Newly graduated DPT wants part time work; and got it

[FORANE]

Most of us working in healthcare are familiar with the common perception that the term doctor = physician. As such, most of the non-physician practitioners who hold a doctorate degree do not refer to themselves with the title of doctor.
@wrbix is right when he says There ARE all manner of folks calling themselves Doctor these days simply based on some educational program endowing them with same. There is a reason for this. More fields are requiring the doctorate degree. Thus, more folks are seeking a doctorate degree either as a requirement or as a perceived advantage. Given that student loan debt is non-dischargable even in bankruptcy and student loans are guaranteed, lenders are willing to lend ever increasing amounts. So, more schools are offering those degrees and charging ever increasing amounts of tuition. The result is more folks are graduating with burdensome student loan debt.

Personally I believe we would serve ourselves (and the public) better if we didn't mandate doctorate level education (which is mandated by our national organization), but instead focused on increasing skill and proficiency in clinical aspects such as regional anesthesia, nerve blocks, etc.

No, that would be perfectly ethical for him to introduce himself that way. It may be a bit misleading, but it is still ethical. Nowadays more and more "allied" professions are doing that.

A physician anesthesiologist will say: "Hi, I'm Dr. Jones and I'll be your anesthesiologist today." CRNAs (Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists), nurses, not physicians, have commonly said to the patient: "Hi, I'm John and I'll be your anesthetist today." That's a perfectly true statement and the vast majority of patients will not make the distinction that a nurse versus a physician will be providing their anesthesia. Most patients will think the CRNA is just being friendly and casual by using their first name.

This has gotten even more confusing recently as CRNA programs now grant all their graduates a doctorate in nursing, so it is now perfectly acceptable for them to say: "Hi, I'm Dr. Jones and I'll be your anesthetist today." That sounds very much like what the physician anesthesiologist says. Very few patients are informed enough to understand the difference. Such is the state of our health care today. Everyone wants cheaper and the way to provide cheaper is to use "providers" with less education.

I am a CRNA. I agree with what Ken says here except few of us would say I'm Dr. so and so. My wife (also a CRNA) has a doctorate but never uses the title doctor for the reasons in this thread.

There is also a perception in the public that a physician is a better provider than a non-physician counterpart which I believe while understandable is simply not true. The general public is simply not aware that unlike pilots who have required tasks to be current, no such requirement exists in healthcare. I believe it is a correct statement that most US practicing anesthesiologists work as a team with and "supervising" CRNA's. That means they manage patients preop, postop, are present at the induction of anesthesia, perform nerve blocks, etc. We, the CRNA's typically manage the course of the anesthetic start to finish. Further, I think it is correct to say that most US anesthesiologists do not provide general anesthetics on their own daily, or have even done so in years. Would you want your pilot to have never done a flight on his own in years? I am not berating them, in fairness they typically are better than we are at the tasks they perform most often such as preop management, post op management, nerve blocks, etc.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Is a dentist a fraud?

 

[wrbix]

Agree with Forane with one exception - there are some requirements for physicians to maintain and demonstrate currency - although many are laughable in their actual utility in action. Push back by physicians on State Licensing Boards, Hospital privileging criteria, and even subspeciality board societies to dilute currency requirements are problematic.

 

[Half Fast]

People are entitled to their titles. But if I’m receiving medical care and someone introduces him/herself as “Doctor X,” that person is either a physician or a fraud.

Or you have made a foolish and unwarranted assumption.

 

[OneCharlieTango]

Or you have made a foolish and unwarranted assumption.

Are you so peevish in person?

 

[Morgan3820]

I am going to see my physician this morning for my annual physical. When I greet him it will be with ‘Hello Ron’
I do not do titles. i think that it is silly. I work as a civilian on a military base, I do not use rank in addressing active duty any more than I would expect them to address me as GS-13 such and such. Same with friends who are active duty. If we are not on first name basis then it will be ‘Sir or Mr. or Ms.’. People are people.

 

[Luigi]

Sooo..... He spent all that time in medschool, on momma and daddas retirment fund but now is like, meh.... I want to go swing a hammer? What a frigging idiot. Lemme guess... Book smart, zero common sense? Let him do what he wants I guess. You can't fix stupid as Ron White says.

DPT is an add-on to a BS degree, at Utica college, for example, it is a 16 month course, hardly an MD.

 

[Unit74]

Shows what know,,,,

 

[Half Fast]

Are you so peevish in person?

Yes.

In person, are you so quick to call someone a fraud?

 

[RJM62]

If you really want to be confused, spend some time in England. Most physicians in England have highly-specialized Bachelor's degrees, not doctorates. But they're always addressed as "Doctor." Those physicians who do obtain M.D. degrees, on the other hand, are properly addressed as Mister, Miss, etc.

No one ever accused the British of being easy to understand.

Rich

 

[weilke]

If you really want to be confused, spend some time in England. Most physicians in England have highly-specialized Bachelor's degrees, not doctorates. But they're always addressed as "Doctor." Those physicians who do obtain M.D. degrees, on the other hand, are properly addressed as Mister, Miss, etc.

