POTUS TFR question

FlyingMonkey

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flew out to Las Vegas for some work. Was planning on leaving here early tomorrow morning. Now there is a Presidential TFR over the surrounding airports. Am I stuck?
 
We don't get a lot of TFR that I have seen. On something most likely planned, do they not give a little warning before?
I don't mean if security is an issue, but if the president is scheduled to be somewhere, and it is publicly known, how much lead time do they give?
 
A. All aircraft operations within the 10 NMR area(s) listed above, known as the inner core(s), are prohibited except for: Approved law enforcement, military aircraft directly supporting the United States Secret Service (USSS) and the office of the President of the United States, approved air ambulance flights, and regularly scheduled commercial passenger and all-cargo carriers operating under one of the following TSA-Approved standard security programs/procedures: aircraft operator standard security program (AOSSP), full all-cargo aircraft operator standard security program (FACAOSSP), model security program (MSP), twelve five standard security program (TFSSP) all cargo, or all-cargo international security procedure (ACISP) and are arriving into and/or departing from 14 cfr part 139 airports. All emergency/life saving flight (medical/law enforcement/firefighting) operations must coordinate with ATC prior to their departure at 725-600-7013 to avoid potential delays.

B. For operations within the airspace between the 10 nmr and 32 nmr area(s) listed above, known as the outer ring(s): All aircraft operating within the outer ring(s) listed above are limited to aircraft arriving or departing local airfields, and workload permitting, ATC may authorize transit operations. Aircraft may not loiter. All aircraft must be on an active IFR or filed VFR flight plan with a discrete code assigned by an Air Traffic Control (ATC) facility. Aircraft must be squawking the discrete code prior to departure and at all times while in the TFR and must remain in two-way radio communications with ATC.

C. The following operations are not authorized within this TFR: flight training, practice instrument approaches, aerobatic flight, glider operations, parachute operations, ultralight, hang gliding, balloon operations, agriculture/crop dusting, animal population control flight operations, banner towing operations, sightseeing operations, maintenance test flights, model aircraft operations, model rocketry, unmanned aircraft systems (UAS), and utility and pipeline survey operations.

D. UAS operators who do not comply with applicable airspace restrictions are warned that pursuant to 18 U.S.C. Section 3056A, 10 U.S.C. Section 130I, and 6 U.S.C. Section 121 (as amended), the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), United States Secret Service (USSS), and the Department of Defense (DOD) may take security action that results in the interference, disruption, seizure, damaging, or destruction of unmanned aircraft deemed to pose a credible safety or security threat to protected personnel, facilities, or assets.

E. FAA recommends that all aircraft operators check notams frequently for possible changes to this TFR prior to operations within this region.
 
If you can file IFR or VFR, you can get out other than the 30-60 min of POTUS landing and departure. I’m guessing the TFR centers over Nellis AFB.

Just checked...nope, using McCarran and not the AFB.
 
So if I’m in the outer ring I can fly out IFR? Can anyone help me and tell me if i could do that from north Las Vegas KVGT? Plane currently at McCarran but could reposition it tonight before TFR.
 
@FlyingMonkey - Henderson looks clear of the outer ring. VGT is in the outer ring.

I'd boogie over to Henderson if I was you. 6.5NM Nice airport, easy to get an Uber or rental car.

From SkyVector:
TFR.JPG
 
So if I’m in the outer ring I can fly out IFR? Can anyone help me and tell me if i could do that from north Las Vegas KVGT? Plane currently at McCarran but could reposition it tonight before TFR.

I believe VGT and LAS are both within 10 nm of Trump Tower which I will assume is where he’s staying.
 
We don't get a lot of TFR that I have seen. On something most likely planned, do they not give a little warning before?
I don't mean if security is an issue, but if the president is scheduled to be somewhere, and it is publicly known, how much lead time do they give?
Usually between 24-48 hrs. But I only get email alerts when the TFR is near my home base, so I could see flying cross-country, paying attention to your business and not checking TFRs daily, and getting caught off-guard like FM did.
 
I believe VGT and LAS are both within 10 nm of Trump Tower which I will assume is where he’s staying.
I think these sorts of TFRs are centered on the airport where AF1 lands, not where the POTUS is once he's on the ground.

It's different when the POTUS goes someplace frequently, like when GWB used to visit his ranch in Crawford, TX or when Trump goes to Mar-a-Lago. Those sorts of places usually have TFRs over them whether POTUS is there or not.
 
I think TFRs are centered on the airport where AF1 lands, not where the POTUS is once he's on the ground.

Nope. Since I check them in Florida (where he comes a lot) I learned. If you read them closely the 10nm ring is centered on where he will be and sometimes follows him as he moves. It'll be centered over the airport where he lands at the time he lands (and takes off) but then move to wherever he's staying, meeting etc.
 
So if I’m in the outer ring I can fly out IFR? Can anyone help me and tell me if i could do that from north Las Vegas KVGT? Plane currently at McCarran but could reposition it tonight before TFR.

According to skyvector, KVGT is 8nm from McCarran.

KBVU is 16nm from McCarran so that might be doable.
 
Looks like Henderson would work. Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I’ll fly there tonight after work and file a flight plan for the morning departure.
 
KBVU is 16nm from McCarran so that might be doable.

That's a long sssllloowww drive to Boulder City.

As an aside, is SkyVector TFR depiction assumed to be accurate, or no?

I'm sure a call to a briefer or the airport can confirm.
 
