[NA] Interview aftermath

[saracelica]

So hoping to get feedback about this issue. Maybe someone who does the hiring can elighten me

I'm looking for a job not aviation but professional nonetheless

I spend time looking online for a job, write a cover letter or revise my standard one, submit my application. Some I get immediate rejection which is fine but some I get in person interviews. I mentally prepare for it, I research the company, I doll myself up and drive over to the interview.

Some are ten minutes, most recently it went on for two hours (I met four people) and then I get nothing. No response, no sorry we selected someone else. Is it really that hard to send an email thanking me for coming in and giving me closure?

Yes I send a thank you note to them for their time

 

[EdFred]

Yes, it is.

I had a friend in HR and she said they were told not bother getting back because if they do and say you didn't get the job, then the interviewee always asks why not, and if they say ANYthing that can be construed as some sort of discrimination, (and pretty much anything you say can be nowadays) here comes a lawsuit. So it's cheaper just to be rude and not worry about any sort of litigation. I had a friend who looked for a job for almost a year and went through a lot of the same things. Interview, and no follow up responses.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

I think it's fairly common to get no news unless it's good news. It works that way in our company.

 

[TCABM]

In the HR arena, the Thanks, but no thanks notification is becoming extinct for organizations with more than 15 people, as it creates more regulatory risk than it’s worth.

 

[jsstevens]

Unfortunately what @EdFred and @TCABM is the current practice. I distinctly dislike it and have lobbied to behave better here, but lawyers won that round...

 

[PPC1052]

At my firm, we send rejection letters. Typically, we tell them the position has been filled, but we will keep their resume on file in case we have another opening. We do go back and look at what resumes we have in house when we have another opening.

And for what it's worth, I hate e-mail thank yous. Send me a handwritten thank you. I won't read it, but I do expect you to send me one. And I will notice if you do not.

And for the love of God, do not misspell my name. I know my first name is weird. But, it's so weird that you are on notice that you probably aren't going to get it right without checking. I'm on the firm's web page. It's not hard.

 

[flhrci]

I feel this pain. Even a form rejection email would be better than nothing.

 

[Ravioli]

Not sure how this relates. But I interview for 1099 roles frequently, and I hire 1099 peeps occasionally. I usually hear from my potential employer, and I always tell my potential employees the outcome. Often my candidates know there is no match before the call ends. At worst I give them a call back the next day.

Some of the most successful interviews I've had did not result in a position. What I learned in the process was gold.

 

[atbroome]

If you won't read it, don't expect someone to send it and certainly don't deduct points if they do not. Solution: take those precious 30-120 seconds to actually read it. Why is your time worth so much more than theirs?

I've been on the hiring side of the interview table quite frequently in my career and I find thank you notes very useful. I don't care if they are hand written or emailed; what I do care about is if they are a form letter or actually show the person learned something about the company/position/working for me during the interview.

I won't read it, but I do expect you to send me one. And I will notice if you do not.

 

[PPC1052]

If you won't read it, don't expect someone to send it and certainly don't deduct points if they do not.

If I make the hiring decision, I make the rule. Not you.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

If I make the hiring decision, I make the rule. Not you.

Not sure I'd want to work for you...

Interviews go both ways, for the candidate to decide if they want to work at said location, not just for the future employer to pick and choose.

 

[frfly172]

At one time they would ,send you a note ,stating that your application ,was on file.

 

[Seanaldinho]

Whoa this is wild... Maybe I'm just in another industry but I've never heard of anyone doing this.

Back before email this was standard practice. Nowadays it seems there are two schools of thought from hiring managers: don't send an email because its low effort and lazy or don't send a written letter because its archaic and a bigger waste of my time. (How sincere of a thank you can you get from a one hour meeting with someone?)

As the interviewee, how do you tell what the manager prefers?

This is one of the big issues with hiring in my opinion. You have people who think their way is the best way and are inflexible to other approaches and potentially good employees lose out as a result. There are more important things to consider than what format someone uses to express their gratitude for an opportunity.

 

[PPC1052]

Not sure I'd want to work for you...

I am a sweetheart to work for. You would be very happy if you are good. Business etiquette expects that people send a thank you after an interview. If you can't do it, then that tells me something about your qualifications for the job. So, I absolutely do judge a candidate based on their compliance with recognized social norms.

Interviews go both ways, for the candidate to decide if they want to work at said location, not just for the future employer to pick and choose.

Absolutely. A lot of my interview time is spent trying to find out if we are a good fit for the candidate. The last thing I want to do is spend two years training up someone for him to jump ship because they don't want to work for us long term. But it is hard because candidates want a job and most are smart enough to try to convince me that they really do want to work for us.

