Thoughts on the Cessna 140 and useful load

texasclouds

texasclouds

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I've been looking at these planes for a potential first plane purchase. It seems like legally flying them with full fuel and a passenger is not going to happen unless the plane was left stock from the factory.

Here is an example: C-140 w/ alternator conversion, C-90 conversion engine, metalized wings, 24 gallon fuel capacity, minimum VFR instruments, useful load 422 lbs.

24 gal x 6 = 150 lbs

422 - 150 - 175 (me) = 97 lbs.

Wife weighs 130.

I've been told metal wings adds 24 lbs, so a rag wing would let me carry a 121 lbs passenger.

Now maybe I should only be counting the usable fuel 21 gallons, 21 x 6 = 126 lbs. That's +24 lbs, so I could haul a 145 lb passenger in this case. Or the wife and baggage.

Most of my buddies are going to be closer to 200+ LBS, but I probably won't do alot of flying with them. Probably going to be 70% solo, 30% with wife.

Thoughts?

Pic from a Barnstormers listing:

c140.jpg
 
I've owned two and you're right, they don't have much payload. Even with fuel less than half, two 200 lb guys and you'll use a whole lot of runway!

I've had metalized wings on one... my recommendation is stay away. Fabric is great and lighter. Some metalizing jobs aren't that good anyway. You have to be careful thinking the metalizing adds 24 lbs... I've always heard 50-100 lbs depending on who did it and which STC they used... there are 3 versions! If you really want metal wings, you can get a 140A, and most of them have an O-200, so you'll get a little more horsepower. I found it lot easier to take off with a load.

Most 140s will have a C-85 unless upgraded. I had a C-90 in one of mine and couldn't tell the difference in that and the C-85.

On this particular 140 you're looking at, I'm not sure what he means by 24 gallon wings. They came standard with 12.5 gallons per side, so I'm assuming he means they have the original tanks. The panel looks rough, but the seats are very nice. Unless the overhaul was done 20 years ago, it looks like a fair price. Oh, and the yokes are upside down! You'll find that with bigger guys. I'm 6' 220lbs and never had an issue with them the correct way.

And since you didn't ask for these opinions, I'll keep going!
I like two other plane on Barnstormers better. They're only slightly higher.

1946 CESSNA 140 • $14,000 • FOR SALE • TTAF 4283.5 TSMOH 100 hrs.
  • Good looking plane - use the difference in money to put an interior in it (or fuel!)
1948 CESSNA 140 • $25,000 • FOR SALE • TT: 3210 Engine TSMO: 1205 C-85
  • One of the few custom paint jobs I actually like. Good looking plane, clean interior, etc.
 
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Personally i would avoid metalized wings for this reason. I thought I remembered the 140A with factory metal wings has better useful load though.

I do like them a lot. Ground handling is better than a citabria IMO, but climb is “stately”, lets say.
 
Just get a 48 Cessna 170 and get what you need.
you know I like the rag wings. :)
 
I'm watching the 170 listings as well. I really like the looks of these planes.

Should have bought @pigpenracing 's 140 before he sold it. That thing was awesome!

I'm still on a waiting list for a nearby hangar and have to finish my checkride and tail endorsement.
 
texasclouds said:
I'm watching the 170 listings as well. I really like the looks of these planes.

Should have bought @pigpenracing 's 140 before he sold it. That thing was awesome!

I'm still on a waiting list for a nearby hangar and have to finish my checkride and tail endorsement.
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In bryan? Thats a nice little airport.
 
Done learnt to fly in a 120 with metalized wings. As noted by others, with fuel and multiple people, climb is less than stellar.

Rounding off helps when you do the W&B. Or, as the post office says, "If it fits, it ships." :)
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Done learnt to fly in a 120 with metalized wings. As noted by others, with fuel and multiple people, climb is less than stellar.

Rounding off helps when you do the W&B. Or, as the post office says, "If it fits, it ships." :)
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I wish we had a TG to fly for my private training. I have most of my hours in a 172 and have to get additional training for TG endorsement (2 hour drive away), and have to have 5-10 hours dual in the exact model TG I plan to buy for insurance appeasement. If I buy a 140 our of state, I can try to talk a TG CFI to fly it back with me to get the hours. Ain't no way I'm going to buy a 172 with the current pricing.
 
Reassembled/repaired a ragwing 140, put in a O-200 - and flew it for the 10 hours endorsement.
I was 180, cfi was 140, we had full fuel at 4800'msl, 20C a several times.
Immediately after the 10 hours I sold it for something with 3x the HP - at this elevation you get tired or (or maybe scared by) struggling for enough altitude to get over the local hills.

One person, half tanks, puttering around on a calm cool day would be fine.
 
