SoonerAviator
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SoonerAviator
Apologize, I meant the non-WAAS 430 (comparable to the GX-series). My mistake.
Jeppesen discontinues NavData for GX series
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mkosmo
Pattern Altitude
While you're not wrong about the resiliency of the platform, you do know these have full blown GPS receivers, right? I'm worried your information may be a bit dated. Even the low-end phones handle 3D accuracy as well as any other non-SBAS GPS receiver. The wifi augmentation was developed when SBAS was too expensive to incorporate... but these days? Several have WAAS capabilities now. Worst case, external receivers are an option, and provide the same level of accuracy.
These portable devices are more than capable of providing the same level of accuracy of a panel mounted device... but focusing on that is asking the wrong question. The real question is: Do you trust your life to a device that doesn't have to pass the same environmental and stress validation as certified (the test labels, not necessarily FAA for p23) equipment?
Not all of them...
Non-WAAS 430 is a total waste of money. Garmin won't repair some of them anymore (the 28v only units). Plus, the non-WAAS unit requires a field approval to install IFR.
SoonerAviator
Final Approach
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SoonerAviator
Well, you can waste money on a GNS-430 and continue to get updates from Jepp, or pony up the extra $2K for a 430-WAAS unit. Garmin isn't repairing the GX-series at all, so no real difference there. We can't expect Jeppesen to continue supporting updates for a GPS system from Garmin that is essentially two decades old. It'd be like trying to get Pentium to roll out updates/patches for Windows 98 OS. It just isn't a profitable business model. I get that it sucks to take a perfectly functioning GPS out of commission, but that's the price of advancing technology. It's especially painful when you can get a tablet and Stratux/other WAAS source to display the same data for 1/20th the price of any new item.
A replacement GX unit can be sourced from eBay for under $1k when it quit, a 430 (non-WAAS) isn't that cheap. The extra $2k for the WAAS unit is, unfortunately, a sound use of resources. This really is a rabbit hole, though, as the delta between a 430W and a used GTN650 is only about $2500. One is 20 years old, the other isn't.
tspear
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Timothy
Yes, most smartphones have GPS receivers. However, GPS chipsets consume a fair amount of power. The solution is to use WiFi to augment and use WiFi to find the local region and then use a combination of GPS chips and accelerators to manage battery usage and attain higher accuracy by cycling the chips on/off and tracking two satellites versus four/five needed for WAAS. I made the mistake of asking an engineer who works on Android to explain it; thinking back to it still makes my head hurt.
In terms of trust, for en-route. Sure, I could get there via having two or three devices. For approach, nope; I will pay the extra.
Tim
mkosmo
Pattern Altitude
Wifi augmentation is an optional thing, it's entirely unnecessary. The battery optimization is also optional, and GPS intensive apps (eg Garmin Pilot, or even Google Maps) will request what is effectively "high precision mode" which also disables those features. And I'm not sure who would tell you it only tracks two satellites, because that's utter nonsense.
tspear
En-Route
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Timothy
The Andriod engineer. I am not sure I can regurgitate it all correctly; two satellites plus the surface of the earth basically offer a plane, two points and limited possible vectors to the points. The combination of these generates two possible intersections. By using known WiFi points, you can eliminate one of the two locations possible locations. Therefore most smartphones to save battery power only track two satellites.
Note: I am not saying it cannot do all location via GPS chips; but the default is to use a mixed mode solution to save power and computing capacity.
Tim
mkosmo
Pattern Altitude
There was likely a misunderstanding, then. While there are ways to do exactly what you're talking about, you're not limited. If you don't believe me, the source of truth is here: https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/location/strategies
labbadabba
Pattern Altitude
Most legacy CAP planes have the old Apollo GPS in them. That's few thousand subscriptions there but yeah, the GX50/55/60 is a PITA. Worse than a KLN90.
simtech
En-Route
Most people using an iPad will have a stratus unit. For instance I have the stratus esg and a stratus 2. So..my forflight has a waas gps source. I have shot approaches with the gx60 and with foreflight running and everything all cross checks. So if the waas source is certified in the esg I would suspect it's good enough for fore flight..but now your hinging your bet on the ipad in which again most people do as an EFB anyway. If I'm flying any XC I always bring paper plates with me too. Never needed them though. And 2 ipads. And well my trusty gx60.
simtech
En-Route
They have extended support now until 3 Dec 2020.
dell30rb
Final Approach
ditto
About 550 or so aircraft when I dropped out in 2013. . .a lot of GX-55s, but not in new buys, obviously. There was a movement to Garmin 400s (430 without the radio).
Tech is funny, and the newer stuff less mature - backward compatbility was common until the 1990s or so - I saw banking and insurance apps written for mainframes in the 1960s, still running on hardware built 40+ years later.
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
FTFY.
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
It's not done by script. Every 56 days the data must be re-validated and any changes/deleted made. Not trivial, time-consuming, and there are 2 shifts of staff that are devoted to performing the revalidation.
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
Colorado Wing 182s all have (or will have) G1000 and all now have GTX 345 ADSB.
Chip Sylverne
Final Approach
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Quit with the negative waves, man.
Isn't that necessary for all the data supplied to every model of navigator? Once that master data file is validated, how is it converted to the various formats required by the GX, gns, etc.? I find it hard to believe that would be done manually.
However, I see Garmin has relented and given us 24 mos to make the change. The breathing room beyond the ads-b deadline crush is appreciated.
labbadabba
Pattern Altitude
Oh, most of them still are on MF. I've worked at 3 major banks, all on MF. My current one though is transitioning away (actually sitting in a system integration meeting about it at the moment...)
arnoha
Cleared for Takeoff
I wonder if any of this is due to a sudden influx of orders as people wanted to get the latest before it runs out. Now...there's money in it, so an extension!
Yep; Gartner figured out it was the cheapest per-user platform, once past a certain threshold, back 20 years or more ago. Distributed wasn't nearly ready for prime time when it was first being touted - way before the tools to manage were extant. I remember the original client-server falling way short of promise, under performing, and needing a cast of thousands to support. Going to browser-as-client, and things like AD helped a lot.
I'm surprised how many eCommerce sites are MF served, but they pretty much have the same tools now as any other platform - the user experience isn't any diffrent. . .