No one ever accused the British of being easy to understand.

Rich

The 'Dr' vs. 'Mr' thing is more tied to nosurgical vs. surgical specialties. And even there it's disappearing.

 

[Half Fast]

If you really want to be confused, spend some time in England. Most physicians in England have highly-specialized Bachelor's degrees, not doctorates. But they're always addressed as "Doctor." Those physicians who do obtain M.D. degrees, on the other hand, are properly addressed as Mister, Miss, etc.

No one ever accused the British of being easy to understand.

Rich

It would sure help if the British would learn to speak English, wouldn’t it?

 

[Stuart Fraley]

Yes.

In person, are you so quick to call someone a fraud?

When they deliberately mislead people, yes.

 

[weilke]

I have yet to encounter a NP, CRNA or PA who is trying to pass themselves off as physician. I have seen plenty of optometrists who advertise themselves as 'Eye Dr' including surgical care. If you look in the small print, the surgical care is provided by a separate entity with the OD co-managing care.

 

[Half Fast]

When they deliberately mislead people, yes.

I see nothing misleading in a person with a doctorate using the title “doctor.” If you infer that “doctor” means “MD,” the problem is with your inference. There is nothing fraudulent about it.

 

[TCABM]

If you introduce yourself as a pilot is that misleading since most people assume a pilot flies airliners or for the military?

 

[Morgan3820]

I am going to see my physician this morning for my annual physical. When I greet him it will be with ‘Hello Ron’
I do not do titles. i think that it is silly. I work as a civilian on a military base, I do not use rank in addressing active duty any more than I would expect them to address me as GS-13 such and such. Same with friends who are active duty. If we are not on first name basis then it will be ‘Sir or Mr. or Ms.’. People are people.

Now sitting here waiting in the physician's room waiting 40 minutes so far. But that rant is currently on another thread

 

[OneCharlieTango]

I see nothing misleading in a person with a doctorate using the title “doctor.” If you infer that “doctor” means “MD,” the problem is with your inference. There is nothing fraudulent about it.

In the context of a doctor’s office? I’m new here. Are you one of those who argues for fun?

Is this typical of PoA?

 

[Half Fast]

In the context of a doctor’s office? I’m new here. Are you one of those who argues for fun?

Is this typical of PoA?

No, I'm not. Are you?

Last year when I had an eardrum repaired I had hearing tests before and after surgery. At my ENT's office, a young man came in and said "I am Dr. Smith and I'm the audiologist who will be conducting your hearing test." I did not assume he was a physician; I assumed he was an Au.D. Which he indeed was.

Similarly, if I were in my physician's office for, say, an injured leg, and someone came in and said, "Good morning. I'm your physical therapist, Dr. Jones," I would not assume he was a physician. I would expect him to be a DPT.

I suspect most physician's offices want their staff to refer to themselves this way in order to instill in patients greater confidence in the competence and training of the specialists. There is hardly anything fraudulent in this; to the contrary, it's providing truthful additional information about the qualifications of those providing treatment.

You are succumbing to a false assumption that all doctors in a medical office are physicians. That may have been true a few decades ago, but thanks to increased training and qualifications for certain specialists that's no longer the case.

In practical terms, how does this change your reaction? Will you say to the physical therapist, "Oh, so you're not an MD. I would prefer to receive therapy from someone who holds an MD rather than a DPT," even though the MD is likely less qualified in physical therapy?

 

[OneCharlieTango]

That’s not who I’m talking about. I’m talking about a PhD nurse who enters an exam room and says “I’m Dr Jones” without clarification. I’ve seen it and it’s deliberately misleading. The examples you cite are absolutely proper.

 

[RJM62]

In the context of a doctor’s office? I’m new here. Are you one of those who argues for fun?

Is this typical of PoA?

It's been rumored that Pedantism occasionally visits our little corner of the Web.

Rich

 

[weilke]

In the context of a doctor’s office? I’m new here. Are you one of those who argues for fun?

Is this typical of PoA?

Yes.

 

[Half Fast]

That’s not who I’m talking about. I’m talking about a PhD nurse who enters an exam room and says “I’m Dr Jones” without clarification. I’ve seen it and it’s deliberately misleading. The examples you cite are absolutely proper.

You mentioned context. If you'll look at the OP, the context of this thread is a newly graduated DPT.

Frankly, the crux of the matter is that a long time ago physicians made the decision to use a degree as a title rather than using a professional title. It's really the PhD holder who should be squawking since the MD, at least in the US, is not as great an academic attainment as the PhD.

One of my colleagues who holds a PhD comes from a family of physicians. He tells me they regularly rag on each other about each being called "doctor."

 

[wrbix]

I have yet to encounter a NP, CRNA or PA who is trying to pass themselves off as physician. I have seen plenty of optometrists who advertise themselves as 'Eye Dr' including surgical care. If you look in the small print, the surgical care is provided by a separate entity with the OD co-managing care.

I, unfortunately, could introduce you to several - and unfortunately the patients seen by these PAs think the physician extenders are doctors.....but then, the MD employing and supervising them is not a star either, but I digress.

