-navigate."

 

[N1120A]

This is the problem - the vast majority of CFIs are not teachers, they are pilots who are teaching to make a living while building hours as quickly as possible to meet ATP hours standards. They don't have any clue about how to deal with a student and actually show them how to do stuff. Good CFIs that actually enjoy the teaching side of things are maybe 20% of the lot. That is why some CFIs get tons of business and others behave like the guy you are dealing with.

^this by the way is why I don't hate the instruction on G1000 planes, yes it may be overkill on a 100 knot plane, but at least you get consistent proficiency in your instruction

Of course, you primarily fly a G1000 plane

 

[Tantalum]

Of course, you primarily fly a G1000 plane

haha I do now! But my PPL was earned on a Cherokee without any GPS whatsoever.. up until getting in the current plane I fly a few years ago every time I got in a different plane (including the Plus One planes) there would be a proficiency gap as far as getting reacquainted with the panel, etc.

At least with a G1000 setup the transition to other planes will be less encumbered by figuring new systems out

 

[Terry M - 3CK (Chicago)]

What are +1 planes? Is that a club, or you’re referring to LSA or something else?

 

[Ghery]

I got my PP with a single instructor. He had flown for an airline before. Our one night lesson (got the full 3 hours, XC and 10 takeoffs and landings) was great. We took off from OLM, did 3 stop and goes, continued up to PAE, 3 more stop and goes (on a LOOOONG runway), then up to AWO for 3 more. Returned to OLM, landed and waited for the Hobbs to tick off the last 1/10 before pulling the mixture. That was back when the plane was totally steam gauges. Nice clear night. I loved flying with that guy and miss him (he died of a heart attack a number of years ago). I never had any problems flying with him. Of course, we were friends through the local amateur radio club before I knew he was a CFII.

BTW, did the fact that we were both Amateur Extras help me the first time I had to talk on the aircraft radio to the tower at OLM? Not on your life! That was nearly 2 decades ago and I'm sure they're still laughing in the tower.

Don't worry about it. You'll finish up and get your PP-ASEL in no time.