Class E extended to ground airports

Mohamed Ahmed

Mohamed Ahmed

Pre-Flight
Joined
Feb 18, 2018
Messages
51
Display Name
Display name:
MAH
Hi,

I flew today to KSSI, a class E controlled airspace. I was using flight following with Jacksonville center. I was under the impression that as this is a controlled airspace airport with no tower, the center is going to clear my landing to one of the runway as we do with other controlled airspace’s.

What happened was that as soon as field was insight, I was instructed to squawk VFR, change frequency to CTAF, and terminate radar service. Simply as if I was landing in class G airfield. Same thing on takeoff.

My question is why bothering making class E at all, change it to G. I know I’m missing something other than weather minimums for VFR , and I hope someone can through some light on it...


Thank you
Mohamed
 
It's to protect IFR aircraft on instrument approaches from people operating at 699AGL and clear of clouds in the same space.

Class E vs Class G changes the VFR cloud clearance requirements. It is that simple.
 
ja_user said:
It's to protect IFR aircraft on instrument approaches from people operating at 699AGL and clear of clouds in the same space.

Class E vs Class G changes the VFR cloud clearance requirements. It is that simple.
Click to expand...

Not really. If that were the only reason, then why are there so many airports with instrument approaches where the E is only 700 and above?

The history behind this sort of thing can be interesting... And many of the airports that have E-space to the ground had it for a reason at some point, the reason went away but the airspace never changed. Airspace changes happen slower than continental drift...

One nearby (to me) example is KLNR. It has E-space to the ground because there used to be a flight service station on the field. That FSS went away in the mid-80s with the switch to "Automated" flight service stations.

Also, most airports that have airline service will get E-space to the ground. Yes, there are untowered airports with airline service! Examples are KRHI (Rhinelander, WI) and KBFF (Scottsbluff, NE).

Hope that helps, @Mohamed Ahmed - I wouldn't be too concerned with why it's there, as many of them are simply legacy FSS/airline airports and nobody ever bothered changing the airspace... Or they still get their one airline flight a day and it's there to ensure that nobody's going to be flying their ultralights and drones around and having mid-airs with that Beech 1900.
 
Adding to Flyingcheesehead.

Operationally Class E at the surface means you may not land, takeoff or enter the pattern unless the reported ground visibility is 3 SM and the ceiling is 1000 ft agl. It also means you may not enter the Class E unless you have 3-152s.

Due to aircraft carrying persons or cargo for hire operations at theses airports, the FAA has placed more restrictions on VFR aircraft.

The airspace surrounding the airport is controlled to the surface, but the airport surface is not controlled.
 
ja_user said:
Class E vs Class G changes the VFR cloud clearance requirements. It is that simple.
Click to expand...
And visibility, and in the case of the "airspace formerly known as a control zone" (Surface area of controlled airspace designated for an airport), it adds a minimum reported ceiling requirement, and the availability of Special VFR clearances.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Not really. If that were the only reason, then why are there so many airports with instrument approaches where the E is only 700 and above?

The history behind this sort of thing can be interesting... And many of the airports that have E-space to the ground had it for a reason at some point, the reason went away but the airspace never changed. Airspace changes happen slower than continental drift...
Click to expand...
When the government is functioning, I see changes at least a few times a week. Here is a federal register search with 258 hits for last year. There are probably duplicates - the Administrative notice and comment process applies to all regulations - and some which might actually apply to somethings else, but I hear the continental drift is slower than that :D

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...n_date][year]=2018&conditions[term]="Class+e"
 
midlifeflyer said:
When the government is functioning, I see changes at least a few times a week. Here is a federal register search with 258 hits for last year. There are probably duplicates - the Administrative notice and comment process applies to all regulations - and some which might actually apply to somethings else, but I hear the continental drift is slower than that :D

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/search?conditions[agencies][]=federal-aviation-administration&conditions[publication_date][year]=2018&conditions[term]="Class+e"
Click to expand...

Maybe for fun we could have the entire board write objections to a reclassification to E at some obscure airport.
 
Class E to the surface usually indicates there is a precision approach to the airport. With just a non precision approach the E is only lowered to 700 AGL. The airport itself is still uncontrolled. The reason for the lowering of Class E to 700 feet or to the surface is to protect IFR aircraft on the approach from non participating aircraft when conditions are less than VFR.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Class E to the surface usually indicates there is a precision approach to the airport. With just a non precision approach the E is only lowered to 700 AGL. The airport itself is still uncontrolled. The reason for the lowering of Class E to 700 feet or to the surface is to protect IFR aircraft on the approach from non participating aircraft when conditions are less than VFR.
Click to expand...

But there are many class G airfields with ILS on at least one of its runways. KWDR (winder) close to where I live I think is a good example.


