Help me out with understanding AD review, 100-hr. inspection

[alfadog]

I am a newish A&P (coming up on about 18 months active experience) and I am tasked with performing a couple of 100-hour inspections. I have already performed them under supervision so that is not the issue. I am doing these without supervision. I have done them at a busy shop in the past and am not too comfortable with what I "learned" there.

I would like some feedback primarily on AD review.

Let me make it perfectly clear that I am not addressing actual physical inspection and/or work on the a/c to make it safe for flight. I am asking about reviewing logs and paperwork.

1. Part 43 App D does not specifically mention AD review as a part of an annual/100-hr. Is there someplace that specifically mentions that as part of an inspection? Note that I do feel that, since the A&P is signing off the entire a/c as "airworthy" (§ 43.11(a)(4)), then he must be cognizant of AD status.

2. Similarly, if the A&P is signing off the entire a/c as "airworthy", he must review:
- The Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS) for conformance.
- Supplemental Type Certificates (STC) for conformance.
- STC requirements for continued airworthiness.
- Airworthiness Directives (AD).
Did I miss anything there? How many A&P's do you suppose do all that on a 100-hour? I know that did not occur at places that I have worked.

3. What do y'all think of compliance software platforms? Before the internet, I am sure they were vital but now? I had someone run one of the a/c I am working on on TData and I have a trial subscription going to AD Toolbox. How are those platforms any different from what I can generate directly from the FAA website and plug into a speadsheet template that I make one time and reuse. Both of those generate the same list of ADs that I can get from the FAA site and the A&P/IA must then go through all of those, regardless of how they were generated, with model numbers, part numbers, serial numbers to determine applicability.

4. And what about trusting AD summaries in the logbook. Why would one do that? By which I mean if an earlier A&P/IA says an AD is "N/A by S/N", are you going to take his word for that? Put your license in his hands or are you going to check for yourself? If the summary says "Previously complied with" (p/c/w) with a date then that is easy enough to check in the logbook also.

On a new-to-you airplane, how many hours do you think is appropriate to charge for this review including all the logbook work that goes with it on a simple aircraft, let's say a C172 or PA-28 from the mid-1970's with 5000 hours, compete logs.

 

[Raymo]

I think you answered your own question but here is my opinion on some of the above:

1. ADs are mandatory for the aircraft to be airworthy (the A in AD). Anyone flying the aircraft has the responsibility to ensure they are complied with but you as the A&P must do the research (at least once) when signing off that the aircraft can be returned to service.
2. Looks like you covered it.
3. The AD software makes the job much more efficient. Plug in the aircraft and engine serial numbers and you get a report. The spreadsheet method works but could take days.
4. Trust but verify. In other words, don't trust

All that research is why the first annual by a mechanic is more expensive. The review takes as long as it takes. Could be hours, could be days.

 

[Tom-D]

Require the owner to use ADlog. makes the whole job easy.
Any time the aircraft is returned to service after an inspection as "airworthy" AD compliance is required.

 

[alfadog]

Require the owner to use ADlog. makes the whole job easy.
Any time the aircraft is returned to service after an inspection as "airworthy" AD compliance is required.

What does ADlog charge for something like a mid-70's C172, Tom? They do not publish their prices on their website.

 

[Tom-D]

On a new-to-you airplane, how many hours do you think is appropriate to charge for this review including all the logbook work that goes with it on a simple aircraft, let's say a C172 or PA-28 from the mid-1970's with 5000 hours, compete logs.

I've seen it require several weeks. I've seen ADs complied with that the equipment wasn't even installed.
"entry " may of 2005 mags were changed from Bendix to Slicks
Annual 2011 all bendix ADs were complied with..
The owner threw a fit about the bill, reported it to FSDO, A&P got a warning, he made a big deal over it, and in the end lost his A&P certificate.

 

[Tom-D]

What does ADlog charge for something like a mid-70's C172, Tom? They do not publish their prices on their website.

You'll have to ask them, call them.

 

[alfadog]

You'll have to ask them, call them.

Just did, thanks. $165 initial plus $20 s/h and a bit more if you want a larger binder. $38/yr after that.

 

[Tom-D]

Just did, thanks. $165 initial plus $20 s/h and a bit more if you want a larger binder. $38/yr after that.

Sounds about right ------ DO IT.

 

[Tom-D]

1 year is all you need, all ADs are posted at the FAA.gov. just copy and paste

 

[alfadog]

1 year is all you need, all ADs are posted at the FAA.gov. just copy and paste

I was thinking the same

 

[Tom-D]

1 word of caution, when starting a new ADlog for your aircraft be certain that you do a complete review of records for Total Time In Service.
When you get it wrong, you will be wrong from now on.

