ATC Support Story

My flying club bought a bunch of pizzas for ATC a few days ago. Others are picking up and doing that too.
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I would take food, usually pizza and ice cream, to the flight service guys in Kotzebue. Usually after they got me on the runway during some really bad weather.

One guy liked vanilla ice cream and grape jelly....
 
Some controller brought a stack of pamphlets about ending the shut down to my wifes work yesterday. Kind of random as her job has nothing to do with aviation. She is bringing me one home to look at. Cool to see what people are doing to help out
 
Radar Contact said:
It is amazing that you can be forced to work (to include 6 days a week with mandatory OT) and not be paid. If you're not going to pay me at least let me not come in so I can go flight instruct, shovel driveways or something on the side. :)
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I understand a bad situation if you are a controller, but is it literally “forced to”? Can you quit the job if you want to?

I am also curious — is it disclosed in the contract before one starts that this can happen? Or is this some kind of trick in the arrangements with the FAA?
 
Radar Contact said:
Thanks for the offer but I'm okay for now. If this keeps on going on for a long time, I'll be taking you up on that!

It is amazing that you can be forced to work (to include 6 days a week with mandatory OT) and not be paid. If you're not going to pay me at least let me not come in so I can go flight instruct, shovel driveways or something on the side. :)
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My brother was saying, when his back pay hits, it’s gonna be big. Overtime and 3 holidays so far. He said his savings will last a year, so he’s not too worried.
 
Velocity173 said:
My brother was saying, when his back pay hits, it’s gonna be big. Overtime and 3 holidays so far. He said his savings will last a year, so he’s not too worried.
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That’s the funny thing about all of the pizza drives and other help bring offered. Unless they are fairly new hires, most of them probably have sufficient savings based on their salary to last several months.
 
Radar Contact said:
Thanks for the offer but I'm okay for now. If this keeps on going on for a long time, I'll be taking you up on that!

It is amazing that you can be forced to work (to include 6 days a week with mandatory OT) and not be paid. If you're not going to pay me at least let me not come in so I can go flight instruct, shovel driveways or something on the side. :)
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Well, your pay is deferred, not deleted. In any case, folks who aren't working at all will be paid their full $$, which I disagree with. Only pay those who worked.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
I understand a bad situation if you are a controller, but is it literally “forced to”? Can you quit the job if you want to?

I am also curious — is it disclosed in the contract before one starts that this can happen? Or is this some kind of trick in the arrangements with the FAA?
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He is not under the scope of the UCMJ, so yes he can quit his ATC job if he wishes to do so. Nobody is gonna do that though, not as his pay scale. They know their income potential outside their current position is peanuts by comparison, so most will hunker down and wait out the re-opening, as most believe it will never exceed one monthly pay cycle. Don't shoot the messenger.

The Coast Guard uniformed members are the only ones in this partial shutdown who are not legally able to vacate their jobs. Doing so would be considered desertion punishable by the UCMJ. I went through this discussion during 2013 sequestration, but it didn't last long enough to affect the pay cycle.

The people who get hurt the most are the junior enlisted, who live at or below the cost of living line as a function of their basic pay. Similar dynamics exist for the majority of sub-GS10 and most WG scale civilian workers. Inflation is a real thing, and most W-2 workers don't make squat in America, for a rich Country.
 
Are the contract towers affected by this or is the contract already paid for the year?

Oh and IBTL!
 
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I’m one of the lucky ones that’s deemed non-essential in my office due to not being fully qualified yet. So I’m able to collect unemployment unlike my colleagues. I think it’s unfair to be forcing a large majority of federal employees to work to smooth the shutdown for the public.

At any rate if this goes much longer then we’ll start seeing issues as essential employees are no longer able to make ends meet. A month without pay is very hard on a large swath of our county.
 
ARFlyer said:
I’m one of the lucky ones that’s deemed non-essential in my office due to not being fully qualified yet. So I’m able to collect unemployment unlike my colleagues. I think it’s unfair to be forcing a large majority of federal employees to work to smooth the shutdown for the public.

At any rate if this goes much longer then we’ll start seeing issues as essential employees are no longer able to make ends meet. A month without pay is very hard on a large swath of our county.
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Essential employees who work but don’t get paid during the shutdown can’t draw unemployment benefits because the law requires them to receive back pay once the shutdown is over. I’m surprised that now since everyone is going to receive back pay that the labor department hasn’t made a determination that no one can get unemployment.

I’m surprised though that you haven’t been recalled. Many offices have recalled all of the ASIs but not the ASTs or ASAs. But if you don’t have your 110A yet or don’t have any assigned certificates, it would be hard for your manager to justify you as essential.

It’s one big ugly mess born out of ignorance.

Best of luck to you.
 
ARFlyer said:
I’m one of the lucky ones that’s deemed non-essential in my office due to not being fully qualified yet. So I’m able to collect unemployment unlike my colleagues. I think it’s unfair to be forcing a large majority of federal employees to work to smooth the shutdown for the public.