Thank you
Mohamed
 
There are requirements to get class E to the surface, I don't have the full list handy.

But it does include local weather, an approach, being able to contact FSS or ATC from the surface, and most importantly someone has to request it.
 
Trying to simple this up a little, Class E is only in effect when the weather in the Class E area is below VFR minimums. Class E extends either from the surface, 700AGL, or 1500AGL, or 14,500 up to but not including 18000MSL.

So for a VFR only pilot (or IFR pilot operating under VFR) that is flying to an airport with a Class E airspace and listens to the AWOS and hears, "sky condition clear, Visibility 2 miles...". That means the Class E is in effect and a clearance is needed before entering the airspace. Either a IFR clearance or a Special VFR issued by the controlling ATC. If the weather is above minimums, say ceiling unlimited and better than 10 miles visibility, there are no entry requirements, not even a radio is required.

Class E to the ground does not necessarily mean there is a precision approach. I have been to several non-towered airports with a Class E area to the ground that does not have a precision approach.

If doing an approach (special or IFR) to an airport with the Class E in effect, do not cancel clearance until on the ground. I have heard a few times on the radio where someone breaks out and has the runway in sight and wanting to free up the airspace, so they cancel with approach, or FSS. Now that pilot is operating in controlled airspace without a clearance. Cancel on the ground, or below the floor of the controlling Class E airspace.

For a VFR pilot, the main difference between Class E and G airspace is cloud clearance and visibility minimums. For IFR traffic, any flight operating under instrument flight rules must be on an active IFR clearance in any controlled airspace, including Class E. And Class E airspace is only in effect when the weather is below VFR minimums.

Ok, clear as mud....
 
Zeldman said:
Trying to simple this up a little, Class E is only in effect when the weather in the Class E area is below VFR minimums....Class E airspace is only in effect when the weather is below VFR minimums.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure its always Class E, regardless of the actual weather conditions. It just doesn't make a difference whether the weather is VFR or IFR. I've never seen any reference to not being Class E during VFR.

I think the confusion is around the idea of Class E being controlled airspace, which is being confused with a controlled, towered airport. A Class E airport is still an un-towered and essentially uncontrolled airport. The approach or center controller responsible for the Class E will not ever clear you to land or takeoff from the runway. They are only responsible for the airspace itself, even if it goes to the ground.

The only difference with a Class E and Class G airspace airport is the weather minimums, and the protection given to IFR aircraft. Your VFR pattern and radio work is the same.
 
Zeldman said:
Trying to simple this up a little, Class E is only in effect when the weather in the Class E area is below VFR minimums. Class E extends either from the surface, 700AGL, or 1500AGL, or 14,500 up to but not including 18000MSL.

So for a VFR only pilot (or IFR pilot operating under VFR) that is flying to an airport with a Class E airspace and listens to the AWOS and hears, "sky condition clear, Visibility 2 miles...". That means the Class E is in effect and a clearance is needed before entering the airspace. Either a IFR clearance or a Special VFR issued by the controlling ATC. If the weather is above minimums, say ceiling unlimited and better than 10 miles visibility, there are no entry requirements, not even a radio is required.
Click to expand...

Thank you @Zeldman. I think now I understand the “logic” behind class E extending to the ground...


Thank you
Mohamed
 
When I was studying for my private pilot knowledge test, I made flash cards for airspace requirements. The words “class E airspace at the surface designated for an airport” always annoyed me, enough that I remembered the rule when I was stopped at such a place with a new plane, a dead radio, and a very long wait for the ceiling to be reported high enough that I could depart VFR. (Special VFR would have finally come in handy for me, if only the radio weren’t broken.)
 
flyingron said:
And visibility, and in the case of the "airspace formerly known as a control zone" (Surface area of controlled airspace designated for an airport), it adds a minimum reported ceiling requirement, and the availability of Special VFR clearances.
Click to expand...

Special VFR availability... Excellent point.
 
Clare E Surface Areas surrounding airports are typically (not always) non towered airfields with IFR approaches AND some form of commercial operations or other activity that warrants the extra airspace protection. It protects the airspace down to the surface with E weather and VFR cloud separations vs someone being just "clear of clouds" in G when you pop out. If you do some digging, you will typically find that the field has or had some form of charter or commercial operations beyond everyday GA traffic based there.

This became much more evident why when I stated flying Paramotors under part 103. We are legal in G and E but need authorization for E Surface Area. Last thing you want is one of us yahoos skimming the clouds next to the airport when breaking out.

For the GA pilot...it does not mean a thing other than cloud clearances vs going into any other uncontrolled fields.

Zeldman said:
Trying to simple this up a little, Class E is only in effect when the weather in the Class E area is below VFR minimums.
Click to expand...

