ADS-B decision

I believe the OP is looking for a 1090 out as he has some international flying plans. The Skybeacon is 978.
 
The Stratus ESG is $3,000 installed in my shop right now. The ES is $2,800 installed.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Caribbean, and probably Canada, will need 1090, not just 978.
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Got a link? Btw Define the "caribbean". It's hardly a monolith. Genuinely curious though, as I'm interested in hopping back and forth one of these days hopefully before I hit social security age..... :D
 
If you meant Jesse, I’m in north FL at X35.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Got a link? Btw Define the "caribbean". It's hardly a monolith. Genuinely curious though, as I'm interested in hopping back and forth one of these days hopefully before I hit social security age..... :D
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Meh... I don't know that any of them are solidly 1090 only, because I don't think the rules are 100% final yet. The Bahamas, in particular, seems to keep changing their mind on what will be required, if anything, and when. I hadn't heard about Canada's potential "diversity" requirement until this week, here on PoA, so I might need to go back for another antenna off the 345 myself! :(

But, we went dual band specifically to make sure that we can go where we want regardless of how the chips fall, as the tentative plans I've heard for several other countries in North America have been 1090-only. If you don't mind installing a Skybeacon and then pulling it off to install something else later, not as big a deal.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Well for me it was $1800 installed. I find it to be a great solution for UAT ADSB out domestically.
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$1995 for GDL82, $144 for shop supplies (???), and 16 hours of labor ($1656) = $3800. Oh, it says we must have GDL69 (which we don't). With it, it's $4220 plus 16 hours of labor.
 
MountainDude said:
$1995 for GDL82, $144 for shop supplies (???), and 16 hours of labor ($1656) = $3800. Oh, it says we must have GDL69 (which we don't). With it, it's $4220 plus 16 hours of labor.
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The GDL69 is XM weather, what in the world does that have to do with a GDL82 install?
 
NordicDave said:
BTW, skyBeacon only outputs less than 22 watts well under the Canadian 125 watt requirement.
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The wattage output required in the US is 250, which only applies to the transponder, not to the ADS-B transmission.
 
Raymo said:
The wattage output required in the US is 250, which only applies to the transponder, not to the ADS-B transmission.
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Totally agree. Many are not aware that most of the ADS-B options that attach to an existing transponder are much lower power output than the transponder. This was one of the reasons I went with the GTX-345 to get a full 240 watts for ADS-B output. I frequently fly in airspace with small and large jets. The extra signal reach was an important safety concern for me to be seen at a longer distance for other faster aircraft.

-David
 
I have made my decision.

I will not fly in airspace requiring ADS-B out.

My airplane doesn't even have a NAV receiver...
 
NordicDave said:
This was one of the reasons I went with the GTX-345 to get a full 240 watts for ADS-B output.
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I'll have to look into this assumption. The transponder is on a different frequency than ADS-B so I'm not sure they both transmit at the same wattage. It makes sense that the extended squitter data, which carries the ADS-B information would be carried along with the transponder information. Hmmm...
 
GRG55 said:
None of us need worry about ADS-B Out in Canada for quite awhile. NavCanada (the organization that runs the ATC system) is pushing it. Transport Canada (the Federal regulator) is lukewarm, at best. Two years ago Transport said it would be "at least ten years". The big push in Canada is going to be for flight safety and SAR in remote regions. That's why the top mount antenna...Transport wants satellite, not ground station as the FAA went.
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Thanks for posting this. I was afraid of UAT solely because of fear that it wouldn't be allowed in Canada, which is really the only international country I'd be going in my plane. This significantly alleviates that concern.
 
Flying without even having OUT is akin to driving around at night without so much as your parking lights on. If you have OUT you at least have your park lights on so others can see you. If you add IN then you also have your headlights on and you can see others.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Flying without even having OUT is akin to driving around at night without so much as your parking lights on. If you have OUT you at least have your park lights on so others can see you. If you add IN then you also have your headlights on and you can see others.
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So you want to retrofit all the aircraft without electrical systems. You offering to pay for it?

None of this ADS-B stuff is about safety, or finding other planes. That's not what the S stands for in ADS-B.

You think the feds give a crap about whether a bunch of piston 91 guys smash into each other? No, it's so they can watch us.
 
