Foreigner woman - Private pilot license

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Marion

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Jan 22, 2019
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Marion
Good evening all!

I am so happy I found this forum which looks very interesting and helpful.

I am a French woman living in the US and yesterday I had my discovery flight for a private pilot license and I totally enjoyed it. Now I am just thinking about going back there again.

I feel comfortable that I will pass the several exams but there is one thing that I am concerned about:
As said above, I am French and I have an accent when speaking and sometimes I do not understand every word when somebody speaks to me in English.

So I would be very glad to read any testimony either from a foreigner who went through this or somebody who has worked with a foreigner who is not perfectly fluent in English.
Did you encounter any communication problems when in the plane?
I am afraid that it could be a problem and I could make something stupid because I did not understand well what I was told in the headsets.

Thank you very much for your help.
 
Welcome!

Based on your first post I would say your english is pretty good, better in fact than some native speakers!

at least where I live in the San Diego area it is very common to hear english as second language on the radio.. two of my good pilot friends are from Germany and Ukraine and learned english after they moved here

I think you will do fine and have the right attitude and look forward to hearing about your journey here on this forum!!
 
^also, Air Traffic Control uses standard phraseology, so if you get comfortable with their terms you shouldn't generally be caught offguard and there's no shame in asking them to "say again"
 
Go check out South FL, there are flight students from all over the world. The vast majority have had to learn English before and now improving during flight training. Some schools and locations would have more experience in this area. For the most part one would have to start off with ‘aviation English’, though the rest will bleed through.

Just saying, it can be overcome, don’t let it hold you back, providing all the rest is in line. The other criteria being motivation, time, $$$, etc..
 
Tantalum said:
and there's no shame in asking them to "say again"
Click to expand...
"Words Twice" is also a useful request to know.

In addition to standard phraseology there's also a certain rythm and cadence that most ATC use that once you get used to it helps with any language issues.
 
I am natural born American and I sometimes don't understand what is said over the radio. As others have said, use and study the standard terminology and you'll be okay 95% of the time. For that other 5% just tell them to rephrase and say again. Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.
 
As mentioned above, a lot of standard phraseology, so you know what to expect and what to say with some variations.

You will need to apply in advance for pilot training as you are not a US National. Homeland Security will verify who you are before allowing flight training. Hopefully the flight school you are dealing with are well versed in the process.

Welcome to aviation.
 
Marion said:
Good evening all!

I am so happy I found this forum which looks very interesting and helpful.

I am a French woman living in the US and yesterday I had my discovery flight for a private pilot license and I totally enjoyed it. Now I am just thinking about going back there again.

I feel comfortable that I will pass the several exams but there is one thing that I am concerned about:
As said above, I am French and I have an accent when speaking and sometimes I do not understand every word when somebody speaks to me in English.

So I would be very glad to read any testimony either from a foreigner who went through this or somebody who has worked with a foreigner who is not perfectly fluent in English.
Did you encounter any communication problems when in the plane?
I am afraid that it could be a problem and I could make something stupid because I did not understand well what I was told in the headsets.

Thank you very much for your help.
Click to expand...
Welcome to our "Corner of Chaos" on the internet!!!!

As far as "FAA Speak" layered on top of English as Second Language, you'll do fine. Like learning English, it just takes practice.

A good reference book for FAA Standard Phraseology is Bob Gardner's "Say Again Please..." book (click link to read about it)

Also, most of the different phrases are used in particular phases of the flight. So with practice, you get very used to anticipating and understanding what is said (or to be said) depending on where you are and what you're doing.

And don't be worried about the accent.... you should hear some of the Chinese kids that train out of my home airport. At least French is from the same language family as English. I give my local tower gang mad respect on being able to understand the halting English as the young student thinks in Mandarin, mentally converts to English, and say the right FAA words to obtain the service or information he desires. Most of the time, those kids do just fine... but you can really hear the struggle when they are tired or under stress.

You'll do juuuuust fine.



If you want, let us know where you are located and you might find a PoA'er who would be willing to be a mentor.
 
Marion said:
Did you encounter any communication problems when in the plane?
Click to expand...
Often, as a student, I would have the correct thing to say allllll lined up and rehearsed in my head.

But then I would push the "push to talk" switch and what would come out is "uuuuuuhhhhhhhh". So even us American's experience communication challenges as student pilots.

I am afraid that it could be a problem and I could make something stupid because I did not understand well what I was told in the headsets.
Click to expand...
Speaking of "student pilot", if you get someone talking too fast or using words you don't understand, just remind them "Cessna 123AB is a student pilot. Can you say again?", and the controller on the other end will gladly slowdown and use words easy to understand.

