Let the crazy begin...

Those are very good rates.
 
Skyrys62 said:
Agree.. I'd wear that Cherokee 140 out for training. Than move into the others for longer X-country flying until you find you a plane you like.
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Hey I fly my Cherokee on cross countries! :p:D
 
texasclouds said:
I suggest the Cherokee 140 for training PPL.
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Please explain why you suggest the Cherokee 140. What do you like about it? One of the pros and cons, especially compared to these other planes?
 
FlySince9 said:
@FP1000 don’t forget, those numbers are without an instructor so the DA40, for example, might be more like $230/hr
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Correct...ish.

CFI is $45/hr. I didn’t include that because I was really interested in the thoughts of POA regarding the specific planes. However you are correct, there is a bit more per hour when the instructor is included.
 
texasclouds said:
OP, street bikes or dirt bikes? I ride single track on my YZ 2-strokes.
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Oh boy.

I’m really into long distance road rally-riding. This summer I’m doing an 11-day 11,000 mile road trip.

I was on an FJR-1300 until I hit a deer in Montana a year ago. Broke my leg, destroyed the bike. Got a new ‘18 Goldwing, still have (another) FJR. There’s a few dirt bikes in the garage including a Yamaha WR250F and (my fav) an ‘18 Husqvarna 701. Took that Into the deserts of the Utah south west for a week of adventure riding last October. That was incredible. So I love ADV riding as well.
 
FP1000 said:
Correct...ish.

CFI is $45/hr. I didn’t include that because I was really interested in the thoughts of POA regarding the specific planes. However you are correct, there is a bit more per hour when the instructor is included.
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Umm...where I live, for a CFI out of a FBO you have a fantastic instructor rate. Around here lots of $75/hr...$85/hr just for the instructor.

You have nice set of choices for planes. I would think you would want some of your time in one that is sure to be lethargic/anemic in your summertime high DA days. Would it make any sense to do part in the DA-20 and part in the DA-40? I am also curious why the recommendation or the Cherokee.

I know this might suck as will seem a waste a few precious flying hours (but they are loggable)...but why not do a flight in a Diamond and a flight in the Cherokee. Heck, even just sit in them but have someone your instructor's size (another student, a friend, etc) sit next to you. Think about how you get in and out! Can you reach things okay. Is a stick over a yoke a big deal. Visibility differences. Do you feel "trapped" in the Cherokee that has only one door...and its not yours, etc.
 
FP1000 said:
So the training company that I’ve been talking with has the following planes, and they keep an extra set of functioning planes (doubles) at another airport with CFIs at that facility as well (they train out of both). The second airport is about 25 miles south of the first airport.

They are telling me the sport cruiser is the one to train on for my PPL. Thoughts, observations? As an LSA, How will that affect my overall readiness to take on a larger plane down the road?

Diamond DA-20
N802CT - A Diamond DA-20 with a Lycoming IO-240B engine. $125/hr wet

Piper Cherokee 140 D
N7625F - A Piper Cherokee 140D with a Lycoming engine. $90/hr wet

Diamond DA-40
N321PF - A Diamond DA-40 with a Lycoming IO-360 engine. $175/hr wet

Piper Arrow IV
N160LL - A Piper Arrow IV (PA-28RT) with a Lycoming IO-360 engine. $175/hr wet

Piper Sport Cruiser
N802PS - A Piper Sport Cruiser with a Rotax 912 ULS engine. $99/hr wet
Click to expand...

Of these aircraft, the Arrow and the DA-40 should be removed for primary training purposes. First reason, cost. Second reason, they are "too much" airplane for your initial needs. Primary training involves flying an aircraft at slower speeds so you can get a feel for what the controls do. This means you're flying in the 80-90 knot indicated airspeed range and maneuvering. The Arrow and DA-40 are good "go someplace" aircraft where you climb to a cruise altitude, go straight, and go reasonably fast.


The Cherokee 140 is a popular aircraft for primary training. Robust, simple, affordable. And at $90 wet, it is an incredible bargain. If I had my choice to train you in, I would be selecting this one. The only place a Cherokee 140 would suffer is higher altitudes or hotter climates like Phoenix or Yuma in the summer. That not withstanding, that would be a very good choice for you to train in.

The Diamond DA-20 is another really good aircraft for primary training. Excellent visibility with the bubble canopy, good performance on the controls, and good performance in the air. Because it is a very slick airplane (composite design and no rivets worth mentioning) and it has a wing based on a popular glider design, you will learn how to achieve stabilized landing approaches at the proper speed. Come in on final too fast and you will float down the runway for a loooooong time. But nail the speeds and it's a greaser landing each time.

The Sport Cruiser has gained recent fame with the flight schools because of it's lower acquisition cost and a relatively low cost to maintain and keep on the flight line. It too is a fine choice for primary training. That it is classed as an LSA has zero, repeat zero, drawbacks toward flying larger, heavier, faster piston aircraft. All aircraft fly basically the same, and skills acquired in one quickly transfer to all the others.


