Need help deciding on plane purchase

texasclouds

texasclouds

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Mark
I have 46 hrs, checkride this Friday. I want to get IR / Commercial ratings. Can’t decide what I want to do for my first plane. I want something with 100 kts cruise and no more than 10 gph burn.

I want a taildragger C140, C170, 7GCBC, Stinson 108, etc. Those can be had for 30-60k. They would be great VFR time builders but will not let me train or practice instruments. Hangar required for covering. Insurance higher.

My brain says smartest thing would be a Cherokee IFR with a 430 in it. Can use for instrument, practice approaches, and pickup IFR to get home with WX has deteriorated. I have seen nice ones for the same price range. Can tie down. Lower insurance cost.
 
Piper Warrior. Solid, dependable, every A&P knows how to work on them.

Beech Sierra or Sundowner. Beechcraft, what else to say. Just check trailing edge of wing for bird strike damage.

Grumman Traveller, Cheetah. You'll love the canopy that can open in flight.

Cessna Cardinal with 180hp engine. You'll love the doors. Also one of the widest cabins of the sub 200hp fleet.

Older Mooney 20F. A lot of bang for buck in terms of speed and fuel economy.
 
My first aircraft were gliders but my first plane was a tw Maule MX7-180a. I got my IFR in it. I had a hangar.

The skills gained in flying tailwheel, and gliders for that matter, may not directly apply to a pro career but I personally value them over all others.

You are agonizing over the right stuff. Good Luck!


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Globe Swift.

Taildragger, under 10gph fuel burn.
 
texasclouds said:
I have 46 hrs, checkride this Friday. I want to get IR / Commercial ratings. Can’t decide what I want to do for my first plane. I want something with 100 kts cruise and no more than 10 gph burn.

I want a taildragger C140, C170, 7GCBC, Stinson 108, etc. Those can be had for 30-60k. They would be great VFR time builders but will not let me train or practice instruments. Hangar required for covering. Insurance higher.

My brain says smartest thing would be a Cherokee IFR with a 430 in it. Can use for instrument, practice approaches, and pickup IFR to get home with WX has deteriorated. I have seen nice ones for the same price range. Can tie down. Lower insurance cost.
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Any of those plans can be used for IFR, just depends on the panel.

Also fabric planes do fine outside, just ask folks in AK, just going to be more wear and tear like leaving any plane outside.

Insurance wont be all that much more, especially after 6mo or so when you have some time under your belt flying it and after your instrument ticket.
 
James331 said:
Any of those plans can be used for IFR, just depends on the panel.

Also fabric planes do fine outside, just ask folks in AK, just going to be more wear and tear like leaving any plane outside.

Insurance wont be all that much more, especially after 6mo or so when you have some time under your belt flying it and after your instrument ticket.
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many of the older tail draggers i've seen feature basic vfr with maybe a single nav.

from what I understand, an airframe recover costs around $40-50k. I don't want to go down that road, or speed up the deterioration process by leaving it outside.

Avemco insurance told me discount 9% after 50 hrs in type, another 9% after 75-100 hrs, then 10% after one year. Not sure on the amount for IR, but it looks like after a year or two my rate would be cut in half. Coverage starts on day one, solo coverage after 10 hrs with CFI.
 
texasclouds said:
many of the older tail draggers i've seen feature basic vfr with maybe a single nav.

from what I understand, an airframe recover costs around $40-50k. I don't want to go down that road, or speed up the deterioration process by leaving it outside.

Avemco insurance told me discount 9% after 50 hrs in type, another 9% after 75-100 hrs, then 10% after one year. Not sure on the amount for IR, but it looks like after a year or two my rate would be cut in half. Coverage starts on day one, solo coverage after 10 hrs with CFI.
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Why would you buy a plane that needs a recover? Also most now are synthetic fabric, not many old cotton planes around today, and that synthetic stuff will outlast you if you take care of it.

On stinsons and 170s and the like lots have a simple navcom and a single nav head, not that hard to score a king ILS or one of those all in ones.


I’d say a simple radio swap into a S108 or C170 would put you miles ahead of buying a 172 with a king stack, way more fun and probably also less money.
 
James331 said:
Why would you buy a plane that needs a recover? Also most now are synthetic fabric, not many old cotton planes around today, and that synthetic stuff will outlast you if you take care of it.

On stinsons and 170s and the like lots have a simple navcom and a single nav head, not that hard to score a king ILS or one of those all in ones.


I’d say a simple radio swap into a S108 or C170 would put you miles ahead of buying a 172 with a king stack, way more fun and probably also less money.
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Are you saying I can buy a plane that was recovered in say 2000 that looks nice and leave it outside without deterioration within the next 5 years? From what I understand the covering lasts 20-50+ years depending on conditions, but the paint will crack before the covering fails. I've been told cracked paint on covering = recover to make it look nice again. Enlighten me.
 