 

[saracelica]

For the ten minute interview fine don't say anything. I was there for TWO HOURS. Gaaah

 

[PPC1052]

Whoa this is wild... Maybe I'm just in another industry but I've never heard of anyone doing this.

Not sure which is wild-- sending an e-mail or sending a handwritten thank you, or sending a thank you at all. I may be a bit of a dinosaur, but I prefer a handwritten thank you. I do get e-mail thank yous. I don't really downgrade for that, because it's become common enough that there is room for debate as to whether it's acceptable. But not sending one at all is clearly not acceptable. So, failing to send one is a black mark.

 

[Seanaldinho]

For the ten minute interview fine don't say anything. I was there for TWO HOURS. Gaaah

Unfortunately, interview length can't be a determinant on how things went. Our typical interview is a 6 hour day for the interviewee.

Come in and talk with the boss for an hour. Then do some job shadowing with the people you would work with. This lets you get an idea of our culture and daily life and gives us a better impression of you. (It's easy to be personable for an hour, but people revert to their true self after a few hours.) Then a few other people in the office will take you to lunch and talk with you in a less formal setting. The boss never attends lunch and its very casual. Then the interviewee does a little debrief with the boss and they leave.

This is just an example of a small company working in a niche industry, but seems to becoming common as more offices lose the white shirt and black tie mentality.

 

[PPC1052]

This is one of the big issues with hiring in my opinion. You have people who think their way is the best way and are inflexible to other approaches and potentially good employees lose out as a result.

Agreed. So, if it's an area where there is more than one possible right answer, I give it a pass. But to not send a thank you at all is not acceptable. Unfortunately, there is always going to be some person making a hiring decision out there somewhere that will have a unique pit-fall for the unwary. But, all you have to do is find one job. You don't have to be hired for all of them.

 

[jsstevens]

I've both written and received them. A long time ago I pretty much expected one. Now I would be pleasantly surprised by one, but it wouldn't (nor did it before) affect the outcome. I hire engineers. They can be (not necessarily are) pretty socially inept and still be excellent engineers. I'm more interested in the engineering part...

I do recommend sending one (I don't really care whether it's electronic or written) as a jog the memory device if the candidate hasn't heard anything. "Thank you for your time in the interview...
I really like/was impressed by x (make x genuine and company specific) at your company. Since I hadn't heard anything, I wondered if you needed any further information from me? Please feel free to contact me at ..."

John

 

[PPC1052]

Maybe this is because I'm in engineering, but I've NEVER heard of this. I just asked my co-workers and parents (also engineers) also... never heard of such a practice.

I suppose it could also be somewhat regional, as well. But I would counsel you that if you are looking to get hired in the mid west at a law firm, send a thank you. As long as you spell the name right, it probably won't hurt you to do so, and it almost certainly will hurt you if you do not.

 

[weilke]

I would like to see the cases where the fact that a company sent an email that says....

'Thanks for coming to the interview last week. At this point, the position has been filled. Good luck in your further pusuits.'

The Management​

....was successfully used by someone to argue discrimination in the hiring process. Sure, you can't write in your rejection that you dont hire wimins or that the applicants hair was too curly, but what would the legal argument be that hinges on a nondescript rejection message ?

 

[PPC1052]

I would like to see the cases where the fact that a company sent an email that says....

'Thanks for coming to the interview last week. At this point, the position has been filled. Good luck in your further pusuits.'

The Management​

....was successfully used by someone to argue discrimination in the hiring process. Sure, you can't write in your rejection that you dont hire wimins or that the applicants hair was too curly, but what would the legal argument be that hinges on a nondescript rejection message ?

We were dragged in front of the EEOC when we didn't give an interview to a person who wasn't even licensed to practice in our state. So, I would not doubt that such a claim has been attempted.

 

[jsstevens]

I would like to see the cases where the fact that a company sent an email that says....

'Thanks for coming to the interview last week. At this point, the position has been filled. Good luck in your further pusuits.'

....was successfully used by someone to argue discrimination in the hiring process. Sure, you can't write in your rejection that you dont hire wimins or that the applicants hair was too curly, but what would the legal argument be that hinges on a nondescript rejection message ?

It's not that email that gets you in trouble. It's the follow up call where the applicant says "What can I improve to help my chances next time?" Sounds proactive and desiring of help (and may be genuinely that). If you answer that question with darn near anything other than "We found a candidate that better meets our needs." beware of lawyers.

 

[PaulS]

So hoping to get feedback about this issue. Maybe someone who does the hiring can elighten me

I'm looking for a job not aviation but professional nonetheless

I spend time looking online for a job, write a cover letter or revise my standard one, submit my application. Some I get immediate rejection which is fine but some I get in person interviews. I mentally prepare for it, I research the company, I doll myself up and drive over to the interview.