If I was to provide any specific advice on which aircraft to choose, I would suggest this: Go sit in each aircraft for at least 10 to 15 minutes. Adjust the seat and pedals so that you are sitting in the same position you would be when flying it. The point is that not every aircraft "sits" the same for the different humans. One student might be super comfy in the Sport Cruiser, but the next is cramped and uncomfortable.

A basic rule of instruction and learning is that physiological needs (including comfort), and safety needs (including "do I feel safe in this airplane"") must be met before the student can learn effectively. If you cannot be comfortable in that seat for 60-90 minutes at a time, you're ability to learn diminishes rapidly the more uncomfortable you get. The same if you are in an aircraft you don't trust to keep you safe.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Of these aircraft, the Arrow and the DA-40 should be removed for primary training purposes. First reason, cost. Second reason, they are "too much" airplane for your initial needs. Primary training involves flying an aircraft at slower speeds so you can get a feel for what the controls do. This means you're flying in the 80-90 knot indicated airspeed range and maneuvering. The Arrow and DA-40 are good "go someplace" aircraft where you climb to a cruise altitude, go straight, and go reasonably fast.


The Cherokee 140 is a popular aircraft for primary training. Robust, simple, affordable. And at $90 wet, it is an incredible bargain. If I had my choice to train you in, I would be selecting this one. The only place a Cherokee 140 would suffer is higher altitudes or hotter climates like Phoenix or Yuma in the summer. That not withstanding, that would be a very good choice for you to train in.

The Diamond DA-20 is another really good aircraft for primary training. Excellent visibility with the bubble canopy, good performance on the controls, and good performance in the air. Because it is a very slick airplane (composite design and no rivets worth mentioning) and it has a wing based on a popular glider design, you will learn how to achieve stabilized landing approaches at the proper speed. Come in on final too fast and you will float down the runway for a loooooong time. But nail the speeds and it's a greaser landing each time.

The Sport Cruiser has gained recent fame with the flight schools because of it's lower acquisition cost and a relatively low cost to maintain and keep on the flight line. It too is a fine choice for primary training. That it is classed as an LSA has zero, repeat zero, drawbacks toward flying larger, heavier, faster piston aircraft. All aircraft fly basically the same, and skills acquired in one quickly transfer to all the others.


If I was to provide any specific advice on which aircraft to choose, I would suggest this: Go sit in each aircraft for at least 10 to 15 minutes. Adjust the seat and pedals so that you are sitting in the same position you would be when flying it. The point is that not every aircraft "sits" the same for the different humans. One student might be super comfy in the Sport Cruiser, but the next is cramped and uncomfortable.

A basic rule of instruction and learning is that physiological needs (including comfort), and safety needs (including "do I feel safe in this airplane"") must be met before the student can learn effectively. If you cannot be comfortable in that seat for 60-90 minutes at a time, you're ability to learn diminishes rapidly the more uncomfortable you get. The same if you are in an aircraft you don't trust to keep you safe.
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You a CFI already or somethin? o_O:p
 
Seems like the OP will get some high DA experience since he'll be launching/landing above 4000msl and summer temps probably being part of his training even if he starts now.
 
CC268 said:
You a CFI already or somethin? o_O:p
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Getting closer each day!

I still remember the time about 3-4 years ago when you appeared asking some of the same questions about getting started... and dealing with your pulmonary issues.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Getting closer each day!

I still remember the time about 3-4 years ago when you appeared asking some of the same questions about getting started... and dealing with your pulmonary issues.
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Hmm...bit heavy handed to say "pulmonary issues". I have asthma, which doesn't even come into play unless I am sick. Certainly never been an issue for obtaining a medical. Maybe you were thinking of another fella.
 
CC268 said:
Hmm...bit heavy handed to say "pulmonary issues". I have asthma, which doesn't even come into play unless I am sick. Certainly never been an issue for obtaining a medical. Maybe you were thinking of another fella.
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More like I couldn't remember which specific lung thing it was and didn't take the time to go searching for your first threads
 
FP1000 said:
Well, medical exam is done. Certificate in hand.

Really appreciate all the insight, thanks guys!!!
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First hurdle cleared.!!

Welcome to the site, and keep us updated. Good luck, we are all counting on you.


FP1000 said:
have five kids. Favorite hobbies are motorcycles and SCUBA.
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Yeah, what were those favorite hobbies again.?? :lol::lol:
 
When it comes to early learning in flying. There is a law of diminishing returns that applies. The longer you go the less you learn, in fact you can go backwards!! Be patient. Trust the process.
 
Welcome to POA! If you want to compress your training by having more training hours in a day, I'd recommend a morning lesson for an hour or so, followed by an afternoon (or evening as the days get longer) lesson. Have at least a 4 hour break to reset your brain between lessons. The real key isn't longer lessons/more hours in day, but flying as many days in a row as you can. Your work schedule of being gone for 10 days at a time is gonna hurt the training cycle a bit.
 