At any rate if this goes much longer then we’ll start seeing issues as essential employees are no longer able to make ends meet. A month without pay is very hard on a large swath of our county.
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If back pay is done, how does the unemployment pay work? Do you have to pay it back? Not being belligerent, just wondering.
 
Radar Contact said:
I've avoided pretty much all of these shutdown/ATC threads as I knew better than stepping into this. A couple years ago @NealRomeoGolf , whom I only knew from a few post here, needed to swing over to pick up his plane. Rather than have someone drive him several hours around the state, I offered to help a fellow pilot fly up to grab his plane. He simply made a nice gesture here and I stupidly walked into this. I should have just PM'ed him back and stayed out of this. That said, here we go.



I stand corrected, I am not forced in the sense that I can't quit. Sure, I could quit. Quit a job that I've trained/worked 18 years at. If I tell them sorry, I can't come to work and not get paid...I'm going to go work at ------------ till this is over so I can provide for my family, they will fire me on the spot. It's not like being an engineer/pilot/attorney/etc...I can't go anywhere else and do what I do.

So yes, in my opinion I'm being forced to work without pay. I understand you may not see it that way and I'm okay with that.
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To those that say, "pfff controllers are well paid, if they can't go 6 months without a pay check then that's on them". I say, that is incredibly dismissive of what life throws at people. Yes, please no one shed a tear for me, I'm okay for a while. However, some of my fellow co-workers have had life rear its ugly head. How about the ones who have recently gone through divorces not of their faults that cleaned them out or the ones who spouse has cancer and hasn't been able to work for a long time or the one who's kid has a serious illness that insurance doesn't cover much of their treatments? There are many more stories that I'm sure will be lost on the naysayers that will figure out how this is ultimately their faults.

I may be the silly one in the room...the notion of thinking that I deserve to be paid as agreed (bi-weekly) for the work that I provide...:dunno:
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Yep, not getting paid, shouldn't have to work. But eventually you will be paid, doesn't make it ok though and there should be an adjustment (upward) when the back pay finally comes in, if I'm late paying taxes I have to pay a penalty.

Anyway, I want thank all controllers for going in and not letting it affect your work. I'm training for my IR and have been talking to a lot of controllers lately while flying and they all have been the stellar examples of professionalism even through what has to be worrisome and stressful times for them.
 
Radar Contact said:
I may be the silly one in the room...the notion of thinking that I deserve to be paid as agreed (bi-weekly) for the work that I provide...:dunno:
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You will be paid, and you know that. The challenge is cash flow.

In the grand scheme of things, Im going to say this falls into the category of we should should know better.

I dealt with more than a couple of these as an active duty military officer in my career. With a non-working spouse and two kids. While deployed to a combat zone at times.

From day 1, I’ve known the political winds can impact when and how I’m paid and whether or not I would even be employed.

Having said that, life happens. I’m sure everyone that life happened to was fiscally responsible, had no debt, and kept 3-6 months income replacement in the bank.

Like me, you will get a fat check once the appropriations are approved.

It sucks. Been there, done that. But to say we never could expect this to happen, and to never expect it to happen, and to not plan for it to happen, that’s foolish.
 
texasag93 said:
If back pay is done, how does the unemployment pay work? Do you have to pay it back? Not being belligerent, just wondering.
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Yep! I figure I’ll be jumping through hoops but I’ll cross that bridge when it’s time.

I’m mainly doing UI to extend my safety net. My savings will last another month or so. However, I’d rather keep that intact as much as possible in case of any unforeseen emergency or this lasts for a long time.
 
TCABM said:
You will be paid, and you know that. The challenge is cash flow.

In the grand scheme of things, Im going to say this falls into the category of we should should know better.

I dealt with more than a couple of these as an active duty military officer in my career. With a non-working spouse and two kids. While deployed to a combat zone at times.

From day 1, I’ve known the political winds can impact when and how I’m paid and whether or not I would even be employed.

Having said that, life happens. I’m sure everyone that life happened to was fiscally responsible, had no debt, and kept 3-6 months income replacement in the bank.

Like me, you will get a fat check once the appropriations are approved.

It sucks. Been there, done that. But to say we never could expect this to happen, and to never expect it to happen, and to not plan for it to happen, that’s foolish.
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A good friend of mine works for the FAA as a safety inspector. He was on furlough for three weeks before finally being deemed essential and getting recalled last week. But until Congress passed the back pay bill, he was uncertain if he would get paid for the time he was off. Back pay for the time after he was recalled was certain. Still three weeks on the beach without pay and no certainty of pay for no fault of his own was nerve racking and a slap in the face. Fortunately he has personal savings that will allow him to go several months without pay so he will not have trouble making ends meet. However he had other plans for that money and would have been ****ed if he had been forced to use it and not have it replenished quickly. Now he is back doing the job he enjoys and knows that eventually he will receive his pay and replenish his savings. He is still quite a bit peeved at the folks that he holds responsible for the whole situation. I think any of us would be if we were in his situation.
 
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