Atkins vs Keto

[DaleB]

If you have a weight and pre-diabetes problem aand losing weight is a matter of survival, by all means use keto to get it down to a safer level. Unless someone can show me good long term data to support it, I remain skeptical regarding keto as a long term nutritional strategy. Because we can survive on a diet devoid of carbs doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea to do so for decades (I am familiar with it as a strategy to treat a particular type of childhood seizures since the 90s, but those kids have many confounders that would affect any long term data so again it may not apply to gen pop).

Time will tell. And the diet is not devoid of carbs; it just strictly limits carbs. The things I gave up were, almost without exception, things I should have given up anyway. Factory produced bread, sugar, etc. I figure that IF this doesn't clamp my arteries shut, it will take me a year or so to get down to my goal weight. Pretty sure at that point I could either stay with keto, or go back to my previous diet since I hadn't gained any weight over the past few years. I'd hovered right around the same weight, give or take 5-6 pounds. My body, though, is telling me it likes this way of eating. The two close family members I have keeping a close eye on seem to be doing exceptionally well also.

Like anything, though, one size does not fit all. People have widely varying body chemistries and metabolisms. I know people who have far worse eating habits than I do (and don't exercise), and are thin and fit. ::shrug:: I don't pretend to understand why we are the way we are, and I've already figured out that group studies don't mean diddly to an individual. You're just playing the odds. I'm just trying to find what works for my anecdotal case of one.

 

[simtech]

There’s a huge carnivore community out there that eats no vegetables, lost tons of weight, and are healthy and fit. To say vegetables are a must is basically an opinion. You can find many articles to support both sides.

I was refering to the post about his friends being on Keto and not having fiber. Your fiber comes from veggies (or fiber supplemets, but watch out because some contain sugar), if I dont get my fiber my guts turns to a brick. Carnivore diet has a cult following just like Keto, and atkins, and IF..haha its all really fad if you ask me in which I too take part in.

 

[BrianNC]

I was refering to the post about his friends being on Keto and not having fiber. Your fiber comes from veggies (or fiber supplemets, but watch out because some contain sugar), if I dont get my fiber my guts turns to a brick. Carnivore diet has a cult following just like Keto, and atkins, and IF..haha its all really fad if you ask me in which I too take part in.

As well as the cult of vegans and vegetarians who only eat vegetables and meat eaters are the devil.

 

[mryan75]

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. I have friends on a "Keto" diet that when we checked what they were eating had almost 0 fiber intake. Of course research has shown low fiber intake = higher risk of some cancers. I have actually had people argue with me and tell me that meat has fiber in it. It does not.

I think the bottom line is what are your goals with any particular diet? People living the Blue Zones are the worlds longest lived people. None of the people living in the Blue Zones eat a Keto diet.

Ultimately most people will find and cite "studies" or news articles that go along with the diet or lifestyle that they want to follow.

If they aren't eating veggies it's not Keto. Which just reinforces that most people have just renamed Atkins "Keto" without actually learning what it is. Keto is not Atkins. I can't say it enough.

 

[DaleB]

If they aren't eating veggies it's not Keto. Which just reinforces that most people have just renamed Atkins "Keto" without actually learning what it is. Keto is not Atkins. I can't say it enough.

And neither one excludes, or even limits veggies. Grains, yes. Vegetables, no. Corn is not a vegetable.

 

[DaleB]

Weighed myself this morning. Down another pound. That's six week, six pounds. I can live with that.

So here's the unusual part, at least in my experience. For breakfast, I had a cup of coffee with a little half & half and maybe a teaspoon of butter. Wife is taking a carb day, we have houseguests, so they went out and got a box of donuts. Now, a good old fashioned donut is my personal Kryptonite, and there were 4 in the box. I really wasn't even tempted. They're still down there in the kitchen, and whatever her sister and our niece don't eat will get tossed. I didn't get hungry until well after noon, and then I just had a keto bagel with some salmon cream cheese on it. That will hold me over until dinner for sure. I'm just not anywhere near as hungry, as often as I was before. On the Atkins-style, high protein low carb diet, it seemed like I was always craving the missing carbs.