Its always advisable to read the Notam but having flown in Presidential TFR's a couple of times, here's what I know:

10-30 NM Outer Ring - VFR/IFR arrivals/departures and general flight permitted but you must be on a discrete squawk assigned by ATC. You can not loiter in the area, you are expected to "exit" the area (by landing or flying out of it) in an expeditious manner consistent with safety and direction of flight. In other words, you cant turn circles in the sky but if you take off and need to make a 180 degree turn for your "on course" heading, fly a less than direct course around the inner ring in order to exit on the other side or are flying maneuvering in the traffic pattern, nobody's going to yell because you didnt go direct.

0-10 NM Inner Ring - VFR/IFR arrivals/departures prohibited except as defined by the Notam. Usually this is limited to scheduled air carriers, especially if the airport is a satellite airport (i.e. if POTUS was using Nellis, McCarran (LAS) and North Vegas (VGT) would both be satellites). The inner ring does not have to be centered on an airport (such as when Trump is in Bedminster, NJ) and in such situations, no airport is considered the primary; they are all satellites. When the inner ring is located at an airport, you can usually get approval to enter or exit the airport in question but it requires a TSA/Secret-Service screening. On departure, they will usually screen you at the airport. For arrivals they usually have a second airport located outside of the inner ring to which you must first fly, land and be screened before departing "directly" (no additional stops allowed) for the primary airport on an assigned squawk. This was regularly the case when Obama summered in Martha's Vineyard.

Again my experience is not a substitute for your own judgement and interpretation of the TFR and the TFR's do not always have the same language/restrictions.
 
flew out to Las Vegas for some work. Was planning on leaving here early tomorrow morning. Now there is a Presidential TFR over the surrounding airports. Am I stuck?

Call the USSS and get a departure code.
 
Read the NOTAM, file, and do what ATC says. Part B is the critical part that spells it out well
 
These TFRs are so disruptive, I sure hope nobody from Colorado ever gets elected president.

Obama use to hit Los Angels what seemed like every month... got to the point where I gave up driving in and around LA while there as a TFR in place... let alone go flying..

I did get to see the motorcade once with Regan.... they literally shut down streets. The cost must be huge...
 
they literally shut down streets. The cost must be huge...

Yeah, I can only imagine how many millions of taxpayer dollars are wasted on each trip. If Hickenlooper ends up on the ballot, I think I'll vote for whoever the other guy is just to try and avoid presidential TFRs here in Colorado.
 
Yeah, I can only imagine how many millions of taxpayer dollars are wasted on each trip. If Hickenlooper ends up on the ballot, I think I'll vote for whoever the other guy is just to try and avoid presidential TFRs here in Colorado.

Here is what the TFR look like for this afternoon....

LA TFR.jpg
 
Obama use to come every month and he would land at LAX at 3pm. They shut down the streets as he drove to his event in middle of rush hour. Gee, thanks.
 
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It’s a shame these jokers don’t understand the adverse economic impact of their actions on others.
 
I am based at KLNA, the GA airport most affected when Trump is in town. The airport is in the inner ring and is shut down. But it is far from every weekend and he went for months without coming when things were hottest recently in DC. I understand that you can fly into inner ring of the TFR with 24-hours notice by landing first at KFXE, the gateway airport, and meeting with TSA who will search your a/c and verify pax, etc. I don't know though if you can get out of KLNA because I do not think they have TSA stationed at KLNA for the search. Folks here just move a/c to KFXE or F45 when the TFR is in effect.
 
It's shutting Torrance down entirely. I'm annoyed. At least when Obama came he stayed on the north side of LA and Torrance was just outside the inner ring of LAX. Fortunately that was only once every other month or so. I feel bad for the guys in Florida that have to deal with it every weekend.
During the summer when he is in Bedminster most weekends he shuts down quite a few operations as well. N51 and KSMQ are to get some financial compensation due to the repeated weekend shutdowns.

https://observer.com/2018/05/house-bill-would-reimburse-airports-near-trumps-bedminster-golf-club/

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/february/15/president-signs-spending-package
 
It’s a shame these jokers don’t understand the adverse economic impact of their actions on others.
I bet people that want to shut down small airports say the exact same thing.
 
Follow up post to my original post. With the clarification help from those here, I read the TFRs carefully. They actually changed some times and added one for VPOTUS. Bottom line was I would definitely not be able to get out during the TFR from KLAS from 10pm to 1pm the following day (which was today!). We had plans to depart early and have a fun day at the Grand Canyon. The added/changed one was for 7:30-8:45 but aircraft departing or arriving KLAS were allowed. I flew the plane out of KLAS over to KHND which indeed was in the OUTER ring and I was able to depart out of there early this morning with a filed VFR flight plan.

Very grateful to the Las Vegas Approach controllers and the KLAS tower controller for treating me like everyone else there. They were so kind and accommodating.

While i was holding short for departure last night during my repositioning flight to Henderson they shut down all movement for 5-10 minutes for The VIPs. It was super weird to be tuned to tower and just have what is normally a non stop call fest go completely silent for that duration.

Thanks again for all the replies. It really worked out. I am going to start specifically searching for planned FUTURE presidential tfrs before any planned trips. This one got me by surprise since it is out of my home area and I only receive the aopa alerts for my home area and since I arrived several days earlier.
 
Glad everything worked out okay for you. I don't see much point worrying about future TFRs because, if my experience at KLNA is any indicator, they're not going to give you more than about 48 hours notice on a presidential TFR.
 
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