Received my FAR/AIM book today. Where should I begin?
How do you most appropriately use these rules? It’s impossible to memorize everything. I need a map to approach how to best consume and digest this monster text.
I assume most courses teach everything necessary in the rules without requiring the student to necessarily know the source material.
 
FP1000 said:
Received my FAR/AIM book today. Where should I begin?
How do you most appropriately use these rules? It’s impossible to memorize everything. I need a map to approach how to best consume and digest this monster text.
I assume most courses teach everything necessary in the rules without requiring the student to necessarily know the source material.
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Read the whole thing through. I do, each time I get a new one (which is every few years.)
 
Being on the North side of 250 pounds (I ain't heavy, I'm his brother) most LSA's won't carry enough fuel to leave the pattern if the instructor is coming with..... and flying solo, you have to put all the fuel in the right wing, LOL!
 
FP1000 said:
Received my FAR/AIM book today. Where should I begin?
How do you most appropriately use these rules? It’s impossible to memorize everything. I need a map to approach how to best consume and digest this monster text.
I assume most courses teach everything necessary in the rules without requiring the student to necessarily know the source material.
Click to expand...

I would start with the bit of Part 61 called "Student Pilots", followed by the bit called "Private Pilots". In particular, search out the bits called "Privileges and Limitations" or something similar. These are the bits that talk about what Student Pilots and PP's are allowed to do and not allowed to do, which is important to know.
From there, go to Part 91, and the first two sections about Flight Rules (General, and VFR).
From there, go to the AIM, and pick whatever chapters look most interesting. The "Air Traffic Control" chapter has stuff about talking on the radio and entering traffic patterns. The "Safety of Flight" chapter has stuff about weather. These are both things you'll be dealing with early in training, so I'd start there.

Courses will teach you what you need to know, but you should know *where to find/look up* any of it in the original FAR/AIM. Most examiners will keep digging with their questions until they find something that forces you to look up something. :)
 
I started the process last August. The only advice I can offer it to make sure your schedule actually fits with your CFI of choice’s schedule. It has caused me a real hold up in my progress as my CFI and I now only align 2 days a week. (one of those days is the morning after my 3rd shift) Get some bad weather and you start getting real set backs. I really like my CFI and he does a great job, though I might not have chose him if I had seen this coming.
 
FP1000 said:
Received my FAR/AIM book today. Where should I begin?
How do you most appropriately use these rules? It’s impossible to memorize everything. I need a map to approach how to best consume and digest this monster text.
I assume most courses teach everything necessary in the rules without requiring the student to necessarily know the source material.
Click to expand...
Set the FAR/AIM to one side for now and have handy more as a reference than a primary textbook.

Obtain copies of the Airplane Flying Handbook and the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge (both downloadable for free from the FAA website).

Start reading those as your textbooks.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Set the FAR/AIM to one side for now and have handy more as a reference than a primary textbook.

Obtain copies of the Airplane Flying Handbook and the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge (both downloadable for free from the FAA website).

Start reading those as your textbooks.
Click to expand...


Got them
Will start digging into them this week.
 
kath said:
I would start with the bit of Part 61 called "Student Pilots", followed by the bit called "Private Pilots". In particular, search out the bits called "Privileges and Limitations" or something similar. These are the bits that talk about what Student Pilots and PP's are allowed to do and not allowed to do, which is important to know.
From there, go to Part 91, and the first two sections about Flight Rules (General, and VFR).
From there, go to the AIM, and pick whatever chapters look most interesting. The "Air Traffic Control" chapter has stuff about talking on the radio and entering traffic patterns. The "Safety of Flight" chapter has stuff about weather. These are both things you'll be dealing with early in training, so I'd start there.

Courses will teach you what you need to know, but you should know *where to find/look up* any of it in the original FAR/AIM. Most examiners will keep digging with their questions until they find something that forces you to look up something. :)
Click to expand...


Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for your thoughtful insight.
 
FP1000 said:
Got them
Will start digging into them this week.
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Also add to the list the following Advisory Circulars from the FAA (also available for download as well as print)
Aviation Weather
Aviation Weather Reporting Services.​

The entirety of these texts won't be part of your private pilot learning, but key items from these texts will be. Especially interpreting Terminal Aerodrome Forecasts, METARS, Winds Aloft Forecasts, weather systems, fronts, weather charts, and others.

Later, when you dive into Instrument Airplane (aka IFR) you will be digging really deep into these texts.
 
kath said:
Courses will teach you what you need to know, but you should know *where to find/look up* any of it in the original FAR/AIM. Most examiners will keep digging with their questions until they find something that forces you to look up something.
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@FP1000 ... the above is a big takeaway from what Kath shared....

As you learn the topics, also learn where you can find the reference that supports the details of the topic being learned.

Kath is correct that the examiner will try to create a rabbit hole or two for you to fall into and let you continue until you're stuck. But if you know where to find the proper reference that answers his question, it will be the "Phone a Friend" lifeline that will really help.

Often the examiner wants to not just know the extend of what you can remember during the examination, but he also wants to know that you know where to look up the answer should he start winning the "stump the student" game.
 
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