 

[dtuuri]

I had a cup of coffee with a little half & half and maybe a teaspoon of butter.

Yuck! If someone made me eat a spoonful of butter I wouldn't want to eat for long time either.

 

[BrianNC]

Yuck! If someone made me eat a spoonful of butter I wouldn't want to eat for long time either.

I think he means the butter melted in the coffee.

 

[nauga]

I think he means the butter melted in the coffee.

*shudder*

Nauga,
who puts coffee in his coffee

 

[weilke]

As well as the cult of vegans and vegetarians who only eat vegetables and meat eaters are the devil.

I have encountered keto and carnivore evangelists who are every bit the intolerant arseholes that you usually find in the vegan world. It's one thing to say 'hey, I have this special way I eat and it works for me to become healthy, ask me about it if you want to hear more'. It's something else to pester everyone you meat with your gurus newest YouTube video and to accuse anyone who isn't excited as being a part of a huge establishment conspiracy. Also, unless you have an actual food allergy, I don't feel any obligation to provide you with something to fit your fad diet if I have a cookout. I guess I could pull the patties from a burger and give the buns to the vegans and the patties to the carnivores.....

 

[BrianNC]

I have encountered keto and carnivore evangelists who are every bit the intolerant arseholes that you usually find in the vegan world.

True, but most of them that I've seen do that in response to the radical vegans who have been around a lot longer than 'carnivores'. And you never see keto or carnivores storming vegetarian/vegan restaurants, confronting people eating their meals, confronting people fishing, and being violent in a lot of cases, etc, etc. Like I said, most of it is in response to how radical many vegans are.

 

[jaymark6655]

Calories in - calories out = delta(weight).
Nutritional studies are notoriously difficult to do properly because the tools for tracking humans are really bad.
Eat a balanced diet. Exercise. Have good genes. Live long and prosper.
Keep track of what you eat. I use MyFitnessPal. It's linked to my GarminConnect site that grabs data from my Garmin VivoSmart HR so I get a reasonable analysis of my intake and exercise budget.
Track your weight weekly and adjust caloric intake and exercise as appropriate.
Typically you should lose 1 - 1.5 lbs per week max.
It ain't rocket science but it ain't easy either (currently trying to drop back to a more reasonable weight and damn I love me a big old juicy burger with a pile-o-fries and a real milkshake).

Almost looks like what I was going to write, I use a Garmin VivoActive HR with GarminConnect linked to MyFitnessPal. My dad is on Keto and I think is pretty good, but there are a few things I don't like from a nutritional point of view. One is the lack of nuts and fruits, but he is a type 1 diabetic so its good for him. The second thing I hate is all the sugar free crap, I don't think sugar substitutes are healthy, but maybe its my paleo side showing. My experience with Paleo tells me that Keto is probably sustainable as long as you pay attention to the macros as well. I have made two attempts at Paleo, my first failed and I fell of the wagon. This time I track my macros with MyFitnessPal and it is almost too easy to stay on the "diet". I do 60% fat, 30% protein, and 10% carbs. I think this is the key and makes sure I don't get cravings, no cheat days and I don't crave anything this time around. Not all nutrients are the same, the body has to work harder to get nutrients from fat and protein and as a bonus a little fat makes you feel full fast. Next time you're starving, try eating a spoon of peanut butter and the hunger will disappear. In fact I have to work to make sure I eat enough calories, usually feeling full at just 1200 calories a day rather than getting the 2000+ that I need. So I am winning the calories out vs. calories in, but the type of calorie makes it possible by removing any craving to snack or eat more. Lost 40 pounds in about 10 weeks and have been maintaining since. Have 40 pounds more to lose, but I got the real flu for two weeks and have stopped exercising. No weight gain though My cholesterol is extremely low, but doctor says I should start taking fish oil to boost the good levels. I don't shy away from steak, but eat a lot of chicken, seafood, and pork. No grain based products or milk and very limited hard cheese. Not big on cooking with oils with almost all of my meat being fire cooked and only spices not marinades or sauces. My wife bought me some ice cream, I used to eat a quart every two weeks and craved it and that craving no long exist and the carton remains unopen. I wish I could convince more people to go this route, but usually they stop listening when I tell them they need to eat more fat.