 

[Tom-D]

The total time on Nxxx has been tabulated from previous maintenance records, pilot logs, and other records and believed to be ______ at this date __/____/____, and tach reading of_____

Name and number

 

[Bell206]

Part 43 App D does not specifically mention AD review as a part of an annual/100-hr. Is there someplace that specifically mentions that as part of an inspection?

Similarly, if the A&P is signing off the entire a/c as "airworthy", he must review:

Appendix D(j) covers everything not on the previous list and the remainder are covered in a catchall phrase in 43.11(b):
"If the person performing any inspection required by part 91 or 125 or §135.411(a)(1) of this chapter finds that the aircraft is unairworthy or does not meet the applicable type certificate data, airworthiness directives, or other approved data upon which its airworthiness depends,..."

What do y'all think of compliance software platforms?

A 2nd and 3rd to use ADLog. FYI: if you decide to use the FAA website for ADs remember to research historical ADs also.

what about trusting AD summaries in the logbook.

To give you the flip side on trust, when a DAR or ASI issue an Airworthiness Certificate they only need to check AD currency per the latest bi-weekly AD listing. However, it is always prudent to do your own check as you will be the one who owns it.

On a new-to-you airplane, how many hours do you think is appropriate to charge for this review

That depends. I flat rated 100hr (per Appendix D) which included all paperwork. If it was a new-to-me aircraft I charged a one time "get it on my system" charge. This worked for me. Find out what the going rate for an annual is in your area and reduce that price accordingly to what you think is fair to start.

 

[Dan Thomas]

I have found some ADs signed off as N/A, but they surely do apply. Some ADs require considerable effort to determine applicability. The last one was an AD against some Superior cylinders on an IO-520 that had been signed off as N/A. I checked and found that the serial numbers (which are hard to see and read) on five of the six cylinders were affected by the AD. The rocker covers were the original Continentals, and I bet the mechanic just looked at those and figured they were Continental cylinders.

And in almost every airplane the Bendix igntion switch is signed off as checked and found airworthy. In some of those cases the switch is an updated part with the date code stamped on it, and the AD doesn't apply, but mechanics religiously test it. And in other airplanes, they sign that AD off even though there's an ACS switch in it that has a totally different AD on it, and it's way out of compliance. You have to get under that panel and see what's there.

Ignition switches are appliances, and they don't normally show up on AD searches. You have to know what to look for. Carburetors, wheels, magnetos, and altimeters are some common ones.

 

[Tom-D]

Ignition switches are appliances, and they don't normally show up on AD searches. You have to know what to look for. Carburetors, wheels, magnetos, and altimeters are some common ones.

Transponder and other radio ADs are very difficult to find.
I've found Google is an easier search than the FAA and probably better.

 

[alfadog]

... FYI: if you decide to use the FAA website for ADs remember to research historical ADs also.

...

Thanks. Why do you say the above regarding historical ADs? Historical ADs are, by FAA definition "ADs that have been superseded or revised". The superceding or revised AD will show as current if applicable, n'est pas?

 

[Bell206]

The superceding or revised AD will show as current if applicable,

Yes. But if you are complying with a complete AD search "current" will leave you short. An example with fake numbers:
AD 2019-12-4 supercedes or revises AD 2016-23-6. When the latter AD came out in 2016 there should be a sign off in the book at that time. By only checking "current" you'll never see the requirement for the 2016 directive. The pay for play AD services search both databases and give you pretty printout to check and/or sign off current and if needed historical ADs. FYI: the FAA works on a "closed" system model which is based on the assumption everyone performs their job flawlessly in accordance with the FARs. Hence the reason "current" doesn't look back for previously required sign offs.

 

[Silvaire]

I used to use TData but since it all went online at the FAA site I found it easier to just use that. I created a simple XL spreadsheet and when I cut and paste the AD’s they actually paste as hyper-links that will open the pdf when you click on them. Compliance reports are now a single sheet of paper rather than the 30 page book TData wanted to print out.

It’s the first 100 hr/annual you do that takes all the effort, the second and subsequent ones are much easier.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Transponder and other radio ADs are very difficult to find.
I've found Google is an easier search than the FAA and probably better.

