Sport Pilot License w/ 9 Year old Convictions

[Michael Kaminski]

9 years ago I was convicted of a drug trafficking case (counterfeiting of a controlled substance). I was hit with two F5 charges that were expunged three years ago. I've undergone since some intensive ATF interviews in order to be able to get Class III firearms and had no issues but I understand the FAA is another beast, as is TSA.

I came across a post from Dr. Chien indicating some convictions in which the FAA/TSA will not allow a certification to be issued unless it's past 10 years. Being one year away and DYING to fly I decided to start my Sport Light training since I will not need my medical. Years ago I signed up for my Private Student License and was issued a certificate even after indicating past. I read a thread on here a few hours ago from years past where it stated to someone that even w/ a Sport Pilot License having a felony background (expunged or not) may still prevent me from obtaining my Sport License down the line. Is this true?

Also, the 10 year TSA limitation, has anyone been known to get a license issued prior to the 10 years?

Thanks in advance for any and all help you guys can provide!

 

[AggieMike88]

Pinging @bbchien for the correct answer instead of SWAGging this.

 

[Cruzinchris]

I think you have a good chance of getting a license. Work with the FAA and be honest with all your communication.

 

[Animosity]

I think you have a good chance of getting a license. Work with the FAA and be honest with all your communication.

Do you know what steps I should take? Should I signup for the highest level AOPA and seek legal consultation? I wasn't sure how the process works exactly. I currently have just started flying but have filled out zero paperwork. I already held a valid Student Private card as well as a valid drivers license. I guess I didn't even realize the FAA had to sign off on a Sport License.

 

[DaleB]

I don't know that Dr. Bruce would have much to offer on this specific question, since the guy doesn't need a medical. There is one question on the application for a certificate or rating: "O. Have you ever been convicted for violation of any Federal or State statutes relating to narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substances? Do not include alcohol offenses involving motor vehicle mode of transportation as those offenses are covered on the FAA Form 8500-8, Airman Medical Application Form. "

Maybe a call to the local FSDO, or even to Oklahoma City to ask about it might be your best bet. Obviously you'd want to answer that question truthfully, but there's no indication of how it will affect your chances of getting the certificate. A quick Google search seems to indicate it's a problem for a year... but you can check and be sure.

 

[dmspilot]

§61.15 Offenses involving alcohol or drugs.
(a) A conviction for the violation of any Federal or State statute relating to the growing, processing, manufacture, sale, disposition, possession, transportation, or importation of narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substances is grounds for:

(1) Denial of an application for any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of final conviction​

 

[Michael Kaminski]

I don't know that Dr. Bruce would have much to offer on this specific question, since the guy doesn't need a medical. There is one question on the application for a certificate or rating: "O. Have you ever been convicted for violation of any Federal or State statutes relating to narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substances? Do not include alcohol offenses involving motor vehicle mode of transportation as those offenses are covered on the FAA Form 8500-8, Airman Medical Application Form. "

Maybe a call to the local FSDO, or even to Oklahoma City to ask about it might be your best bet. Obviously you'd want to answer that question truthfully, but there's no indication of how it will affect your chances of getting the certificate. A quick Google search seems to indicate it's a problem for a year... but you can check and be sure.

Dale, where can I find a copy of the application for a certificate or rating (LSA). Also at what point do I fill this out? Can I do it PRIOR to spending months of lessons?

Thanks in advance!

 

[brcase]

Dale, where can I find a copy of the application for a certificate or rating (LSA). Also at what point do I fill this out? Can I do it PRIOR to spending months of lessons?

Thanks in advance!

IMO the best answer is don't send an application until you know exactly what to expect. Answering a question accurately, but not the way the FAA expects it can cause serious problems, Delays, or denial.

Even though for a you don't need a medical for a sport Pilot Certificate, I would recommend you still send an Email to Dr. Bruce Chien http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/. He will likely either be able to guide you through the Student Pilot application and make sure you don't make any inadvertent errors, Probably advise you on what to expect. Or at a minimum point you to a better resource.

Once you understand what is involved your flight instructor can assist you with filling out the Student Pilot application.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[Michael Kaminski]

IMO the best answer is don't send an application until you know exactly what to expect. Answering a question accurately, but not the way the FAA expects it can cause serious problems, Delays, or denial.

