ADS-B proving flight

Mark Mizrahi

Filing Flight Plan
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MarkMiz
Who recently flew a ADS-B performance flight? I am in NJ at KBLM. I need to fly the ADS-B performance flight. I filled out the paperwork installed a Stratus Appareo unit and need only now to fly. I am confused as to where to fly, how high, who to talk to in the air, etc. Can anyone help?
Mark Miz.
 
Who recently flew a ADS-B performance flight? I am in NJ at KBLM. I need to fly the ADS-B performance flight. I filled out the paperwork installed a Stratus Appareo unit and need only now to fly. I am confused as to where to fly, how high, who to talk to in the air, etc. Can anyone help?
Mark Miz.

Which transponder did you install?

Stratus ESG for me and I flew a racetrack 1000' above pattern altitude over class C airspace for 40 minutes. I had to be careful not to taxi too fast and come to a full stop afterwards so the transponder would auto-switch accordingly.
 
Who recently flew a ADS-B performance flight? I am in NJ at KBLM. I need to fly the ADS-B performance flight. I filled out the paperwork installed a Stratus Appareo unit and need only now to fly. I am confused as to where to fly, how high, who to talk to in the air, etc. Can anyone help?

Here's the quickie maneuver checklist I made for doing these flights that has worked swimmingly:

ADS-B test flight:
  • Take off
  • Climb: Vy, at least one minute
  • Climbing: 2 left and 2 right 360º turns at 3000-5000 feet AGL, Vy, 30 degrees bank
  • Cruise: 2 left and 2 right 360º turns at 7000-10,000 feet AGL, Va, 30 degrees bank
  • Fly north/south course that crosses defined waypoint followed by east/west course crossing same waypoint
  • Descent: Cruise config, Vne-10, at least a minute
  • Descent: 2 left and 2 right 360º turns at 7000-2000 feet AGL, 1.4x Vs, 30 degrees bank
  • Approach/Landing config: Vfe-10, at least a minute
This is based on section 4.3.2 of Advisory Circular AC 20-165B - Airworthiness Approval of Automatic Dependent Surveillance - Broadcast OUT Systems which is the definitive requirement from the FAA. Oddly enough, with all of the warnings that you must fly the flight in "rule airspace" (B, C, or above 10,000), this requirement specifically states that you just need to be within the coverage of the FAA's ground network, and I have flown my flights outside rule airspace. I've seen some other references that they want to verify it using radar, so you may need to be within radar coverage as well. I've done my proving flights in the area between about KRYV and KUES and maybe 20 miles north of that line, using the BAE VOR for my "defined waypoint".

Hope this helps... Let us know how it goes for you!
 
Which transponder did you install?

Stratus ESG for me and I flew a racetrack 1000' above pattern altitude over class C airspace for 40 minutes. I had to be careful not to taxi too fast and come to a full stop afterwards so the transponder would auto-switch accordingly.

I have a Stratus ESG installed.
 
Here's the quickie maneuver checklist I made for doing these flights that has worked swimmingly:

ADS-B test flight:
  • Take off
  • Climb: Vy, at least one minute
  • Climbing: 2 left and 2 right 360º turns at 3000-5000 feet AGL, Vy, 30 degrees bank
  • Cruise: 2 left and 2 right 360º turns at 7000-10,000 feet AGL, Va, 30 degrees bank
  • Fly north/south course that crosses defined waypoint followed by east/west course crossing same waypoint
  • Descent: Cruise config, Vne-10, at least a minute
  • Descent: 2 left and 2 right 360º turns at 7000-2000 feet AGL, 1.4x Vs, 30 degrees bank
  • Approach/Landing config: Vfe-10, at least a minute
This is based on section 4.3.2 of Advisory Circular AC 20-165B - Airworthiness Approval of Automatic Dependent Surveillance - Broadcast OUT Systems which is the definitive requirement from the FAA. Oddly enough, with all of the warnings that you must fly the flight in "rule airspace" (B, C, or above 10,000), this requirement specifically states that you just need to be within the coverage of the FAA's ground network, and I have flown my flights outside rule airspace. I've seen some other references that they want to verify it using radar, so you may need to be within radar coverage as well. I've done my proving flights in the area between about KRYV and KUES and maybe 20 miles north of that line, using the BAE VOR for my "defined waypoint".

Hope this helps... Let us know how it goes for you!