It can be fun tracking down ADs for the typical MS carb. Look at the history:

• Borg-Warner designated the Marvel-Schebler Division in 1934.
• Marvel-Schebler moved to Decatur, Illinois in 1948 and opened a new plant in 1950
• Facet Aerospace Products Co. purchased the company from Borg Warner in 1982, in April of 1983 the Decatur plant closed.
• Facet sold the Marvel-Schebler product line to Zenith Fuel systems in 1990.
• Precision Airmotive Corporation bought the aviation carburetor line from Zenith in 1990.
• In March of 2008 Volare bought the MSA carburetor line assets from Precision Airmotive LLC.
• March 2008, MSA carburetors and OEM replacement parts began being marketed under the TEMPEST® Plus Marketing Group.
• In August of 2010, Volare Carburetors LLC acquired the Marvel-Schebler trademark.
• In 2010, TEMPEST announced that the manufacturer formerly known as Volare Carburetors LLC is now Marvel-Schebler Aircraft Carburetors LLC; marketing efforts to remain under the TEMPEST brand.
• Effective March 1, 2011 Marvel-Schebler Aircraft Carburetors LLC began marketing its Marvel-Schebler OEM line of carburetors and replacement parts.

So, finding a list of ADs for, say, an MA-3SPA carb can mean a lot of digging to make sure you have it covered. A pain.

Bendix magnetos are listed under Bendix, Bendix Electrical Components Division, and TCM. Slick is under Slick and Champion. It's a real dog's breakfast.

 

[Tom-D]

It can be fun tracking down ADs for the typical MS carb. Look at the history:

• Borg-Warner designated the Marvel-Schebler Division in 1934.
• Marvel-Schebler moved to Decatur, Illinois in 1948 and opened a new plant in 1950
• Facet Aerospace Products Co. purchased the company from Borg Warner in 1982, in April of 1983 the Decatur plant closed.
• Facet sold the Marvel-Schebler product line to Zenith Fuel systems in 1990.
• Precision Airmotive Corporation bought the aviation carburetor line from Zenith in 1990.
• In March of 2008 Volare bought the MSA carburetor line assets from Precision Airmotive LLC.
• March 2008, MSA carburetors and OEM replacement parts began being marketed under the TEMPEST® Plus Marketing Group.
• In August of 2010, Volare Carburetors LLC acquired the Marvel-Schebler trademark.
• In 2010, TEMPEST announced that the manufacturer formerly known as Volare Carburetors LLC is now Marvel-Schebler Aircraft Carburetors LLC; marketing efforts to remain under the TEMPEST brand.
• Effective March 1, 2011 Marvel-Schebler Aircraft Carburetors LLC began marketing its Marvel-Schebler OEM line of carburetors and replacement parts.

So, finding a list of ADs for, say, an MA-3SPA carb can mean a lot of digging to make sure you have it covered. A pain.

Bendix magnetos are listed under Bendix, Bendix Electrical Components Division, and TCM. Slick is under Slick and Champion. It's a real dog's breakfast.

That's why carbs have data tags. who made the carb must be on the tag.

 

[Dan Thomas]

That's why carbs have data tags. who made the carb must be on the tag.

Usually works until you run into ADs like this one: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...A27CD5F612E9128586256A330055C532?OpenDocument

It applied to MS and Facet carbs, but the AD is old enough that a lot of carbs have been rebuilt by other folks and the lockwiring has been removed, or a mechanic removed it for some reason. There is no annual inspection requirement for that AD, so it goes unaddressed. And then some later outfit PMA's that model and builds it, so their name is on the tag and it never shows up on any AD search, yet they still have that risky lever attachment. Here's an MA4-5, affected by that AD, without the lockwiring:

 

[Tom-D]

Usually works until you run into ADs like this one: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...A27CD5F612E9128586256A330055C532?OpenDocument

It applied to MS and Facet carbs, but the AD is old enough that a lot of carbs have been rebuilt by other folks and the lockwiring has been removed, or a mechanic removed it for some reason. There is no annual inspection requirement for that AD, so it goes unaddressed. And then some later outfit PMA's that model and builds it, so their name is on the tag and it never shows up on any AD search, yet they still have that risky lever attachment. Here's an MA4-5, affected by that AD, without the lockwiring:

When you have customers that are still running these old carbs, you as an A&P -IA are not doing them any favors by allowing them to continue operating this out dated equipment.

 

[Dan Thomas]

When you have customers that are still running these old carbs, you as an A&P -IA are not doing them any favors by allowing them to continue operating this out dated equipment.

When it's on a 1970s Cessna 180, what you gonna do? Get a rebuilt carb with the same arrangement? That's what happens.

 

[Tom-D]

When it's on a 1970s Cessna 180, what you gonna do? Get a rebuilt carb with the same arrangement? That's what happens.

That throttle arrangement went away a long time ago.