Hmmm..... where did I say anything like that? I simply made an analogy about how ADS-B works. Would you like to punch the other cheek? I’m doing my best to understand how having knowledge, even partial knowledge about the traffic in your area as well as onboard weather is such a bad thing. Are they out to get you? What are you doing that you you feel you must hide?
 
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It's no one's business where I am or am not going, and with ADS-B the whole world knows when I'm not home.
 
Punkinhead said:
Mine was $1850 installed because I did it myself, as can anyone who can use a screwdriver and has 10 minutes available. It'll go down by $500 once my FAA rebate check arrives. I suppose it'll cost me another $3 as payment for filing the STC next time I see my IA at the local restaurant and buy him a beer. So, all in, $1353.
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Don't you then have to have a transponder check completed by an avionics shop?
 
EdFred said:
It's no one's business where I am or am not going, and with ADS-B the whole world knows when I'm not home.
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In some ways, I'm regretting not leaving our existing transponder in place and adding a GDL 88 to it with anonymous mode enabled (so I could still get traffic and weather) as well as putting in the GTX 345, so I'd have the ability to squawk 1200 and fly around without big brother in the right seat.

Of course, for me, it's mainly so that my mom doesn't text me every time the plane goes up asking where I'm flying. :rofl:
 
EdFred said:
It's no one's business where I am or am not going, and with ADS-B the whole world knows when I'm not home.
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If you’re wanting stealthy movement, I think it would be better to drive. Kind of hard to hide where you’re going when you fly. I don’t cheat on my wife or engage in illegal activity of any kind so flying works well for me.
 
MBDiagMan said:
If you’re wanting stealthy movement, I think it would be better to drive. Kind of hard to hide where you’re going when you fly. I don’t cheat on my wife or engage in illegal activity of any kind so flying works well for me.
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I took Ed's implication to mean that if someone were to want to engage in illegal activity at his house, they no longer need to stake it out to tell that he's not home - They can sign up for an alert from FlightAware (like my mom did with my plane!) and definitively know that he's not home, and how far from home he is!

There are some groups working on the privacy issues with ADS-B at least:
http://interactive.aviationtoday.com/what-is-the-answer-to-business-aviations-ads-b-privacy-concern/
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2018/december/13/aopa-pushing-ads-b-privacy-forward
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I took Ed's implication to mean that if someone were to want to engage in illegal activity at his house, they no longer need to stake it out to tell that he's not home - They can sign up for an alert from FlightAware (like my mom did with my plane!) and definitively know that he's not home, and how far from home he is!

There are some groups working on the privacy issues with ADS-B at least:
http://interactive.aviationtoday.com/what-is-the-answer-to-business-aviations-ads-b-privacy-concern/
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2018/december/13/aopa-pushing-ads-b-privacy-forward
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Winner Winner tastes like chicken dinner. I'm going to have issues with my transponder breaker routinely.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
I took Ed's implication to mean that if someone were to want to engage in illegal activity at his house, they no longer need to stake it out to tell that he's not home - They can sign up for an alert from FlightAware (like my mom did with my plane!) and definitively know that he's not home, and how far from home he is!

There are some groups working on the privacy issues with ADS-B at least:
http://interactive.aviationtoday.com/what-is-the-answer-to-business-aviations-ads-b-privacy-concern/
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2018/december/13/aopa-pushing-ads-b-privacy-forward
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In that case, time for some High Voltage warning signs and befriend an armed neighbor. My Son in law is right across the creek. There is a sign in his reloading room that reads “ Warning! Due to the rising cost of ammunition, don’t expect a warning shot!”
 
MBDiagMan said:
Flying without even having OUT is akin to driving around at night without so much as your parking lights on. If you have OUT you at least have your park lights on so others can see you. If you add IN then you also have your headlights on and you can see others.
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How many midairs were there last year? OK, how about the year before?

The reality is ADS-B out (which is the mandated portion) doesn't offer much to the GA flyer.
 
And you’re telling me this because?

ADS-B out allows you to be seen by those who choose to monitor ADS-B. Of course it makes it easier for those black helicopters to see you too.

I prefer to have all the help I can get including traffic and maybe more importantly, in flight weather. For those who don’t want it, GREAT! It’s a free country. Install it or not.

