kgruber
Final Approach
Just for instance,.................could someone log PIC time MES, if 50 years ago a an owner tossed you the keys to an Aztec Nomad seaplane for you to reposition solo...........even if you didn't have a MES rating?
Can one log PIC time......
- Thread starter kgruber
- Start date
Tarheelpilot
Final Approach
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2010
- Messages
- 7,393
- Location
- North Carolina once again.
- Display Name
Display name:
Tarheelpilot
No. It would be SIC.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Fifty years ago????? Absolutely, who the heck can challenge that??
catmandu
Pattern Altitude
As an airline headed renegade young Naval Aviator in my squadron said, back in the pre-digital age: "Fly what you can, log what you need."
kkoran
Pattern Altitude
How would logging SIC on a solo flight be more correct than logging PIC?
Tarheelpilot
Final Approach
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2010
- Messages
- 7,393
- Location
- North Carolina once again.
- Display Name
Display name:
Tarheelpilot
I believe he's still re-assembling his head from the previous explosion.
"God is my PIC?"
RussR
En-Route
I'm not sure what aspects of the question are important, and it's lacking some details, but here goes:
50 years ago? That was pre-1997 rewrite of Part 61. Unless the rules had changed again earlier than 1997 in this regard, at that time "solo" time (such as student solo) was NOT considered PIC time.
So, if you were signed off for solo in the Aztec Nomad seaplane, and flew it solo, you could not log it as PIC.
If you were NOT signed off for solo, for example you were an AMEL (no sea) plane pilot and the owner asked you to reposition the aircraft, then at least today you could not make that flight legally. If you did, then you wouldn't be able to log anything anyway.
If the airplane is amphibious, and you only land on land (not water), then you could legally do the flight with an AMEL certificate.
50 years ago? That was pre-1997 rewrite of Part 61. Unless the rules had changed again earlier than 1997 in this regard, at that time "solo" time (such as student solo) was NOT considered PIC time.
So, if you were signed off for solo in the Aztec Nomad seaplane, and flew it solo, you could not log it as PIC.
If you were NOT signed off for solo, for example you were an AMEL (no sea) plane pilot and the owner asked you to reposition the aircraft, then at least today you could not make that flight legally. If you did, then you wouldn't be able to log anything anyway.
If the airplane is amphibious, and you only land on land (not water), then you could legally do the flight with an AMEL certificate.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
As long as you left a blank line there in your logbook, it’s all cool.
I would not, however, suggest logging it immediately below your most recent flight...might raise some eyebrows at your interview for the regionals.
I would not, however, suggest logging it immediately below your most recent flight...might raise some eyebrows at your interview for the regionals.
dtuuri
Final Approach
Yep, as long as you aren't a student pilot. Just don't carry passengers unless you first make three takeoffs and landings to a full stop with a pilot who IS legal to carry passengers. Oh, and don't do it for hire. Them were the good ol' days. Did you do it?
Last edited:
Juliet Hotel
En-Route
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2018
- Messages
- 2,634
- Display Name
Display name:
Juliet Hotel
Trick question. The Aztec didn't need keys to get it going.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
The way the rules are written.
If we are looking at today's rules, not 50 years ago, a student pilot undergoing training and with the applicable endorsements may log PIC when solo. That's 61.51(e)(4).
OTOH, a private pilots may "log" PIC when "the sole occupant of the aircraft." 61.51(e)(1)(ii). So, yes, it would be loggable. But, (still using today's rules), a pilot who is not rated in category and class may not "serve as PIC" without a solo endorsement (61.31)(d). So, while it would be loggable, it's usually considered bad form to log a violation
.50 years ago? 61.31(d) as of November, 1973 was substantively the same. It may have been different before since that version also had a grandfather clause for for logging solo PIC time prior to that date. Don't know that part. 61.51 was similar in authorizing "sole occupant" logging of PIC time by a private pilot but, as already pointed out, student pilots logging PIC when solo did not come about until 1997.