Even though for a you don't need a medical for a sport Pilot Certificate, I would recommend you still send an Email to Dr. Bruce Chien http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/. He will likely either be able to guide you through the Student Pilot application and make sure you don't make any inadvertent errors, Probably advise you on what to expect. Or at a minimum point you to a better resource.

Once you understand what is involved your flight instructor can assist you with filling out the Student Pilot application.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

Brian, I assume the "STUDENT" application is the same whether it's for Private or Light Sport correct? With that being said I DO currently hold a valid student certificate. Originally when I applied for it I had indicated "NO" to the felony question but after reading some articles online I realized I made the wrong move and had an amendment done at my local FSDO. I followed up w/ the FAA they received the amendment and still kept my student license valid.

Thanks in advance.

 

[frfly172]

Might not be a bad idea to work with the AOPA legal teams. At the least you might want to talk to the local FISDO.

 

[Clip4]

9 years ago I was convicted of a drug trafficking case (counterfeiting of a controlled substance). I was hit with two F5 charges that were expunged three years ago. I've undergone since some intensive ATF interviews in order to be able to get Class III firearms and had no issues but I understand the FAA is another beast, as is TSA.

I came across a post from Dr. Chien indicating some convictions in which the FAA/TSA will not allow a certification to be issued unless it's past 10 years. Being one year away and DYING to fly I decided to start my Sport Light training since I will not need my medical. Years ago I signed up for my Private Student License and was issued a certificate even after indicating past. I read a thread on here a few hours ago from years past where it stated to someone that even w/ a Sport Pilot License having a felony background (expunged or not) may still prevent me from obtaining my Sport License down the line. Is this true?

Also, the 10 year TSA limitation, has anyone been known to get a license issued prior to the 10 years?

Thanks in advance for any and all help you guys can provide!

What 10 year TSA limitation are you referencing? You do not need TSA clearance if you are a US citizen for a Sport Cert.

 

[Michael Kaminski]

What 10 year TSA limitation are you referencing? You do not need TSA clearance if you are a US citizen for a Sport Cert.

The list Dr. Chien has posted MANY times across many different message boards including these. This is literally the one document holding me back from setting up a medical prior to my training. I have 1 year and 3months from that 10 year period and afraid setting up a medical now would ruin all chances down the line. All I want to do is fly private, if not private then I'd settle for light sport. Right now I have to settle for paragliding, hang gliding, and paramotoring but the itch is still huge. Never did I think getting my ticket would be so difficult. I obtained a firearms dealer license and it wasn't near this painstaking. Just a few ATF visits.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/attachments/disqualifying-criminal-offenses-a-pdf.29462/

 

[brcase]

Brian, I assume the "STUDENT" application is the same whether it's for Private or Light Sport correct? With that being said I DO currently hold a valid student certificate. Originally when I applied for it I had indicated "NO" to the felony question but after reading some articles online I realized I made the wrong move and had an amendment done at my local FSDO. I followed up w/ the FAA they received the amendment and still kept my student license valid.

Thanks in advance.

If you have had your student certificate, since the amendment, for more than a year you are probably ok. Either way there not much more you can do about it now. You can continue flight training, but I think there is the possibility the FAA might review the application and Amendment and could take some action such as revoke or suspend it. If it has been more than a year I think the probability of the them taking action is low. I am just a Flight instructor and not on expert on FAA procedures, just giving you my opinion.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[Clip4]

The list Dr. Chien has posted MANY times across many different message boards including these. This is literally the one document holding me back from setting up a medical prior to my training. I have 1 year and 3months from that 10 year period and afraid setting up a medical now would ruin all chances down the line. All I want to do is fly private, if not private then I'd settle for light sport. Right now I have to settle for paragliding, hang gliding, and paramotoring but the itch is still huge. Never did I think getting my ticket would be so difficult. I obtained a firearms dealer license and it wasn't near this painstaking. Just a few ATF visits.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/attachments/disqualifying-criminal-offenses-a-pdf.29462/

I believe that reference is for jobs requiring a TSA clearance.