If you don’t like my analogy that is my effort to explain out and in, fine. I wasn’t trying to sell it to anyone, I was merely trying to make an analogy. Read it or not. Agree with it or not.

For some of you it sounds as if you think they’re out to get you. Do you see black helicopters hovering outside your hangar?
 
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MBDiagMan said:
And you’re telling me this because?

I prefer to have all the help I can get including traffic and maybe more importantly, in flight weather. For those who don’t want it, GREAT! It’s a free country. Install it or not.
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In flight weather isn't part of the mandate and can be had for the cost of a $150 Stratux. You aren't getting much value for the other $1500-$5k. You'd be safer spending those bucks on recurrent training...
 
I get plenty of training.

It really confuses me to see people imply that ADS-B makes us less safe. Please explain how that can be. I am not telling you how to spend your money. Why are you so insistent on telling me how I should spend mine?

I have had a Stratux for a couple of years. It doesn’t broadcast my position to others and only puts traffic and weather on my iPad. It’s not installed permanently in and powered by my panel. It’s a cheap, flimsy piece of gear at best with loose wires to deal with. When I am flying on instruments I don’t see my iPad. I do see my 430 though and have seen traffic that was pretty close and only a few hundred feet below me.

Are those black helicopters still hovering?
 
EdFred said:
So you want to retrofit all the aircraft without electrical systems. You offering to pay for it?

None of this ADS-B stuff is about safety, or finding other planes. That's not what the S stands for in ADS-B.

You think the feds give a crap about whether a bunch of piston 91 guys smash into each other? No, it's so they can watch us.
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What is your hat size? I have a nice tin foil derby to send you.
 
MBDiagMan said:
It really confuses me to see people imply that ADS-B makes us less safe. Please explain how that can be.

<snip>

Are those black helicopters still hovering?
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I don't think anyone has argued that it reduces safety. I'm of the opinion that the added safety from ADS-B out is so small, there are better places to spend your money if safety is your concern.

I have no idea where the black helicopter comment comes from. Is it that hard to disagree politely?
 
kyleb said:
I don't think anyone has argued that it reduces safety. I'm of the opinion that the added safety from ADS-B out is so small, there are better places to spend your money if safety is your concern.

I have no idea where the black helicopter comment comes from. Is it that hard to disagree politely?
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If it doesn’t REDUCE safety, then why is anyone opposed to others spending their own money? I promise that I won’t tell you or anyone else what to purchase with their own money.

I will apologize if anyone was offended by any of my comments, but the paranoia kind of sticks out like a sore thumb for at least one of the posters here.
 
There will always be a contingent of pilots that believe much like NORDO, having a radio and using it - even a handheld doesn't enhance safety. I don't agree, but I know there's nothing I can say to change their minds. ADS-B seems to me to be much the same argument. I happen to like seeing where other traffic is, but others prefer to rely on the see & avoid principle and big sky theory.

The only thing I worry about is, once a target has been identified, I have to fight to avoid becoming fixated on it. At those times I imagine myself staring at my iOS device while another non-ADSB target T-bones me...
 
Well I feel even better about equipping both planes with ADS-B OUT & IN.

I have flown the Mooney a good bit with a 345, connected to a 430W and bluetoothed to Foreflight. I flew the Cessna a little over 2 hours yesterday with the new Appareo ESG and Stratus 3i feeding Foreflight.

About a year ago I started reading about the fact that over time many new features would find their way into ADS-B, but never really expected that to happen. Well it definitely is happening. I found several new IN features in the selections in the MAPS portion of Foreflight including; cloud top levels, icing levels, ADS-B towers shown on charts and of course traffic. There are various settings that are appearing such as hiding distant traffic although I think that one has been there a long time. I read that many features and added functionality is on its way and I now believe it.

All of these features are part of ADS-B IN, without requiring OUT to take advantage of them, BUT, very importantly if you are not transmitting OUT, you are not triggering direct reports from traffic near you. You are relying only on the towers as I understand it. I could be wrong.

I am just now digging into all this and have the equipment to take advantage of it.

If you just putt-putt around near home in a J3 away from rule airspace, it is probably overkill, but for anyone doing cross country travel or go near rule air space, it is something you should look into equipping for and learning about IMHO.
 
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