I call what I do Paleo, but true Paleo followers (not sure who gets to determine what true Paleo is) will call what I say blasphemy. First rule I have is bacon should not be Paleo, too much bad crap used to make bacon and Paleo is supposed to be natural foods. A little cheese is okay, most Paleo doctrine preaches no dairy. I have no argument against this and you can get calcium from other sources that don't contain lactose (sugar), but hard cheese contains very little lactose to the extent that those intolerant to lactose can usually eat a slice of hard cheese, which is the most I eat a day. Potatoes; seriously not sure who made to call that these are Paleo, I avoid them mostly due to the carbs but not all together. Everything else is veggies, meat, nuts, and fruit in order of how much I eat of each. No corn, like someone else said it is a grain not a veggie.

Also, I drink a gallon of water a day just to ensure no kidney stones and to keep flow high enough to avoid gall stones.

 

[deonb]

I think he means the butter melted in the coffee.

Yip. Bulletproof Coffee. I have it every morning.

2 cups of Americano, Tablespoon of butter, tablespoon of coconut oil, little bit of vanilla and erythritol. Blend in a blender.

It actually tastes like a Latte - there is very little "butter" taste to it.

 

[Sac Arrow]

By the way, people that are concerned with clogged arteries, tropical oils are deadly. Palm oil is the worst. They cause your body to manufacture the bad type of cholesterol, the stuff that lines your arteries.

 

[nauga]

It actually tastes like a Latte

You say that like it's a good thing.

Like I said, most of it is in response to how radical many vegans are.

If vegans jumped off a building would you do it too? If we asked nicely?

Nauga,
and the food-fad gadget

 

[DaleB]

Yuck! If someone made me eat a spoonful of butter I wouldn't want to eat for long time either.

And that, my friend, was EXACTLY my response when my son told me about “bulletproof coffee”. Ewwwwwww. Actually, a little butter doesn’t hurt the coffee as long as it’s stirred well. I normally drink my coffee the same way I like my women... hot, dark and bitter. But, I won’t turn down a fresh cup of espresso with a little heavy cream, or a little heavy cream and a dab of butter. I draw the line at spooning in coconut oil and dumping it in a blender. No thanks.

By the way, people that are concerned with clogged arteries, tropical oils are deadly. Palm oil is the worst. They cause your body to manufacture the bad type of cholesterol, the stuff that lines your arteries.

Ha! I had this conversation with my cardiologist. Told him from what I’d read, half the people think coconut oil is the salvation of the world; the other half think it comes directly from the bowels of Beelzebub himself and will kill anyone who looks directly at it. Asked him which was closer to the truth. He said he didn’t know; he’d seen the same reports.

We’re using it sparingly. More avocado oil these days.

 

[jaymark6655]

I would love to see a study that looks at grains or veggies and if there any connection to cholesterol. Maybe a high cholesterol diet without one of those two would result in less buildup similar to how carnivores do not normally develop arterial plaque. Some dogs do, but I wonder if it is because most of their food now contains cornmeal.

 

[topgun260]

If they aren't eating veggies it's not Keto. Which just reinforces that most people have just renamed Atkins "Keto" without actually learning what it is. Keto is not Atkins. I can't say it enough.

I don't disagree. My point is that there are tons of people out there who claim or think that they are on a Keto diet who are not.

 

[Velocity173]

I don't disagree. My point is that there are tons of people out there who claim or think that they are on a Keto diet who are not.

Or they go off the diet and gain more weight back than before. Seen several coworkers go that route.

I’m on “24 hour carbs” and it works wonders. It’s a diet plan with no meat and nothing but carbs and water...or alcohol.

 

[mryan75]

I don't disagree. My point is that there are tons of people out there who claim or think that they are on a Keto diet who are not.

I agree 10,000%.