I don't think I have encountered any controllers who weren't willing to accommodate and provide additional help when they were told "Student Pilot"
 
Might be helpful to listen to ATClive. Can download for or go on their website and listen away. Helps you pick up the lingo and speed faster. Plus can listen to overseas frequencies. English is the primary ATC language. But a lot of accents out there!
 
I bought Comm1 VFR software. Pretty cool but nothing special that you can't find in YouTube
 
Marion said:
Good evening all!

I am so happy I found this forum which looks very interesting and helpful.

I am a French woman living in the US and yesterday I had my discovery flight for a private pilot license and I totally enjoyed it. Now I am just thinking about going back there again.

I feel comfortable that I will pass the several exams but there is one thing that I am concerned about:
As said above, I am French and I have an accent when speaking and sometimes I do not understand every word when somebody speaks to me in English.

So I would be very glad to read any testimony either from a foreigner who went through this or somebody who has worked with a foreigner who is not perfectly fluent in English.
Did you encounter any communication problems when in the plane?
I am afraid that it could be a problem and I could make something stupid because I did not understand well what I was told in the headsets.

Thank you very much for your help.
Click to expand...

I learned English as a first language. Then I became an engineer. Everybody knows PE stands for Poor English. Allow me access to a push-to-talk and I am now irrefutable vocal proof of that. :p

You won't have any problems. A little exposure to the ATC radio environment and you'll find all those tower controllers also have an "accent". Don't believe me? Watch this story below. ;)

You will want to check with the flight school as I believe the FAA has some security vetting procedures for non-nationals wanting to take flight training. Not sure of current status of that. But shouldn't be a problem for you I wouldn't imagine.

Finally, if you feel homesick go flying in Quebec, Canada. ATC there will be happy to speak with you in French. Although it will be Quebecois, not continental European French. :)

Good flying! Enjoy!!

 
Marion said:
Good evening all!

I am so happy I found this forum which looks very interesting and helpful.

I am a French woman living in the US and yesterday I had my discovery flight for a private pilot license and I totally enjoyed it. Now I am just thinking about going back there again.

I feel comfortable that I will pass the several exams but there is one thing that I am concerned about:
As said above, I am French and I have an accent when speaking and sometimes I do not understand every word when somebody speaks to me in English.

So I would be very glad to read any testimony either from a foreigner who went through this or somebody who has worked with a foreigner who is not perfectly fluent in English.
Did you encounter any communication problems when in the plane?
I am afraid that it could be a problem and I could make something stupid because I did not understand well what I was told in the headsets.

Thank you very much for your help.
Click to expand...

I am a instructor who has trained several bilingual students. It will be important for you and your instructor to work together to assure you understand what has been communicated. Any time an explanation seems vague you need to ask questions. Your instructor should also have you explain concepts to him to evaluate your understanding.

Your largest obstacle will be communicating with air traffic control. The controllers speak quickly and the vocabulary is strange to American students.
 
What will help with ATC is to identify yourself as a Student Pilot. When I did so, they always spoke slower to me a d made sure I understood them if there was doubt. I missed this a lot my first few flights after finishing up.
 
Welcome you’ll be fine,god luck with your training.
 
As others have said the communications between aircraft and ATC are standardized for the most part. What I'll add is even for native English speakers like myself there is still a lot to learn with communications. I have in the past taken up non-pilot passengers who are also native English speakers and they told me they couldn't understand what ATC was saying to us but I understood it clearly.

You'll learn the things they usually say and it shouldn't be hard to pick up. If you do miss it we have phrasing for that "say again?".
 
Welcome Marion. While planning my trip as Dutchie to the US to fly in April, I did watch a lot of videos on youtube. There are a lot of French foreigners going on 'flying holiday' just like Belgians, they have a pretty strong accent but they didn't seem to had any problem with communicating nor receiving their (Foreign based) license.

What do you think about those Japanese and Chinese airline pilots arriving in the US.. ;-)?
 
Hello and welcome!

You seem to have a very good grasp of english in writing for sure.
I just would bring up one possible point. I'm an american that moved to Norway many years ago. I speak, read and write norwegian (I only started learning it when I got here), but my ground school was all in norwegian. Problem is it is also very "technical" norwegian, in physics, aviation terminology, and worst of all... "legalize" (lawyer, law terminology).

So in my case I got the FAA versions of student handbook etc. and would read both my norwegian one, then the english one. Or would look up a section if the norwegian words were difficult, to see what they "really" meant. In some cases, finding out the english word for a thing didn't help as I had not heard IT before or was unsure of the meaning. But it was easier for me to look up the word online, in english, understand it, then learn the norwegian word that meant the same thing.