Yes.

Tons of folks do that in Alaska and the like leave there’s outside, and depending on the quality of the job, the paint isn’t going to just crack the day you don’t hangar it.

And tossing covers on ANY outdoor plane is a good idea anyways.

Lots of folks don’t understand fabric, hence the APs who still try to cotton punch test modern fabric.
 
What's the load and range you're looking for? You can get a kick ass RV that is TAA for ~$60k and go all way to Commercial in it.
 
Ravioli said:
What's the load and range you're looking for? You can get a kick ass RV that is TAA for ~$60k and go all way to Commercial in it.
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300-500 mi XC will probably be the longest average distance. most probably 100-300 mi.

I'm 175 lbs, wife 130, son 150 lbs = 455 lbs

Most flying will probably be solo or with wife, but I would prefer to have the option to haul our boy.

I'm 6'2", I can fit in a C140 with adjustable 150 seats, I fit the Stinson 108 ok. I've only done 30 min flights in both, not sure how I would feel after 2-3 hrs. I've done one flight in a 150, fit ok. Most training in 172, have 4 hrs in a 7GCBC and fit fine.

instructor said i should have minimum a glide scope indicator and a vor needle (CDI).
 
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Ravioli said:
Buy for the main mission, rent for the rest.
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main mission is 250 hrs. if my plane isn't IFR then I have to rent. if I rent for IFR training then don't do any more IFR flying for a year, then I probably will forget it all. or once a month rent for IFR practice, and fly the rest in a VFR only plane.
 
I meant buy a 2 seat plane and rent when you need bigger.

I'd never recommend a VFR only plane to someone wanting to move up the food chain. In fact, I think IFR capable (but not currently certified) is the least I'd look at.

So sayeth the guy that pays for IFR certs and databases but is not currently rated to fly her that way.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Piper Warrior. Solid, dependable, every A&P knows how to work on them.
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I learned to fly in a Warrior, N16477 I think. If I could find that particular plane for sale I would buy it right now. It was in 1974 and I happened across and old receipt while looking through my first logbook. The cost was 29 bucks for an hour and a half rental. I imagine that the only planes that you could fly now for that are ones using the 80 to 100 HP Rotax engines. They claim only a 4 to 5 gal/hr fuel burn on automotive gas.
 
Joe Dively said:
I learned to fly in a Warrior, N16477 I think. If I could find that particular plane for sale I would buy it right now. It was in 1974 and I happened across and old receipt while looking through my first logbook. The cost was 29 bucks for an hour and a half rental. I imagine that the only planes that you could fly now for that are ones using the 80 to 100 HP Rotax engines. They claim only a 4 to 5 gal/hr fuel burn on automotive gas.
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I get 5 gal per hour of auto gas too! In my old 150f. The door seals leak, the VOR is inop, the paint is Ok, and I have gone as slow as 40 mph over the ground in a strong headwind, but she purrs nice and strong and took me to 12,600 recently with my O2 tank onboard.
 
Well my rain checked checkride was IFRed out Friday. DPE isn’t available for another two months. Looking for a new DPE. Super bummed.
 
Joe Dively said:
I learned to fly in a Warrior, N16477 I think. If I could find that particular plane for sale I would buy it right now.
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Looks like it was exported to Poland in 2008 or so. If you could find it for sale, you'd have an interesting ferry flight home!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Looks like it was exported to Poland in 2008 or so. If you could find it for sale, you'd have an interesting ferry flight home!
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I have to ask where you can find that out. I was looking all over the net for a place but couldn't find it. An interesting note I spent almost a year working for a Cybersecurity training company in Warsaw. I developed an online course for people looking to get their CISSP certification. I'd almost bet it would have been easy to find if I knew about it then. I bet the transport costs would be more than the value of the plane. I don't mind long trips over the ground but not across the ocean.

Just for arguments sake what is a good condition, not perfect but just good warrior from the late 60's to early 70's go for now?
 
Joe Dively said:
I have to ask where you can find that out. I was looking all over the net for a place but couldn't find it.
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https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?nNumberTxt=16477

Screen Shot 2019-03-02 at 8.14.06 PM.png

Reason for cancellation = Exported, Cancel date = 10/15/2008, Export to = Poland.

Just for arguments sake what is a good condition, not perfect but just good warrior from the late 60's to early 70's go for now?
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Well, it looks like it was actually a 1973 Cherokee 140 (unless you got the tail number wrong)... Looking here, it looks like they're mostly in the high $20K and $30K range:

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...pe=aircraft&s-sort_key=price&s-sort_order=asc
 
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