If you want metal wings, buy a 140A; mine seems to do ok with two ~160lb guys and an O200.
 
Somewhere between Anchorage and Northway in a 120 with two people / very limited camping stuff.
fdRZfs_hc4jIgsY0qTkoyEWrQsZKE8PY2AUqImhbumjsxe6-ipks22u1WFvMxvSw-Zl9b6e3qx8v28lk26ofnpltRXToKfFN6cUY2NwwBoXi5EjhjLR6WMZEMudYD6NCRhsT_RBZ_GoVEgPmlm1XraUAcc77nhpyk7Z-AJ0KDgaVvzi53iB8YEQnFUWee7Xeo6aLoZJvnPZk3G8NTFvheIhiLDewcU49EHIinlRwJgKnvNaqKiuO-2-p6rZMmGmCwa2d2qlzz0S3Y30bi9B8GHbIkq4eFhVXMCZYSVimKN1xc2gidf-ljNEDRVqAnD-01EToS_jDV8ThE2Ksc0XUD-Xc2ojqPuJU_JLl7rq84Nc_U9hQkwYoLLCev0H6AXMGqKnyKFjIa3iOWFwQfksMxadRMFo8-QUV2c_t-hl5X8CfFVjynKiVvHQMbdjqYRI3DKQBL_qJRkbHMg0nxiWmpWdSF3zXq_kOusadcLSN3yMXI-P5bPXyI3H1ViIBYDxocI2lwvUTMxzTg1PwQto6KRC90W0Qk3bAPOixhMpWzlOXY9vCm3jHBVO2GeHHDtAFuV4K2ByIkzv3QHWYIUgAOqNGDDNWXuE8oecSzQ0SukCDQ-HZvIiGGeU938rBPNxyPlX26RL7oScQAco_H-HrJIQ9CkpKsA=w1404-h939-no
 
I love mine! Haven’t had it over a summer but I figure if she’s too slow in climb I’ll have the prop twisted- I’m obviously not in a hurry or wouldn’t have bought a 140...

I have the c85 with 0-200 goodies inside her, in winter solo I climb out over 1000fpm, 600 with a passenger and full tanks... there’s lots of weight loss that can often be done on them.

25 gallons is 5 hrs, or 4 fliable for me... I love Shirley (planes name) but 2 to 2.5 hrs is plenty between leg stretch n pee break so easily could leave some fuel behind if need be. No they aren’t a workhorse to haul heavy loads but she’s insanely simple and burns 5 an hour at best.

Both of my TW instructors whom are high time TW guys were impressed with her all the way around, they loved how she flew.

I didn’t look at specific one u were looking at but m and m I’m happy with.
 
texasclouds said:
Bryan or Hearne. I work in Hearne, so that would be ideal to be able fly a couple hours after work.
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You don't want to live in Hearne.?? :lol:

I didn't notice where you are at until now. I was born and raised in Bryan. I spent a lot of time in Brazos and Robertson counties as a teenager.
 
texasclouds said:
I'm watching the 170 listings as well. I really like the looks of these planes.

Should have bought @pigpenracing 's 140 before he sold it. That thing was awesome!

I'm still on a waiting list for a nearby hangar and have to finish my checkride and tail endorsement.
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I can’t agree more on the look of that era of TW Cessnas.

Remember on engine it’s not just SMOH nor just the date of the OH, but any long periods of no use to factor in too. My buying mentor told me, “buy an engine with a decent plane around it with the cost of OH being more than buying the plane”. I wasn’t able to find any that had low hours and recent OH, heck very few at all with recent OH at any hous.. So my figuring was next best thing was regular use... mine had 710 since OH 18 years ago, looked at logs and those hours were spread over the years almost perfectly even. Now I can’t assure all 40ish a year weren’t put on in 2 months and she sat for 10 months, but it seemed a better buy and bet than a 300 SMOH done in ‘74, which many I looked into were...
 
Zeldman said:
You don't want to live in Hearne.?? :lol:

I didn't notice where you are at until now. I was born and raised in Bryan. I spent a lot of time in Brazos and Robertson counties as a teenager.
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I read that and thought, how in the heck does a guy in AK know about Hearne?!!

I grew up in bryan and my family is from franklin. Small world!
 
I know some people love polished aluminum, but it just looks like work to me. I would just buy a painted one, though, unless it was a screaming deal.
 
Old97 said:
I know some people love polished aluminum, but it just looks like work to me. I would just buy a painted one, though, unless it was a screaming deal.
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I was really shocked and disappointed when he painted it. It was his plane, so his choice, but to me he ruined a polished airplane and it can never be polished again. It was a beauty. He said he painted it because he was sick of polishing, but then he ended up selling it!
 
texasclouds said:
I've been looking at these planes for a potential first plane purchase. It seems like legally flying them with full fuel and a passenger is not going to happen unless the plane was left stock from the factory.