This might not come in to play for you... I don't know. But if I were you, I would order a couple of "student pilot" books in French just to have in case you need to compare. As for laws and airspaces, it can be different, but flight principles, navigation, etc. are the same. Also since it is your native language, I found it helped in my case to read sections in english, then go to my actual norwegian ground school book and read that.

Good luck to you!!
 
This thread reminds me of my flight a couple weeks back when the controller said “N651ED hadeyu”. I looked at my wife (not a pilot but I was desperate to understand) and she shrugged her shoulders. I asked him to repeat himself... “N651ED hadeyu” (just louder). Again, WTF are you saying? (Paraphrased of course). After 3 times of asking him to repeat it he finally slows down and says.... “N651ED HOW.. DO... YOU... READ”

I’m sorry man. But that is 4 words! And I’m from Arkansas. We are pros at combining words and slurring speech.

Welcome OP! You’ll do fine. Regardless of your background you’ll occasionally run across controllers that are hard to understand. Be persistent and you’ll get it :)
 
@Marion

Vous ferez bien. Ma femme est française. Après quelques heures de vol avec moi, elle peut maintenant suivre la plupart des instructions de l’ATC.
(Sorry for the grammar, I had to use Google to finish the translation)

Tim
 
arkvet said:
. After 3 times of asking him to repeat it he finally slows down and says.... “N651ED HOW.. DO... YOU... READ”
Click to expand...
Seems the controller had already answered his own question by that point.
 
Marion said:
Good evening all!

I am so happy I found this forum which looks very interesting and helpful.

I am a French woman living in the US and yesterday I had my discovery flight for a private pilot license and I totally enjoyed it. Now I am just thinking about going back there again.

I feel comfortable that I will pass the several exams but there is one thing that I am concerned about:
As said above, I am French and I have an accent when speaking and sometimes I do not understand every word when somebody speaks to me in English.

So I would be very glad to read any testimony either from a foreigner who went through this or somebody who has worked with a foreigner who is not perfectly fluent in English.
Did you encounter any communication problems when in the plane?
I am afraid that it could be a problem and I could make something stupid because I did not understand well what I was told in the headsets.

Thank you very much for your help.
Click to expand...
 
Marion said:
Good evening all!

I am so happy I found this forum which looks very interesting and helpful.

I am a French woman living in the US and yesterday I had my discovery flight for a private pilot license and I totally enjoyed it. Now I am just thinking about going back there again.

I feel comfortable that I will pass the several exams but there is one thing that I am concerned about:
As said above, I am French and I have an accent when speaking and sometimes I do not understand every word when somebody speaks to me in English.

So I would be very glad to read any testimony either from a foreigner who went through this or somebody who has worked with a foreigner who is not perfectly fluent in English.
Did you encounter any communication problems when in the plane?
I am afraid that it could be a problem and I could make something stupid because I did not understand well what I was told in the headsets.

Thank you very much for your help.
Click to expand...

You'll do fine. You've been living here and seem to be communicating just fine. Not understanding 'every' word said in conversation is not a problem. You will learn a new language. Let's call it Controllereese. Yes, it's based on English. Don't worry about misunderstanding and doing something wrong. The important stuff you have to say back to the controller to verify that you heard it right. I was a Controller for 30 years and have communicated with Foriegn pilots from just about everywhere. The accents can be frustrating sometimes and you will hear the frustration sometimes. DO NOT take it personally and let it bother you.
 
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There is no such thing as "standard" or "proper" phraseology on the part of the pilot. Controllers must use the phraseology in the ATC handbook but the Aeronauticl Information Manual tells pilots "Since concise phraseology may not always be adequate, use whatever words are necessary to get your message across." In other words, it is impossible for you to use "wrong" phraseology. There is commonly accepted phraseology, and that is what you will pick up with experience. As others have noted, just ask for repeats as necessary.

Bob Gardner
 
Good morning and thank you guys so much for your quick answers, stories, videos, links etc

Everything you wrote is reassuring and as suggested @benyflyguy , I will try to listen to ATClive on a regular basis to get used to the terms, even before starting classes.

I will start taking flying lessons probably in May-June when work will be less busy. So I will update my progress on this forum, I can’t wait!

Thanks @AggieMike88 for the book advise, I will buy it.

BTW, I am in Mississippi.

Good day!
 
Mississippi, Good luck understanding some of the locals. I stopped at M43 - Prentiss, MS - once for fuel. I had a 'conversation' with one of the guys at the FBO and I did not understand a single word he said. I responded based on what I thought he might be saying and just nodded when he replied. I literally, and with no exaggeration, did not understand a single syllable he 'spoke.'
 
Oh yeah, the accent here is very strong in some places. That’s also why I was concerned in the first place.
 