 

[Michael Kaminski]

If you have had your student certificate, since the amendment, for more than a year you are probably ok. Either way there not much more you can do about it now. You can continue flight training, but I think there is the possibility the FAA might review the application and Amendment and could take some action such as revoke or suspend it. If it has been more than a year I think the probability of the them taking action is low. I am just a Flight instructor and not on expert on FAA procedures, just giving you my opinion.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

I can call the FSDO tomorrow and get the exact date of the amendment. I think it was about a year and three months ago. I called OKC the other day and they said they didn't see anything ammended on my student license or that it was invalidated however they did see that there was a amendment filled out with my local FSDO. I spoke to Bruce and he said even for Light Sport certificates the FAA will look back to that "10 years since the offense happened" document. Looks like I'm still stuck Anyone want to buy a set of new Bose A20's

 

[Michael Kaminski]

I believe that reference is for jobs requiring a TSA clearance.

https://www.tsa.gov/disqualifying-offenses-factors

Bruce seems to know his stuff and stands pretty firmly behind that 10 year ruling. I wonder if I do the training, apply for the certificate, if that can screw my chances up worse after the 10 year period is up.... Any thoughts?

 

[dmspilot]

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/attachments/disqualifying-criminal-offenses-a-pdf.29462/

The citation states its source as TSA section 1544.229, which says:

§ 1544.229 Fingerprint-based criminal history records checks (CHRC): Unescorted access authority, authority to perform screening functions, and authority to perform checked baggage or cargo functions.

This section applies to each aircraft operator operating under a full program, a private charter program, or a full all-cargo program.

(a) Scope. The following individuals are within the scope of this section. Unescorted access authority, authority to perform screening functions, and authority to perform checked baggage or cargo functions, are collectively referred to as “covered functions.”

(1)New unescorted access authority or authority to perform screening functions.

(i) Each employee or contract employee covered under a certification made to an airport operator on or after December 6, 2001, pursuant to 14 CFR 107.209(n) in effect prior to November 14, 2001 (see 14 CFR parts 60 to 139 revised as of January 1, 2001) or § 1542.209(n) of this chapter.

(ii) Each individual issued on or after December 6, 2001, an aircraft operator identification media that one or more airports accepts as airport-approved media for unescorted access authority within a security identification display area (SIDA), as described in § 1542.205 of this chapter (referred to as “unescorted access authority”).

(iii) Each individual granted authority to perform the following screening functions at locations within the United States (referred to as “authority to perform screening functions”):

(A) Screening passengers or property that will be carried in a cabin of an aircraft of an aircraft operator required to screen passengers under this part.

(B) Serving as an immediate supervisor (checkpoint security supervisor (CSS)), and the next supervisory level (shift or site supervisor), to those individuals described in paragraphs (a)(1)(iii)(A) or (a)(1)(iii)(C) of this section.

(C) Screening cargo that will be carried on an aircraft of an aircraft operator with a full all-cargo program.​

(2)Current unescorted access authority or authority to perform screening functions.

(i) Each employee or contract employee covered under a certification made to an airport operator pursuant to 14 CFR 107.31(n) in effect prior to November 14, 2001 (see 14 CFR parts 60 to 139 revised as of January 1, 2001), or pursuant to 14 CFR 107.209(n) in effect prior to December 6, 2001 (see 14 CFR parts 60 to 139 revised as of January 1, 2001).

(ii) Each individual who holds on December 6, 2001, an aircraft operator identification media that one or more airports accepts as airport-approved media for unescorted access authority within a security identification display area (SIDA), as described in § 1542.205 of this chapter.

(iii) Each individual who is performing on December 6, 2001, a screening function identified in paragraph (a)(1)(iii) of this section.​

(3)New authority to perform checked baggage or cargo functions. Each individual who, on and after February 17, 2002, is granted the authority to perform the following checked baggage and cargo functions (referred to as “authority to perform checked baggage or cargo functions”), except for individuals described in paragraph (a)(1) of this section:

(i) Screening of checked baggage or cargo of an aircraft operator required to screen passengers under this part, or serving as an immediate supervisor of such an individual.

(ii) Accepting checked baggage for transport on behalf of an aircraft operator required to screen passengers under this part.​

(4)Current authority to perform checked baggage or cargo functions. Each individual who holds on February 17, 2002, authority to perform checked baggage or cargo functions, except for individuals described in paragraph (a)(1) or (2) of this section.​

 

[Michael Kaminski]

The citation states its source as TSA section 1544.229, which says:

§ 1544.229 Fingerprint-based criminal history records checks (CHRC): Unescorted access authority, authority to perform screening functions, and authority to perform checked baggage or cargo functions.