Some are ten minutes, most recently it went on for two hours (I met four people) and then I get nothing. No response, no sorry we selected someone else. Is it really that hard to send an email thanking me for coming in and giving me closure?

Yes I send a thank you note to them for their time

Your resume sucks and you need to figure out if your interview style may suck too. Not enough info for me or any one else to really help you here, but I would advise seeking someone out to review your resume and talk to about interviewing. There are pros who do this for small amounts of money, or a successful friend may be able to help. From your writing you seem very intelligent, eager and you probably speak well. I think a few tweaks to the resume and interviewing style would work wonders for you.

Don't get discouraged, but you need to make some changes in how you are presenting yourself to these potential employers.

Some guy on the internet.

 

[weilke]

It's not that email that gets you in trouble. It's the follow up call where the applicant says "What can I improve to help my chances next time?" Sounds proactive and desiring of help (and may be genuinely that). If you answer that question with darn near anything other than "We found a candidate that better meets our needs." beware of lawyers.

Right, but thats a different issue from giving applicants a yay or nay after an interview ? Agree, if you start counsel people on what they are missing, you open yourself up, if you do get that call the answer is: 'The hiring process is complete and it is our policy not to comment any further beyond that.'

 

[-KLB-]

I can’t think of a single thank you that I received out of the dozens of interviews I’ve given. Roughly 22 years ago, I did fedex a thank you letter for a 4 hour interview, but I think the position was pretty much landed anyway. The next interview for the current job was all telephone interviews, roughly 4 hours total, split over the Christmas holidays. I never had any contact info that I could use to send thank you letters, as the only contact I had was the HR resource doing the scheduling. (Likely exactly why I never get thank you letters either) Apparently that all went well enough I was able to counter $5K higher and landed the position.

But yeah, the current risk landscape for providing feedback is enough reason to pretty much never hear back on negative decisions. Usually if you are still in consideration, you will hear something from us within a week. One of the guys I would love to hire back told me after he had been here a month, that after the phone interview, he was sure he would never hear from us again. I believe HR reached out a day later to schedule the on site interview. He also said that during the on site, he was still sure he would never hear from us again. I think he had his offer a few days later.

Maybe I’m sort of an odd interview. I probe the edges of what you know, and try to get some idea how you think. I’ll usually avoid the areas it appears you know, to focus on the boundary. If you can’t tell me you don’t know something during the interview, you won’t get a call back. Someone who doesn’t understand their limits, and get support when needed is very dangerous for me. I’ll also usually explain the right answer to at least something they missed. You can bet that they will get that question again during the on site to see if they retained it. And if I asked something that a curious person might go back and google, they will get that again to see if they are that sort of self motivated, always learning something new person.

 

[Cam Bender]

These days with word processors that can make real nice resumes, email, internet job boards and online applications, companies often get inundated with applicants even when they have no openings. So I think it is asking too much to expect a response to every job one applies for. However if a person gets called in for an interview, prepares for it, gets suited up, and maybe even travels considerable distance, they deserve some form of notice if they didn’t get the job. To not do this is rude and says a lot about a company, its culture and management. This is even more true if a thank you note is expected. Civility and social norms are a two way street.

 

[SoonerAviator]

. . . I've been on the hiring side of the interview table quite frequently in my career and I find thank you notes very useful. I don't care if they are hand written or emailed; what I do care about is if they are a form letter or actually show the person learned something about the company/position/working for me during the interview.

Yup. I don't expect a thank you letter, but I do appreciate them when I receive them. I also don't mind whether it's a physical letter or an email, as long as it expresses some form of appreciation for the opportunity and something identifiable from the interview discussion. It also allows me to evaluate their written communication to see how eloquent they can be, which can sometimes be difficult to ascertain while speaking verbally during the actual interview.

 

[eman1200]

Maybe this is because I'm in engineering, but I've NEVER heard of this. I just asked my co-workers and parents (also engineers) also... never heard of such a practice.

I've typically emailed a thank you email after every interview I've been on, or at least the ones I was interested in following up on. but I'm in IT so I think the email is perfectly acceptable. I've never hand written one or even thought about doing that.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Back in the day it was widely known Procter and Gamble prided itself on business etiquette. A friend of my older brother had an interview and received no follow up offer or rejection. He sent a nice letter of inquiry asking why not, and they were so embarrassed they offered him a position. He went through their brand management program, and spent a 30 year career getting well-paid selling soap.

Totally meaningless story, except to say that asking why you've not heard one way or the other can't hurt, and might help.

 

[murphey]

If you won't read it, don't expect someone to send it and certainly don't deduct points if they do not. Solution: take those precious 30-120 seconds to actually read it. Why is your time worth so much more than theirs?