 

[bflynn]

So let me throw this out because I have heard it multiple times here - the Atkins diet is NOT low carb/high protein. What you are thinking of is the first two weeks of the Atkins diet, then it moderates. But even then, Atkins is not a low fat diet and there are multiple quotes from Dr Atkins himself that prove that. He even goes so far as to say that if you try to do Atkins low fat, you are going to fail. Fat is critical to a ketogenic diet and Atkins is all about uncontrolled levels of fat in the diet because it is needed to fuel the internal processes that make you lose weight. To try to distinguish it as “high protein” is inaccurate and might be the reason some have failed at it.

Both diets work the same way - by not eating carbs, you place your body into “winter starvation mode”, aka ketosis and weight loss is phenomenal. From there, the Atkins plan slowly ramps the carbs back up to find the stable point where you no longer lose weight, then drops it down a little in order to lose the weight. That level is different for each person and each activity level. On at your goal weight, you eat in that range and periodically adjust it if your weight creeps up more than 5 lbs.

If you tried Atkins and think it’s all about induction, then you have completely missed the point. Atkins induction is a Keto diet, but Atkins doesn’t stay there. So the diets aren’t the same, but not for the reasons people are giving.

Let me repeat - Atkins is not low fat. It is not high protein. The approved foods list is virtually identical.

https://www.atkins.com/how-it-works/library/articles/why-not-low-fat-atkins

 

[BrianNC]

So let me throw this out because I have heard it multiple times here - the Atkins diet is NOT low carb/high protein. What you are thinking of is the first two weeks of the Atkins diet, then it moderates. But even then, Atkins is not a low fat diet and there are multiple quotes from Dr Atkins himself that prove that. He even goes so far as to say that if you try to do Atkins low fat, you are going to fail. Fat is critical to a ketogenic diet and Atkins is all about uncontrolled levels of fat in the diet because it is needed to fuel the internal processes that make you lose weight. To try to distinguish it as “high protein” is inaccurate and might be the reason some have failed at it.

Both diets work the same way - by not eating carbs, you place your body into “winter starvation mode”, aka ketosis and weight loss is phenomenal. From there, the Atkins plan slowly ramps the carbs back up to find the stable point where you no longer lose weight, then drops it down a little in order to lose the weight. That level is different for each person and each activity level. On at your goal weight, you eat in that range and periodically adjust it if your weight creeps up more than 5 lbs.

If you tried Atkins and think it’s all about induction, then you have completely missed the point. Atkins induction is a Keto diet, but Atkins doesn’t stay there. So the diets aren’t the same, but not for the reasons people are giving.

Let me repeat - Atkins is not low fat. It is not high protein. The approved foods list is virtually identical.

https://www.atkins.com/how-it-works/library/articles/why-not-low-fat-atkins

Exactly. The strict induction phase of Atkins was to insure that a person gets into ketosis. Then after 2 weeks you gradually add 'good' vegetables back in until you get to the point where you just stay in ketosis (taken by using Ketostix). Atkins as you said is not a low fat diet. How can a diet be low fat when you're eating mostly meat, eggs, cheese, bacon, etc?

The only thing I 'object' to is your phrase 'winter starvation mode'. I understand exactly what you mean by it, but I just don't like to use the word 'starvation' because you aren't starving yourself, and that word can scare people off. But I get what you mean.

One other thing, somebody said earlier that if you don't eat vegetables it's not keto. Not true. Any diet that gets you into ketosis (not to be confused with ketoacidosis which is what diabetics get into) is a keto diet. Carnivore is a keto diet. It gets you into ketosis. All carnivore is keto, but not all keto is carnivore.

 

[bflynn]

I should take the word starvation out....

 

[mryan75]

So let me throw this out because I have heard it multiple times here - the Atkins diet is NOT low carb/high protein. What you are thinking of is the first two weeks of the Atkins diet, then it moderates. But even then, Atkins is not a low fat diet and there are multiple quotes from Dr Atkins himself that prove that. He even goes so far as to say that if you try to do Atkins low fat, you are going to fail. Fat is critical to a ketogenic diet and Atkins is all about uncontrolled levels of fat in the diet because it is needed to fuel the internal processes that make you lose weight. To try to distinguish it as “high protein” is inaccurate and might be the reason some have failed at it.