This section applies to each aircraft operator operating under a full program, a private charter program, or a full all-cargo program.

(a) Scope. The following individuals are within the scope of this section. Unescorted access authority, authority to perform screening functions, and authority to perform checked baggage or cargo functions, are collectively referred to as “covered functions.”

(1)New unescorted access authority or authority to perform screening functions.

(i) Each employee or contract employee covered under a certification made to an airport operator on or after December 6, 2001, pursuant to 14 CFR 107.209(n) in effect prior to November 14, 2001 (see 14 CFR parts 60 to 139 revised as of January 1, 2001) or § 1542.209(n) of this chapter.

(ii) Each individual issued on or after December 6, 2001, an aircraft operator identification media that one or more airports accepts as airport-approved media for unescorted access authority within a security identification display area (SIDA), as described in § 1542.205 of this chapter (referred to as “unescorted access authority”).

(iii) Each individual granted authority to perform the following screening functions at locations within the United States (referred to as “authority to perform screening functions”):

(A) Screening passengers or property that will be carried in a cabin of an aircraft of an aircraft operator required to screen passengers under this part.

(B) Serving as an immediate supervisor (checkpoint security supervisor (CSS)), and the next supervisory level (shift or site supervisor), to those individuals described in paragraphs (a)(1)(iii)(A) or (a)(1)(iii)(C) of this section.

(C) Screening cargo that will be carried on an aircraft of an aircraft operator with a full all-cargo program.​

(2)Current unescorted access authority or authority to perform screening functions.

(i) Each employee or contract employee covered under a certification made to an airport operator pursuant to 14 CFR 107.31(n) in effect prior to November 14, 2001 (see 14 CFR parts 60 to 139 revised as of January 1, 2001), or pursuant to 14 CFR 107.209(n) in effect prior to December 6, 2001 (see 14 CFR parts 60 to 139 revised as of January 1, 2001).

(ii) Each individual who holds on December 6, 2001, an aircraft operator identification media that one or more airports accepts as airport-approved media for unescorted access authority within a security identification display area (SIDA), as described in § 1542.205 of this chapter.

(iii) Each individual who is performing on December 6, 2001, a screening function identified in paragraph (a)(1)(iii) of this section.​

(3)New authority to perform checked baggage or cargo functions. Each individual who, on and after February 17, 2002, is granted the authority to perform the following checked baggage and cargo functions (referred to as “authority to perform checked baggage or cargo functions”), except for individuals described in paragraph (a)(1) of this section:

(i) Screening of checked baggage or cargo of an aircraft operator required to screen passengers under this part, or serving as an immediate supervisor of such an individual.

(ii) Accepting checked baggage for transport on behalf of an aircraft operator required to screen passengers under this part.​

(4)Current authority to perform checked baggage or cargo functions. Each individual who holds on February 17, 2002, authority to perform checked baggage or cargo functions, except for individuals described in paragraph (a)(1) or (2) of this section.​

Is it not safe to assume that any pilot via private or LS may have at some point access to these areas and thefore be privvy to following these rules as indicated by Dr. Chien?

 

[dmspilot]

Is it not safe to assume that any pilot via private or LS may have at some point access to these areas and thefore be privvy to following these rules as indicated by Dr. Chien?

§1544.1 Applicability of this part.

(a) This part prescribes aviation security rules governing the following:

(1) The operations of aircraft operators holding operating certificates under 14 CFR part 119 for scheduled passenger operations, public charter passenger operations, private charter passenger operations; the operations of aircraft operators holding operating certificates under 14 CFR part 119 operating aircraft with a maximum certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds or more; and other aircraft operators adopting and obtaining approval of an aircraft operator security program.

(2) Each law enforcement officer flying armed aboard an aircraft operated by an aircraft operator described in paragraph (a)(1) of this section.

(3) Each aircraft operator that receives a Security Directive or Information Circular and each person who receives information from a Security Directive or Information Circular issued by TSA.​

 

[Clip4]

Is it not safe to assume that any pilot via private or LS may have at some point access to these areas and thefore be privvy to following these rules as indicated by Dr. Chien?

Only if one needed an airport ID.