I've been on the hiring side of the interview table quite frequently in my career and I find thank you notes very useful. I don't care if they are hand written or emailed; what I do care about is if they are a form letter or actually show the person learned something about the company/position/working for me during the interview.

When I send a thank-you, I mention the names of the people I met during the interview, and try to say somethin relevant about the discussion. Couldn’t hurt.

 

[murphey]

Maybe this is because I'm in engineering, but I've NEVER heard of this. I just asked my co-workers and parents (also engineers) also... never heard of such a practice.

I’m in engineering - major aerospace - and thank you notes are obligatory, a least in my part of the imdustry.

 

[PPC1052]

Back in the day it was widely known Procter and Gamble prided itself on business etiquette. A friend of my older brother had an interview and received no follow up offer or rejection. He sent a nice letter of inquiry asking why not, and they were so embarrassed they offered him a position. He went through their brand management program, and spent a 30 year career getting well-paid selling soap.

Totally meaningless story, except to say that asking why you've not heard one way or the other can't hurt, and might help.

When I was looking for a job, I sent a resume to a firm, but received no response after several weeks. I made a polite inquiry as to the status, and after checking and finding my resume, they scheduled me for an interview. Nothing wrong with a polite follow up after a reasonable time has elapsed, in my opinion.

 

[atbroome]

I suppose it could also be somewhat regional, as well. But I would counsel you that if you are looking to get hired in the mid west at a law firm, send a thank you. As long as you spell the name right, it probably won't hurt you to do so, and it almost certainly will hurt you if you do not.

Ah! Thats why we have different approaches: different industries. I can absolutely see why a law interview might require something both handwritten and a major demerit if not sent. Law requires following the rules.

I have always worked in groups that are customer-facing techie, so its a blend of engineering types and those that need to be able to work well with customers. I would be very shocked if someone sent me a handwritten note since they would have had to social engineer my address - I work from home, my office address is 3 states away, and I might get reminded I have mail when I show up every month or so.

I still say if someone sends you something you should at least take a few seconds to read it.

 

[atbroome]

Back in the day it was widely known Procter and Gamble prided itself on business etiquette. A friend of my older brother had an interview and received no follow up offer or rejection. He sent a nice letter of inquiry asking why not, and they were so embarrassed they offered him a position. He went through their brand management program, and spent a 30 year career getting well-paid selling soap.

Totally meaningless story, except to say that asking why you've not heard one way or the other can't hurt, and might help.

I find it endearing that in the P&G offices everything is still very clearly their brands. Bounty paper towels in special dispensers in the rest rooms for example.

 

[dtuuri]

If I make the hiring decision, I make the rule. Not you.

Sorry, this doesn't cut it. When you ask for applications you're asking for people's time. You owe them every courtesy for helping you fill a position.

 

[Van Johnston]

So hoping to get feedback about this issue. Maybe someone who does the hiring can elighten me

I'm looking for a job not aviation but professional nonetheless

I spend time looking online for a job, write a cover letter or revise my standard one, submit my application. Some I get immediate rejection which is fine but some I get in person interviews. I mentally prepare for it, I research the company, I doll myself up and drive over to the interview.

Some are ten minutes, most recently it went on for two hours (I met four people) and then I get nothing. No response, no sorry we selected someone else. Is it really that hard to send an email thanking me for coming in and giving me closure?

Yes I send a thank you note to them for their time

One suggestion, if you are not already doing this; at the end ask when they expect to make a decision and from who you should expect to hear back. That makes it even more legitimate if you have to follow-up because they didn’t, and you don’t have to guess about who to contact.

 

[PPC1052]

I still say if someone sends you something you should at least take a few seconds to read it.

Totally fair. But I'm still not going to read it. Yes, it's not fair. But life ain't fair. There is an imbalance of power, which is why I can't have romantic relationships with my subordinates without getting sued. So, I take advantage of that power by not reading my thank yous. It's the little things that make life worth living, I guess.

 

[PPC1052]

Sorry, this doesn't cut it. When you ask for applications you're asking for people's time. You owe them every courtesy for helping you fill a position.

Of course it cuts it. You don't get to make the rule either. I do. I owe them nothing other than a fair consideration of their merits for the job. I owe my partners a duty to select the best qualified candidate. I act accordingly.

 

[Van Johnston]

Recently became a hiring manager again after a 6 yr hiatus. My recent experience is the TY rate is about 50%; maybe a little more. Industry is defense contracting/engineering. That’s actually up from what I recall before. All e-mail; and I’m ok with that. Receive it immediately; and little chance it gets lost in a mail room at the address on my business card, which may be miles away from where I actually work. All that being said, whether or not I get a TY has never been the discriminator in hiring the person.