Both diets work the same way - by not eating carbs, you place your body into “winter starvation mode”, aka ketosis and weight loss is phenomenal. From there, the Atkins plan slowly ramps the carbs back up to find the stable point where you no longer lose weight, then drops it down a little in order to lose the weight. That level is different for each person and each activity level. On at your goal weight, you eat in that range and periodically adjust it if your weight creeps up more than 5 lbs.

If you tried Atkins and think it’s all about induction, then you have completely missed the point. Atkins induction is a Keto diet, but Atkins doesn’t stay there. So the diets aren’t the same, but not for the reasons people are giving.

Let me repeat - Atkins is not low fat. It is not high protein. The approved foods list is virtually identical.

https://www.atkins.com/how-it-works/library/articles/why-not-low-fat-atkins

Atkins is high protein, low carb. It's a brainless diet, requires absolutely no thought. Tarzan eat protein. Protein good.

Keto is high fat, and it's all about the kinds of fats. It is about high-quality fats to feed your brain.

 

[bflynn]

Atkins is high protein, low carb.

This statement is not true. Please provide a link. Quote from Dr Atkins? Something that proves its high protein?

I’ve read Dr Atkins’ book. I am quite sure he said that fat is absolutely essential and that it should even be the main source of calories. He quotes studies if the Inuit, who eat about 80% fat and how they have nearly zero heart disease. His message was not to be afraid of fat.

 

[BrianNC]

This statement is not true. Please provide a link. Quote from Dr Atkins? Something that proves its high protein?

I’ve read Dr Atkins’ book. I am quite sure he said that fat is absolutely essential and that it should even be the main source of calories. He quotes studies if the Inuit, who eat about 80% fat and how they have nearly zero heart disease. His message was not to be afraid of fat.

You are correct. But I think a more accurate way of putting it is that Atkins is higher protein by percentage, but not in actual grams. With Atkins, the protein in grams is what you get. With keto, you purposely add fat in order hit that more or less ration of 75% fat, 20% protein, 5% carbs. So keto is higher fat by percentage, but Atkins is higher protein by percentage, but not actual grams.

So when they say Atkins is high protein, that's really what they're saying but maybe not realizing in what way they mean that.

 

[mryan75]

This statement is not true. Please provide a link. Quote from Dr Atkins? Something that proves its high protein?

I’ve read Dr Atkins’ book. I am quite sure he said that fat is absolutely essential and that it should even be the main source of calories. He quotes studies if the Inuit, who eat about 80% fat and how they have nearly zero heart disease. His message was not to be afraid of fat.

I've read the book, too. It is 100% accurate. And I'm beyond the age of needing to pointlessly argue on the internet.

 

[mryan75]

You are correct. But I think a more accurate way of putting it is that Atkins is higher protein by percentage, but not in actual grams. With Atkins, the protein in grams is what you get. With keto, you purposely add fat in order hit that more or less ration of 75% fat, 20% protein, 5% carbs. So keto is higher fat by percentage, but Atkins is higher protein by percentage, but not actual grams.

So when they say Atkins is high protein, that's really what they're saying but maybe not realizing in what way they mean that.

He's wrong. The standard American diet calls for 56 grams of protein per day for the average male. The Atkins diet calls for 36 grams of protein per meal. That is double what the standard diet calls for.

6 ounces of uncoooked protein = 6 grams of protein per ounce = 36 ounces of protein per meal

https://www.atkins.com/how-it-works/library/articles/what-you-need-to-know-about-protein

Atkins is a high protein, low carb diet. Period.

 

[BrianNC]

He's wrong. The standard American diet calls for 56 grams of protein per day for the average male. The Atkins diet calls for 36 grams of protein per meal. That is double what the standard diet calls for.

6 ounces of uncoooked protein = 6 grams of protein per ounce = 36 ounces of protein per meal

https://www.atkins.com/how-it-works/library/articles/what-you-need-to-know-about-protein

Atkins is a high protein, low carb diet. Period.

Yes, by percentage as compared to keto and in comparison to what you posted as the recommended for a male which is pretty low. Heck, I normally get 56 grams in a one meal. But not in actual grams as compared to keto. On keto you're not eating any less protein than Atkins, you're just adding more fat when brings down the percentage of protein.