Marion said:
Oh yeah, the accent here is very strong in some places. That’s also why I was concerned in the first place.
Click to expand...

That's a local thing, same thing happens in parts of Louisiana. I have flown my plane all over the US, and I have never had a controller that I couldn't understand due to an accent. If you can watch the news or most television shows and understand them, you won't have an issue understanding 99% of radio calls from other pilots or any controllers. Some controllers you may need to ask them to slow down, as others have mentioned.
 
Half Fast said:
Rod Machado might be a big help. Scroll to 0:36:50...

Click to expand...
Ah ah I had a really good laugh at this Japanese student story, hope I will never get into this kind of situation, even if it is an epic moment for everybody
 
Marion said:
Oh yeah, the accent here is very strong in some places. That’s also why I was concerned in the first place.
Click to expand...

Hey, I worked with a female engineer that was born in Boston, grew up in Florida, went to school in New York and started working in west Texas. After all that her accent was barely discernible as English. :D

Go fly! You'll never look back...
 
It will certainly be an asset that most (not all) controllers are male, and the sound of a feminine French voice will ensure they want to speak with you....

Context will help with most phrases and sentences, but you may have trouble with things like tail numbers and airport designators. Have you learned the standard NATO phonetic alphabet (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta,...) yet? If not, start working on it and make sure you can pronounce each word very clearly.
 
The website that streams Air Traffic Control frequencies from different airports all over the country: https://www.liveatc.net/.
Find a small airport on this site (maybe even yours, if it has a tower?) and listen to the chatter of the pilots and controllers talking to each other. It *will* sound like complete nonsense, but that is totally normal at first, for everyone!!
You'll notice (after a while, and with some practice) that a lot of the same things, the same words, get said over and over again.
 
LongRoadBob said:
Also since it is your native language, I found it helped in my case to read sections in english, then go to my actual norwegian ground school book and read that.
Click to expand...

Interesting idea, although I found it totally opposite in my case.

I am Hungarian who completed the Cambridge University English proficiency class during my 3 years in England, so without much pride, I thought my English was pretty good when I came to the US.

When I started training, all radio chatter seemed totally foreign to me. It took a while to get used to it and being able to communicate on the radio. It’s like a brand-new language.

Jump forward, I have my PPL, I fly a lot and during a visit to Hungary I thought it would be great to fly a little around my hometown. Not having a local license, I couldn’t rent a plane so I went up with a CFI. For the life of me I could not say a word in Hungarian on the radio. I could understand everything they said but the phraseology was new and very different than what I was familiar with. It was so weird, I tried to speak my native language but I didn’t know what to say, so I kept communicating in English, which they understood perfectly.

In addition, I got a hold of a copy of the text book that all Hungarian students use for their PPL. Oh dear… total nightmare. I flipped thru the pages but there were so many subjects that I could not understand even though it was in my native language. If I ever wanted a HU PPL, I would need to spend months on learning the vocabulary.

Both of my local airports are accessible on LiveATC and it helped me a lot to listen to the familiar voices. You can also watch YT videos of ATC communications that are subtitled. So if you miss a word you can read what was said.

Also, Bob's book is a must read!

Welcome to POA!
 
Even as a native speaker, ATC is initially overwhelming and seems incomprehensible. (At least it did to me and to those whom I queried as students). It is generally quite scripted and after you get used to it, not hard at all. Is it worse for non-native speakers? Probably some but if your english comprehension is good, you should be fine. It will seem incomprehensible at first, regardless.
 
It will be simplified somewhat because you will be flying under visual flight rules. Much of what sounds like gibberish on Live ATC are instructions for those on instrument flight. VFR instructions are more straightforward, and except when flying in a towered airport's airspace, you don't even have to be talking with ATC at all.
 
Here's an old war story from the eighties. I was a WSO flying with my flight Commander in the left seat. Al was from Arkansas and had an accent we Yankees could hardly understand much less any foreigner. We were flying a low level in France and it came time to climb and get service back to the UK. Al's accented English was so difficult to understand that anyone in his flight would automatically log a comm jamming training event when he was flight lead and talking on the radio. Here we were in France trying to get IFR service from a French controller with Al doing the talking. The controller got so frustrated talking English to this Good ole boy that he finally shouted in his microphone "squawk emer', squawk emer'! " Which of course, Al had no idea what the controller was shouting since it was in a French accent. I set 7700 in the transponder and told Al I would handle the radios til we got handed off to London Mil Atc. Good times.
 
tlglenn said:
I've never had an issue understanding American or Mexican ATC. Canadian, however, was difficult.
Click to expand...

Probably was french Canadian. The normal ones sound just like ours do.
 
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