Not quite, the Class E surface area Is ALWAYS in effect unless posted otherwise with effective hours but the conditions you listed above are the only time it affects VFR operations, but it is still Class E airspace. I still can't fly my Paramotor in Class E Surface Area without prior authorization just cuz the weather is nice.
 
Last edited:
Mohamed Ahmed said:
I was using flight following with Jacksonville center. I was under the impression that as this is a controlled airspace airport with no tower, the center is going to clear my landing to one of the runway as we do with other controlled airspace’s.
Click to expand...
To look at it from another perspective, Center or Approach control only the air, not runways or taxiways.
A non-towered field (doesn't have "CT" on the sectional) has no tower controlling traffic on the rwy, ground or in the pattern. Another big indication is the inverse C on the chart next to the field frequency, short for CTAF.

Are you coming from Vatsim by any chance? That environment can lead to some erroneous understanding sometime where center or approach controllers control non-towered fields.

Btw, I hope you had the awesome pulled-pork sandwich at KSSI!!!
 
As someone previously stated, what is now Class E surface area used to be called "Control Zones".

The criteria for a Control Zone was an official weather observer, and that weather was normally disseminated through Flight Service. If you look at the history of airports with “part time” Class E surface areas, you’d see a part-time weather observer of some sort.

While that often was at airports with commercial ops and precision approaches, it was also a regular occurrence at airports without either one.

It was also not uncommon to have the opposite...an airport with precision approaches and/or air carrier ops (part 135) and no weather reporting. A few Part 135 operators had their own certified weather observers for their home airport, but since their weather observations weren’t disseminated via Flight Service, there was no Control Zone/Class E surface area.
 
Shawn said:
Clare E Surface Areas surrounding airports are typically (not always) non towered airfields with IFR approaches AND some form of commercial operations
Click to expand...

Activity really doesn't matter so much as having local weather observation (in addition to a published approach). In the past that meant that there had to be either a tower or some other weather observer (typically, an airline employee when there was air carrier service). These days an AWOS suffices and so you'll see surface areas of controlled airspace at airports that don't have any commercial operators.

Oops, I see MauleSkinner beat me to this point.
 
kkoran said:
Chapter 18 explains the requirements for establishing Class E airspace.
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/7400.2L_Bsc_w_Chgs_1-3_dtd_9-13-18.pdf
Click to expand...

Some of it is a bit vague. 18 doesn't really list the requirements itself, it merely points to 17-1-3, 17-2-9, and 17-2-10.

The relevant part of 17-1-3 is this:

c. Must be designated to accommodate instrument procedures (planned, published, special, arrival, and departure) if such action is justified and/or in the public interest. The following factors should be considered:

1. Type of procedure, including decision height or minimum descent altitude.

2. The actual use to be made of the procedure, including whether a certificated air carrier or an air taxi/commuter operator providing service to the general public uses it.

NOTE−

For special instrument procedures, consideration should be given to availability to other users.

3. The operational and economic advantage offered by the procedure, including the importance and interest to the commerce and welfare of the community.

4. Any other factors considered appropriate.
Click to expand...

So again, pretty vague.

17-2-9 says that ATC communications must be possible down to the runway surface at the primary airport that the airspace is designated for. For example, KLNR is served by the Lone Rock RCAG for Chicago Center.

17-2-10 says that weather observations must be made while the airspace is effective, either by a trained observer or an automated system, and shared with the controlling ATC facility via FSS or a few other means.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Some of it is a bit vague. 18 doesn't really list the requirements itself, it merely points to 17-1-3, 17-2-9, and 17-2-10.

The relevant part of 17-1-3 is this:



So again, pretty vague.

17-2-9 says that ATC communications must be possible down to the runway surface at the primary airport that the airspace is designated for. For example, KLNR is served by the Lone Rock RCAG for Chicago Center.

17-2-10 says that weather observations must be made while the airspace is effective, either by a trained observer or an automated system, and shared with the controlling ATC facility via FSS or a few other means.
Click to expand...

Item of note is that 17-2-9 does not say "radio" communication.
 
Clip4 said:
Adding to Flyingcheesehead.

Operationally Class E at the surface means you may not land, takeoff or enter the pattern unless the reported ground visibility is 3 SM and the ceiling is 1000 ft agl. It also means you may not enter the Class E unless you have 3-152s.

Due to aircraft carrying persons or cargo for hire operations at theses airports, the FAA has placed more restrictions on VFR aircraft.

The airspace surrounding the airport is controlled to the surface, but the airport surface is not controlled.
Click to expand...

Special VFR can be requested from the controlling agency however...
 
Thank you all for your valuable insights and inputs... now I have better understanding for class E requirements as a pilot. It is just the weather minimums that can be a go no go to this airfield, unlike the class G which has less restricted weather minimums...


Thank you
Mohamed
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top