Here is an example: C-140 w/ alternator conversion, C-90 conversion engine, metalized wings, 24 gallon fuel capacity, minimum VFR instruments, useful load 422 lbs.

24 gal x 6 = 150 lbs

422 - 150 - 175 (me) = 97 lbs.

Wife weighs 130.

I've been told metal wings adds 24 lbs, so a rag wing would let me carry a 121 lbs passenger.

Now maybe I should only be counting the usable fuel 21 gallons, 21 x 6 = 126 lbs. That's +24 lbs, so I could haul a 145 lb passenger in this case. Or the wife and baggage.

Most of my buddies are going to be closer to 200+ LBS, but I probably won't do alot of flying with them. Probably going to be 70% solo, 30% with wife.

Thoughts?

Pic from a Barnstormers listing:

View attachment 73056
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Yep by the book not many airplanes do what people actually do with them. I took your big ass up in the 140 with full tanks :D
The one I like is aerobatic training... I owned a Decathlon and a Pitts S-2C which people use as aerobatic trainers each day. By the book there is no possible way you can fly with fuel, 2 parachutes and average size people. So How do all these aerobatic flight schools train people? They have to be quite a bit over gross.... There is no way around it. So what happens if they ground loop and tear up the plane? Does insurance check the weight and balance and say sorry but we are not paying?
2 fools bought my J-3 awhile back and by my calculations they were about 200 lbs over gross! I told them not to fill that extra tank and not to fly in a 20 knot crosswind. They knew better and destroyed the plane before it got out of the airport. I was really surprised that their insurance paid and never looked at the weight and balance! They told the FAA guy it wasn't making good power..... No crap.... It was a 75HP Cub WAAAY overloaded!
 
pigpenracing said:
2 fools bought my J-3 awhile back and by my calculations they were about 200 lbs over gross! I told them not to fill that extra tank and not to fly in a 20 knot crosswind. They knew better and destroyed the plane before it got out of the airport. I was really surprised that their insurance paid and never looked at the weight and balance! They told the FAA guy it wasn't making good power..... No crap.... It was a 75HP Cub WAAAY overloaded!
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And that's a real shame. That was a great airplane... I know 'cause I flew it all the way from Florida.
 
Lowflynjack said:
I was really shocked and disappointed when he painted it. It was his plane, so his choice, but to me he ruined a polished airplane and it can never be polished again. It was a beauty. He said he painted it because he was sick of polishing, but then he ended up selling it!
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Just adds weight. :sigh: The enemy of lift... :frown2:
 
AFAIK, the certification standards required a minimum useful load of 1ea 170lb person in each seat, and a minimum of one hour of fuel. Our old Cessna 150 would take two decent sized guys in the seats, and roughly half tanks. (I weigh 220, and my brother was a bit less at the time)

Another consideration, is since the cabin with was designed to accommodate 2ea 170lb pilots (who were 73 inches tall) the cabin is pretty cramped when the pilots have more "girth."

Another consideration is that many of them were originally certified with just basic day VFR instruments (sans radios) so that eats useful load as well...

Cheers!
 
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My TX office is about a mile from Coulter Field and I'm a real Alaskan. ;)

Add a Pacer, Colt, Luscombe, Stinson, Taylorcraft, Interstate, etc to your starter plane list. There are lots of good, honest airplanes out there. Narrowing your focus isn't a good strategy to find the best airplane.

My Alaska, right now.
BA4BF8C6-CE9B-4078-947A-D59553E865B7.jpeg
 
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Shepherd said:
My buddy refers to his C-140 as a nice 1-1/2 person airplane.
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That's the same thing I say about my 150M. Luckily I only weigh 150, so I have more options, but there are still times I still have to leave some fuel on the ground, basically any passenger over 170 lbs. That'll improve a little more in a year or two when I get the dual G5s in and pull the vacuum system.

Is the 140 the same as the 150 in that the unusable fuel is included in the empty weight?
 
After a summer of flying her and taking my 140 to high DA, I gotta say I’m impressed... VGs added really gets ya in ground effect faster, learning to pop full flaps shortens it even more. I was at about 1350 out west and she did just fine... dealt with 6-8k DAs. As long as you weren’t in short stuff and could pop her into GE ASAP and stay there to get up to 65-70 I climbed out at 400fpm no prob...
 
One warm summer I got a check out in a 90hp rag wing 140. Between the CFI and myself, the self loading ballast was right around 400lbs. We put about a 1/2 tank of gas in for those flights. It handled just fine.
 
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