Continuing flight after disapproval?

dustyblue

Filing Flight Plan
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DustyBlue
I know if you get a disapproval during the airwork it is at the examinee’s choice whether to continue but what about the oral?

If you get a disapproval during the oral portion of a checkride, can you choose to continue with the flight?



Tl;dr - Backstory

One of my friends just got a disapproval. He and I spent a lot of time reviewing material (good practice for my CFI checkride next week) and I really thought he was going to knock it out of the park.

I dont know what happened but from the sounds of things the DPE was the epitome of unprofessional. He was late, did not have space arranged to conduct the oral in (which he said he’d arrange) delaying the start further and ultimately issued a disapproval on what to me seems questionable before pocketing the fee and rushing off to the next checkride.

I advised my friend to report it to the FSDO and he’s looking into it but as I get ready for my own ride next week, one particularly notorious for its length and a high fail rate during the oral often due to arbitrary and subjective “issues,” it got me thinking what recourse you might have in the moment to prevent the DPE from thinking he can end the ride and “go home” early.

Can I demand we continue the ride? I am after all paying over $1000 for the ride, 90+% of it directly to the DPE. Why shouldnt I be allowed to continue if I want?
 
$1000 for the checkride???? what the heck are you training in? I'm a Sport Pilot and know the ride isn't quite the same as for the PPL but it was close (in 2013). the whole shebang...oral and ride, was $375.

my DPE did the oral first and explained that we would do the flight only if I passed the oral. he further explained that if I busted any of the requirements on the ride that the ride would continue to the end and I would only have to repeat the failed portion of the flight at another time. the oral took ~2-hrs and the ride another 90-minutes. I did everything well except the first attempt at a short field landing. but I aborted and went around and hit it perfectly on the second attempt. the DPE said nothing. we finished the ride and I was sure I failed but he passed me telling me that the decision to go around gave me more "points" than trying to force the landing.

good luck. you'll do fine.
 
I am after all paying over $1000 for the ride, 90+% of it directly to the DPE.
Where’s the other 10% going? Sounds like someone is totally milking you.
 
If you don’t pass the oral the examiner will stop the checkride. The examiner our field uses will continue the ride if it is something minor, like messing up a hold but will stop it if it is a major mistake or lots of mistakes. After the flight portion, he will let you go back up with an instructor and get the required training and then check you out that maneuver.

The instructors know this so they go with you to the checkride and charge 4 hours of their time. He is hard to schedule, so it kind of makes sense to pay the instructor in case you mess up something stupid.

The examiner charges $700, room rental is $50 (less if you can split it with other examinees), instructor is about $350, an hour of plane rental down and back, and 2 hours for the checkride adds up fast. So $1,000 isn’t out of line.
 
$1000?!?!?!?

Does the check ride at least come with some sort of lube?

Even out here in the sticks the initial CFI checkride is getting close to $1k. I believe all the DPEs in the area are charging $750 for it and the FSDO won’t do them.

The main reason for the high price around here is that you can only do one checkride a day if it is an initial CFI. Because of that the examiners basically double their usual price.
 
Where’s the other 10% going? Sounds like someone is totally milking you.

That's just an estimate. The DPE doesn't like to travel. If you are lucky enough to get him to travel, he charges a fee, which to my airport is $140. So in that case it's $1040, paid entirely to the DPE.

In most cases examinee's come to him, which is the situation I am in. He's a 145NM round trip from me which I'm estimating will be about 1.7 on the hobbs including taxi, run-up, etc. That's going to be $200 paid to my flight school for the plane rental. Plus there's a ramp fee at the other end of the trip which will be $25. So in this case I'm looking at $1125, 80% to the DPE, 18% to the flight school and 2% to the FBO.

That's just to get to the checkride though... I am factoring in another $260 for another 2.3 hours on the Hobbs for the flight portion of the checkride. That's probably a little excessive as I flew all of the maneuvers for PPL and CPL, multiple times for some of them, in about 2.8 hours. I'm hoping it'll actually be closer to 1.8 on the hobbs which will be $210 making for a $1335 day.

So yeah on a GOOD day in which I get a temporary certificate issued, I'm looking at roughly $1300-1400. 65-70% of which goes to the DPE, 29-32% to the flight school and 1.5-2% to the remote FBO.

Its probably one of the few times that I will consider a GOOD day to be a day in which I am spending MORE money since a bad day would end in a disapproval at $1125.

Though of course a disapproval just means I get to do it all again another day so overall a disapproval will be considerably more costly, which even after considering his reduced fee for a retest, will probably come in around $600 more than my GOOD day estimate, not including remedial flight/ground with my instructor back home.
 
So... All these comments about the cost but nobody has answered my original question...

Can I require the DPE to continue the checkride even if he wants to fail me on the oral?

I'm reading 8710.3E CHG 1 and in section 11(b)3, they layout an example failure in the oral in which the student pilot states you dont need clearance into a Bravo. The section says at this point the examination is terminated and a notice of disapproval issued.

That to me though is an issue of failed aeronautical knowledge and inability to safely conduct the flight. Whereas the CFI checkride is more about your ability to teach... In that regard a lack of ability to teach a subject doesn't necessarily equate to a lack of knowledge on the subject which puts this ride in more of a "weird" place.

It sounds as though you cannot ask to continue the checkride if a disapproval is to be issued during the oral so I guess I'll just have to hope for the best and that I survive the oral and can do the flight portion, I have someone to prove wrong and a CFI to vindicate.
 
Have you read your ACS/PTS? As a CFI applicant that would probably be a good idea.
however, the ground portion of the practical test must be completed prior to the flight portion.
 
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And people wonder why I am not actively pursuing my CFI Airplane as I approach retirement.

Sure it would be good to teach part time in retirement, keep flying.
I’ll keep my CFI Glider current and be available as safety pilot for anyone wanting to share instrument currency flights. Maybe I’ll set up an aircraft ferry service.
 
It seems as if the PTS/ACS combined with the actual DPE requirements + Demand escapes some people.
 
My DPE layed the ground rules in the first few minutes..
If I were to fail the oral it would be 1/2 the cost and it would be over, if I passed the oral but failed the flight portion it was the other 1/2. Retakes on the flight portion were only 1/2 total cost.
Thankfully I passed both the first time.
 
I know if you get a disapproval during the airwork it is at the examinee’s choice whether to continue but what about the oral?

If you get a disapproval during the oral portion of a checkride, can you choose to continue with the flight?



Tl;dr - Backstory

One of my friends just got a disapproval. He and I spent a lot of time reviewing material (good practice for my CFI checkride next week) and I really thought he was going to knock it out of the park.

I dont know what happened but from the sounds of things the DPE was the epitome of unprofessional. He was late, did not have space arranged to conduct the oral in (which he said he’d arrange) delaying the start further and ultimately issued a disapproval on what to me seems questionable before pocketing the fee and rushing off to the next checkride.

I advised my friend to report it to the FSDO and he’s looking into it but as I get ready for my own ride next week, one particularly notorious for its length and a high fail rate during the oral often due to arbitrary and subjective “issues,” it got me thinking what recourse you might have in the moment to prevent the DPE from thinking he can end the ride and “go home” early.

Can I demand we continue the ride? I am after all paying over $1000 for the ride, 90+% of it directly to the DPE. Why shouldnt I be allowed to continue if I want?

Since you don’t know the answer to your question and have not researched the answer on your own, this is a clue you are not ready for the CFI ride.

The examiner does not expect you to be a walking database spitting out answers. But you do need to know where to find the answer to any question in FAA source material.

You may also be challenged to defend a correct answer.
 
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