But you're comparing it to the recommended daily, where I'm comparing to keto. Keto and Atkins is basically the same protein by grams, but you add more fat to keto.

 

[mryan75]

Yes, by percentage as compared to keto and in comparison to what you posted as the recommended for a male which is pretty low. Heck, I normally get 56 grams in a one meal. But not in actual grams as compared to keto. On keto you're not eating any less protein than Atkins, you're just adding more fat when brings down the percentage of protein.

But you're comparing it to the recommended daily, where I'm comparing to keto. Keto and Atkins is basically the same protein by grams, but you add more fat to keto.

Also not true. Keto is a moderate protein diet. It calls for about 70% of the protein that Atkins does. Atkins is about eating protein, period. Doesn't matter what kind, high fat, low fat, just eat protein and don't eat carbs. It's simple that way. Keto is about fat, not protein, and it is not "low carb". At least, not in the sense that Atkins is, where low carb is the only point. Keto is 100% about the kind of fat you are eating. It's not even about weight loss. Keto is about feeding your brain the fat it needs, to prevent dimentia, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and other brain diseases. Atkins and Keto have completely different points. That's what people don't understand.

Not going to argue anymore. Most people think Atkins and Keto are the same thing. 99% of people who think they are on a Keto diet are not. Believe what you want.

 

[weilke]

Ooh, a diet guru slugfest.

 

[mryan75]

Ooh, a diet guru slugfest.

Hardly. This is very basic.

 

[172andyou]

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/should-you-try-the-keto-diet

 

[mryan75]

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/should-you-try-the-keto-diet

Line 1, fail: "It's advertised as a weight-loss wonder"

It is about brain health. Weight loss is secondary. Frankly, the rest of it is a fail, too.

"While it also has been tried for weight loss, only short-term results have been studied, and the results have been mixed. We don't know if it works in the long term, nor whether it's safe," warns registered dietitian Kathy McManus, director of the Department of Nutrition at Harvard-affiliated Brigham and Women's Hospital.

Fail:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945587/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK138038/

"The brain needs sugar from healthy carbohydrates to function. Low-carb diets may cause confusion and irritability," McManus says.

Fail.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/new...lucose-levels-may-mean-more-severe-alzheimers

I think Ms. McManus is confused, and possibly irritable. There is plenty of scientific data available regarding the ketogenic diet.

 

[DaleB]

I have yet to see a diet that doesn't have supposedly credible (or at least well credentialed) people saying it's great, and others saying it's horrible. I think there's a good reason for that... despite the strong inclination to find a single unified recommendation for everyone, I don't think one diet is universally good for everyone.

 

[172andyou]

I have yet to see a diet that doesn't have supposedly credible (or at least well credentialed) people saying it's great, and others saying it's horrible.

Yup. And random people on the internet acting like they understand the issue in great detail and can authoritatively determine which of the groups of experts is right.

 

[172andyou]

Line 1, fail: "It's advertised as a weight-loss wonder"

It is about brain health. Weight loss is secondary.

Then it's a mystery as to why, in 116 messages on this thread, you are the only one talking about brain health. Everyone else is advertising it as a weight-loss wonder.

 

[dtuuri]

Line 1, fail: "It's advertised as a weight-loss wonder"

It is about brain health. Weight loss is secondary. Frankly, the rest of it is a fail, too.

"While it also has been tried for weight loss, only short-term results have been studied, and the results have been mixed. We don't know if it works in the long term, nor whether it's safe," warns registered dietitian Kathy McManus, director of the Department of Nutrition at Harvard-affiliated Brigham and Women's Hospital.

Fail:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945587/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK138038/

"The brain needs sugar from healthy carbohydrates to function. Low-carb diets may cause confusion and irritability," McManus says.

Fail.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/new...lucose-levels-may-mean-more-severe-alzheimers

I think Ms. McManus is confused, and possibly irritable. There is plenty of scientific data available regarding the ketogenic diet.