Question: How long was you flight - more that 30 minutes or more that one hour; and why the need to fly between 7000-10000 feet? Can I land and do my taxi and ground operations at a Class G airspace airport?
 
Thanks, but too simplistic...

Maybe......................but this arrived in the mail today...

Y8VEQ8.jpg
 
Do something like this. Make sure you remain over Class C for a full 30 minutes.

IMG_3491.jpg
 
Here's the quickie maneuver checklist I made for doing these flights that has worked swimmingly:

ADS-B test flight:
  • Take off
  • Climb: Vy, at least one minute
  • Climbing: 2 left and 2 right 360º turns at 3000-5000 feet AGL, Vy, 30 degrees bank
  • Cruise: 2 left and 2 right 360º turns at 7000-10,000 feet AGL, Va, 30 degrees bank
  • Fly north/south course that crosses defined waypoint followed by east/west course crossing same waypoint
  • Descent: Cruise config, Vne-10, at least a minute
  • Descent: 2 left and 2 right 360º turns at 7000-2000 feet AGL, 1.4x Vs, 30 degrees bank
  • Approach/Landing config: Vfe-10, at least a minute
This is based on section 4.3.2 of Advisory Circular AC 20-165B - Airworthiness Approval of Automatic Dependent Surveillance - Broadcast OUT Systems which is the definitive requirement from the FAA. Oddly enough, with all of the warnings that you must fly the flight in "rule airspace" (B, C, or above 10,000), this requirement specifically states that you just need to be within the coverage of the FAA's ground network, and I have flown my flights outside rule airspace. I've seen some other references that they want to verify it using radar, so you may need to be within radar coverage as well. I've done my proving flights in the area between about KRYV and KUES and maybe 20 miles north of that line, using the BAE VOR for my "defined waypoint".

Hope this helps... Let us know how it goes for you!

So where is all the info about the proving flight "must be in rule airspace" coming from? I just got my Skybeacon signed off and have to do the proving flight this month for my rebate. I am about 50 miles from a Mode C veil, 50 miles from a Class C, and about 20 minutes straight down from 10,000' in my 150. If I don't have to do all 30 minutes of flight above 10,000, that would save some gas, but it would also suck to do the flight and not have it count because I was not in "rule airspace".

I guess I also question going Vne-10, seems cutting it a bit close for my taste - got to have a perfect smooth day to even try that. How often have you ever taken your planes to that close to Vne? I did have an instructor that gave me an unusual attitude under the hood in my pre-checkride checkout that got about that fast, but it is the only time I want to be that close to the "wings may rip off" speed.

Anyone find a link to something from the FAA that states the flight must be in rule airspace? I did a search and could not find anything else about the proving flight other than that AC listed above and it certainly makes no mention about rule airspace.
 
So where is all the info about the proving flight "must be in rule airspace" coming from? I just got my Skybeacon signed off and have to do the proving flight this month for my rebate. I am about 50 miles from a Mode C veil, 50 miles from a Class C, and about 20 minutes straight down from 10,000' in my 150. If I don't have to do all 30 minutes of flight above 10,000, that would save some gas, but it would also suck to do the flight and not have it count because I was not in "rule airspace".

I guess I also question going Vne-10, seems cutting it a bit close for my taste - got to have a perfect smooth day to even try that. How often have you ever taken your planes to that close to Vne? I did have an instructor that gave me an unusual attitude under the hood in my pre-checkride checkout that got about that fast, but it is the only time I want to be that close to the "wings may rip off" speed.

Anyone find a link to something from the FAA that states the flight must be in rule airspace? I did a search and could not find anything else about the proving flight other than that AC listed above and it certainly makes no mention about rule airspace.

Check out the link at the start of this conversation from Raymo, it's the AOPA article that say's any altitude as long as it's in controlled airspace according to the map provided in that article.
 
I didn't do ANY of that total nonsense. They don't give a darn about ANYTHING on the ground. My ADS=B track started when climbing out of 3000 ft.

vbc7tR.jpg


Don't make it harder than it is. Climb...........anywhere..........to 10,500' and do gentle maneuvering.
 
Yeah, but the AOPA article makes note that the rebate requirements from the FAA require the flight to be in Rule Airspace, but the AC does not mention this. Perhaps the rebate has different flight requirements than the basic proving flight for a system not asking for a rebate???
 