 

[OneCharlieTango]

Someone told me PoA was the new Red Board, what with the pedantism and such. Apparently, it’s all that and more!

 

[JOhnH]

Someone told me PoA was the new Red Board, what with the pedantism and such. Apparently, it’s all that and more!

Is that why you are here? Because someone told you that? It must be, because 6 of your 9 posts are on this thread, mostly arguing and complaining about POA.

 

[OneCharlieTango]

Is that why you are here? Because someone told you that? It must be, because 6 of your 9 posts are on this thread, mostly arguing and complaining about POA.

Guilty, kind of. When I first heard of PoA, it was presented as a civil place for civil, intelligent people to have civil, intelligent conversation. Turns out it’s just the Internet, where people say things to each other that they’d never dream of saying in person.

 

[kayoh190]

Turns out it’s just the Internet, where people say things to each other that they’d never dream of saying in person.

Well ummm...of course it's the internet. Turn off your connection and attempt to reply to my post.

After awhile you learn who the 'special' posters are on PoA, but IMO this place has a better signal to noise ratio than most.

 

[JOhnH]

Guilty, kind of. When I first heard of PoA, it was presented as a civil place for civil, intelligent people to have civil, intelligent conversation. Turns out it’s just the Internet, where people say things to each other that they’d never dream of saying in person.

Good (honest) answer.

 

[Unit74]

Guilty, kind of. When I first heard of PoA, it was presented as a civil place for civil, intelligent people to have civil, intelligent conversation. Turns out it’s just the Internet, where people say things to each other that they’d never dream of saying in person.

100% true....mostly. I’d say the same thing, but I’d be less of a jerk about it and with less gusto. But I’d still say it. The webs has a certain amount of machismo enablement factor to it, as we see with Facebook, Twitter eat Al. More of a vocal lubricant.

 

[Timbeck2]

If people don't know the difference in the titles of "doctor" then they themselves should be educated enough to prevent them from being "misled."

 

[SkyDog58]

One evening at a bar several years ago while conversing with a lovely young lady.

She: So where do you work?
Me: I work for ##### Airlines.
She: Are you a pilot?
Me: Yes I am.
She: Cool! Wanna have sex?

With the exception of her last question, that was a pretty accurate accounting of that portion of our conversation that evening. The truth was I did work for the airline and I was a pilot. I just wasn't a pilot at the airline. Were my answers basically truthful? Yes. Was I deceptive? Yes. My answers were the truth but in the context of the conversation, my answer as to being a pilot without adding some clarification was misleading. Was it my fault that she probably assumed that I meant that I was a pilot at the airline or is it her fault for asking a vague question? Maybe she should have asked if I was a pilot for the airline or rather than merely asking if I was a pilot maybe she should have asked what I did at the airline. Instead she simply asked if I was a pilot and I replied with yes.

Context is very significant in most aspects of conversation and terminology.

If I am in the hospital and someone comes into my room and introduces himself as Dr. Jones, I will assume he is a MD.

If I am in a dentist office and someone is introduced as Dr. Smith, I will assume he is a DDS.

If I am at a lecture on astrophysics and the speaker is introduced to me as Dr. Johnson, I definitely am not going to open my mouth and say aah.

Now if I am in a social, non professional environment and someone introduces himself to me as Dr. Watt, I'd think "whatever, you pompous ass".

Situational context.

 

[Everskyward]

I've had the opposite confusion a couple times. A physician in a doctor's office or hospital comes in and introduces themselves using their first name.

 

[Half Fast]

One evening at a bar several years ago while conversing with a lovely young lady.

She: So where do you work?
Me: I work for ##### Airlines.
She: Are you a pilot?
Me: Yes I am.
She: Cool! Wanna have sex?

With the exception of her last question, that was a pretty accurate accounting of that portion of our conversation that evening. The truth was I did work for the airline and I was a pilot. I just wasn't a pilot at the airline. Were my answers basically truthful? Yes. Was I deceptive? Yes. My answers were the truth but in the context of the conversation, my answer as to being a pilot without adding some clarification was misleading. Was it my fault that she probably assumed that I meant that I was a pilot at the airline or is it her fault for asking a vague question? Maybe she should have asked if I was a pilot for the airline or rather than merely asking if I was a pilot maybe she should have asked what I did at the airline. Instead she simply asked if I was a pilot and I replied with yes.

Context is very significant in most aspects of conversation and terminology.

If I am in the hospital and someone comes into my room and introduces himself as Dr. Jones, I will assume he is a MD.

If I am in a dentist office and someone is introduced as Dr. Smith, I will assume he is a DDS.

If I am at a lecture on astrophysics and the speaker is introduced to me as Dr. Johnson, I definitely am not going to open my mouth and say aah.

Now if I am in a social, non professional environment and someone introduces himself to me as Dr. Watt, I'd think "whatever, you pompous ass".

Situational context.

The same thing applies to pilot's wings.

 

[Erice]

Perhaps a better aviation analogy would be that people think being a commercial pilot is the same as being an airline pilot. Many people equate the two. And then there's the more confusing case of someone holding an airline transport pilot rating, but still not being an airline pilot ...