Hoo-boy. I started looking at the links. The first one is all theory and opinion, no actual study with documented results. The second starts off with this, "The conclusions of this well-conducted systematic review are likely to be reliable but the magnitude of the results were of little clinical significance." Then it states, "A low fat diet was defined as a restricted-energy diet with less than 30% of energy from fat." Well, that's not "low fat". Ten percent is low fat, not thirty. Thirty isn't even trying. I'm all for learning more about proper nutrition to stave off disease, but really...

 

[weilke]

Line 1, fail: "It's advertised as a weight-loss wonder"

It is about brain health. Weight loss is secondary. Frankly, the rest of it is a fail, too.

"While it also has been tried for weight loss, only short-term results have been studied, and the results have been mixed. We don't know if it works in the long term, nor whether it's safe," warns registered dietitian Kathy McManus, director of the Department of Nutrition at Harvard-affiliated Brigham and Women's Hospital.

Fail:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945587/

You are funny. You dismiss the health letter based on the first sentence yet you quote Paolis article which deals with how to safely use it for weight loss and makes no claims about 'brain health'.

For those who want to do this, they should really read Paolis review to the end:


8. Conclusions
A period of low carbohydrate ketogenic diet may help to control hunger and may improve fat oxidative metabolism and therefore reduce body weight. Furthermore new kinds of ketogenic diets using meals that mimic carbohydrate rich foods could improve the compliance to the diet [78]. Attention should be paid to patient’s renal function and to the transition phase from ketogenic diet to a normal diet that should be gradual and well controlled [69]. The duration of ketogenic diet may range from a minimum (to induce the physiological ketosis) of 2–3 weeks to a maximum (following a general precautionary principle) of many months (6–12 months). Correctly understood the ketogenic diet can be a useful tool to treat obesity in the hands of the physician.

That's not what I see happening. All I see are 'roll your own' approaches based on patients own reading on the internet.

 

[jaymark6655]

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/should-you-try-the-keto-diet

An article with no listed author or citations, I think they are leaning a little heavy on the Harvard name to appear credible. I also love how they lump Paleo in with keto like diets, there is nothing really similar or keto like about it except the avoidance of grains. Fruit, nuts, berries are so high in carbs that followers of a true keto diet cannot eat them, yet they are fine on Paleo. While true Paleo can seem to focus on protein, most reading I have done on it places a very heavy focus on fat and cooking with a lot of it. Which makes me think the author wrote this using general public opinions to form his statements. Don't know enough about South Beach or Atkin's to provide any insight from that angle.

Nutrient Deficiency - People should be eating a wide variety of veggies, but saying you can't be healthy without fruits and nuts is false and I can't think of a single thing that grains would give me that I need to be healthy that can't come from another source unless you buy into humans needing has much carbs as a professional/Olympic athlete.

Liver Problems/Kidney Problems - It can, but seems to be limited to specifically red meat (pork and steak). I think the salt people put on these is likely a bigger influence in causing problems, but whatever. I also feel most protein should be fowl or fish. The amount of water intake has a larger impact that a keto diet. Most people don't drink enough, so adding extra protein would just amplify an already existing problem. Have also been told by a vegan that keto causes gallstones because of increased bile production. Reducing protein intake actually makes gallstone formation more likely due to the gallbladder flushing out less so the bile sits there longer, which is perfect conditions for stone formation.

Constipation - Veggies have almost the same amount of fiber per serving as grains. If you aren't keto then most fruits and berries have more fiber per serving than grains. Paleo doesn't allow legumes, which is a drawback since they have the highest fiber content.

Funny thing is I was part of a professional study that involved doctors, nutritionist, personal trainers, and phycologist with the focus being healthy, being a healthy weight, and maintaining it long term. The diet was natural food, based mostly on meat and fat with grains slowly reintroduced near the end, if the weight loss stopped or reverse then grains become an off-limit food. Same thing with alcohol. They only allowed 0.5 to 1 serving of grain a day, same with milk. Legumes were allowed, but mostly other than meat participants were eating veggies and nuts. Blood test and stress test were done throughout the entire weight loss portion. My cholesterol was so low, I had to take 6 fish oil pills twice a day to try and raise it to a healthy level. I thought is would be sky high since I was eating 2 steaks a day before I joined.