Yeah, but the AOPA article makes note that the rebate requirements from the FAA require the flight to be in Rule Airspace, but the AC does not mention this. Perhaps the rebate has different flight requirements than the basic proving flight for a system not asking for a rebate???
No, it’s the same rules.

Based at an airport below radar and ADSB ground tower coverage but within the mode c veil.
Flew to a class D airport with coverage about 10 miles closer to center of class b. Landed, taxi back, depart, flew to west side of class b but outside of class b and still in the veil. A couple of north south back and forth 15 mile legs, back to the Class D and landed. Taxi back and departure to based airport. STRATUS ESG.

An hour later the report was in the computer and the rebate filed.
 
Question: How long was you flight - more that 30 minutes or more that one hour; and why the need to fly between 7000-10000 feet? Can I land and do my taxi and ground operations at a Class G airspace airport?

Looks like it was just over an hour. And, it turns out I took off from my home drome (D), flew all the maneuvers, and then went and landed at a C:

Screen Shot 2019-03-04 at 10.39.49 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-03-04 at 10.40.23 PM.png

The 7-10,000 feet thing comes from Table 5 on page 44 of the AC.

Did you need to do a landing to a full stop? and then take off again?

No. Took off from the D, full stop landing at the C.

So where is all the info about the proving flight "must be in rule airspace" coming from?

Well, it's not only in the AOPA lit, it's also right there on the main ADS-B rebate page... Twice: https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/rebate/

Here's my theory: I think that they may have said what the AC says at some point, but then had a bunch of people who flew around in areas where there was either no, or spotty, ADS-B coverage from the FAA's ground network, so the test failed. Those people complained loudly, the rebate people got sick of hearing it, and so they put up the warnings about "rule airspace" to ensure that they'd have coverage where people were flying the tests.

IE, they're trying to make it idiot-proof... But I bet if you follow the AC to the letter it'll work just fine.

I just got my Skybeacon signed off and have to do the proving flight this month for my rebate. I am about 50 miles from a Mode C veil, 50 miles from a Class C, and about 20 minutes straight down from 10,000' in my 150. If I don't have to do all 30 minutes of flight above 10,000, that would save some gas, but it would also suck to do the flight and not have it count because I was not in "rule airspace".

It looks like you're in the Northeast. It's heavily populated out there, and I'm sure the ADS-B coverage is excellent. The AC specifies between 7000-10,000 AGL for the cruise tests. I looked at my track log, I did everything at 8000 MSL (which is *just* over 7000 AGL). I'm sure if you did the "cruise" portions at 7,000 AGL (7500 MSL out where you are?) that would be fine. And you don't have to spend 30 minutes up there, just in ADS-B coverage. I would start your flight by climbing to where your equipment (whatever it is) consistently is indicating that you have ADS-B coverage, and then start with the straight-ahead climb, do the climbing turns at 3000-5000 AGL, etc down the list of maneuvers I posted above.

I guess I also question going Vne-10, seems cutting it a bit close for my taste - got to have a perfect smooth day to even try that. How often have you ever taken your planes to that close to Vne? I did have an instructor that gave me an unusual attitude under the hood in my pre-checkride checkout that got about that fast, but it is the only time I want to be that close to the "wings may rip off" speed.

I've had my plane bumping right up against the underside of the red line... But, Vne doesn't mean your wings are going to rip off. I think if you *exceed* Vne, most likely the first adverse thing that will happen is control surface flutter... But that's just a guess. You do need smooth air to go that fast, but it doesn't have to be glass-smooth, just not "turbulent".

I see that your 150 has a pretty large yellow arc. My M20R's yellow arc is only 29 knots, but it seems the 150's is 34 knots and thus a much higher percentage of the allowable airspeeds. I'm also sure that you would have to darn near point the nose at the ground (at least it would seem that way from the cockpit) to get the 150 going 131 knots for a full minute at cruise power.

So, going back to the fact that their system is going to be looking for certain things, and given what I've read in the AC, I would expect that if you leave cruise power in and push over into a 1000-fpm descent for at least a minute, that you'll trip whatever trigger they're looking for. I would guess that they're looking for a definite initiation of the descent and a corresponding increase in speed.

Anyone find a link to something from the FAA that states the flight must be in rule airspace? I did a search and could not find anything else about the proving flight other than that AC listed above and it certainly makes no mention about rule airspace.

I posted a link above in this post with the FAA saying it twice on the rebate page, along with my theory as to why they say it and why I've been successful at my test flights without flying them in rule airspace.
 
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