FBO will not give me my plane back

ircphoenix said:
If he left his aircraft at an FBO, AND the FBO knew of his intent to leave the aircraft parked there for two weeks, AND the FBO told him no fees... then holding his plane for ransom in a hangar is tantamount to embezzlement, which is a crime... even under new management. And 1200 bucks would be pretty damn exorbitant almost anywhere in the country other than a BIG airport (Or Signature at literally anywhere).

However, IF this situation in fact occurred, the way it most likely went down was, "Good morning sir, what can we do for you today?" Can you fill up the plane please? "Absolutely sir! Do you need anything else?" Oh, I was just wondering what your parking fee is. "Actually the parking fee [implied today] is waived with your fuel purchase." Awesome! Thanks! *leaves for two weeks*

Then two weeks later the FBO is wondering where the hell the idiot is that left his plane parked on their ramp for two weeks, since almost nobody flies in for TWO WEEKS to an FBO. Then he shows up and management, unaware of the specifics of the previous conversation, decides "screw you buddy. We'll teach you to try to game the system." Which, fine. But can't hold the plane ransom for a contract dispute in a lot of states without a lien. So they'd still be in the wrong for holding the plane, and you'd have grounds for a civil case.

But my money is that this situation a) never happened or b) happened VERY differently than the OP suggests.
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I missed something, who placed funds with who or who was the employee?
Embezzlement - theft or misappropriation of funds placed in one's trust or belonging to one's employer.
 
Maybe the plane is at Gardner City.

Rule 1-6. Lien Possessory Right- To enforce the payment of any such charge, the City may retain possession of such personal property until all reasonable, customary, and usual compensation has been paid in full. Any party with a legal interest in the property which is the subject of such a lien may request a hearing before the Gardner City Council to contest the validity of the lien after which the Gardner City Council shall adjudge the validity of the lien.
 
Clip4 said:
Maybe the plane is at Gardner City.

Rule 1-6. Lien Possessory Right- To enforce the payment of any such charge, the City may retain possession of such personal property until all reasonable, customary, and usual compensation has been paid in full. Any party with a legal interest in the property which is the subject of such a lien may request a hearing before the Gardner City Council to contest the validity of the lien after which the Gardner City Council shall adjudge the validity of the lien.
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"reasonable, customary, and usual compensation"

This guy's story is he left it parked on the ramp. Came back later and it was in a locked hangar and they want $1200 to let him look at his plane.

I'm not sure whose definition of "reasonable, customary, and usual compensation" they are using.
 
New Hampshire RSA 450:1 “any person who maintains a public garage, public or private airport or hangar or trailer court for the parking, storage or care of motor vehicles or aircraft or house trailers brought to his/her premises or placed in his/her care by or with the consent of the legal or equitable owner will have a lien upon said motor vehicle or aircraft or house trailer, so long as the same remains in his/her possession, for proper charges due to him/her for the parking, storage or care of the same.” [In re Achorn, 124 B.R. 150, 153 (Bankr. D. Me. 1991)]

Lien-a right to keep possession of property belonging to another person until a debt owed by that person is discharged

So I wouldn’t refuse to pay an FBO in New Hampshire.
 
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Maybe this should be used on the hangar door to free the airplane....

th
 
Clip4 said:
I missed something, who placed funds with who or who was the employee?
Embezzlement - theft or misappropriation of funds placed in one's trust or belonging to one's employer.
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Embezzlement is money OR property.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 
Clip4 said:
New Hampshire RSA 450:1 “any person who maintains a public garage, public or private airport or hangar or trailer court for the parking, storage or care of motor vehicles or aircraft or house trailers brought to his/her premises or placed in his/her care by or with the consent of the legal or equitable owner will have a lien upon said motor vehicle or aircraft or house trailer, so long as the same remains in his/her possession, for proper charges due to him/her for the parking, storage or care of the same.” [In re Achorn, 124 B.R. 150, 153 (Bankr. D. Me. 1991)]

Lien-a right to keep possession of property belonging to another person until a debt owed by that person is discharged

So I wouldn’t refuse to pay an FBO in New Hampshire.
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No matter how much they add on to the agreed upon fee.
 
Salty said:
No matter how much they add on to the agreed upon fee.
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Pay it and go to court because you keep being charged hangar fees while you argue under that law. And it is your word against the FBO. Receipts issued to their other customers easily substantiate their rates against you in court.
 
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Clip4 said:
Pay it and go to court because you keep being charged while you argue under that law. And it is your word against the FBO and receipts issued to their other customers easily substantiate their rates against your word.
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What airport are you at again? Important info to know.
 
Salty said:
What airport are you at again? Important info to know.
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The one in a prime lacation with big runways and the fancy FBO with really high ramp fees and receptionists in blouses showing their boobs.
 
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Clip4 said:
Pay it and go to court because you keep being charged hangar fees while you argue under that law. And it is your word against the FBO. Receipts issued to their other customers easily substantiate their rates against you in court.
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So if I lock up your airplane without your permission, can I charge you rent for the period of time during which I'm depriving you of the use of your airplane?
 
Palmpilot said:
So if I lock up your airplane without your permission, can I charge you rent for the period of time during which I'm depriving you of the use of your airplane?
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Under RSA450:1 did I bring my airplane to your premises in NH where you operate a hangar and fail to pay the proper charges due? Under those circumstances, yes you can.

If I did not enter your premises, no you may not.
 
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Sketchy, that’s the word I was looking for.
 
Clip4 said:
The one in a prime lacation with big runways and the fancy FBO with really high ramp fees and receptionists in blouses showing their boobs.
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You’d think you’d be proud to tell us.
 
Bobanna said:
Voluntary discussion and input towards resolving an unusual situation absent the relative facts and issues is prima fascia being "had." The spectrum of solutions, along with the knowledge gained, made it worthwhile (for a while). Over and out.
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Is "prima fascia" Italian for "nice trim"?
 
Hmm... what's a fascia?

  1. The phrase prima facie is sometimes misspelled prima facia in the mistaken belief that facia is the actual Latin word; however, faciē is in fact the ablative case of faciēs, a fifth declension Latin noun.
 
Clip4 said:
Under RSA450:1 did I bring my airplane to your premises in NH where you operate a hangar and fail to pay the proper charges due? Under those circumstances, yes you can.

If I did not enter your premises, no you may not.
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You parked it on my ramp, and I moved it into my hangar without notice or permission and locked it up there.
 
Clip4 said:
Thanks!
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So I get to not only charge you $1200 for a service that you didn't want or expect, but then I get to continue charging you for continuing to keep your airplane in my hangar against your will? Sounds like a real cash cow. Maybe I'd better start an FBO! ;)
 
Palmpilot said:
So I get to not only charge you $1200 for a service that you didn't want or expect, but then I get to continue charging you for continuing to keep your airplane in my hangar against your will? Sounds like a real cash cow. Maybe I'd better start an FBO! ;)
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It is worth $20K and I owe $60k on it. Don’t take any parts off it because the repo guy has been trying to find it for two months and they claim it is theirs. If you had been around the FBO business you know that how it rolls.
 
Clip4 said:
It is worth $20K and I owe $60k on it. Don’t take any parts off it because the repo guy has been trying to find it for two months and they claim it is theirs. If you had been around the FBO business you know that how it rolls.
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What does the value of the airplane and the liens on it have to do with whether it's legal for me to charge you for storage that I caused to happen on my own initiative?
 
Palmpilot said:
What does the value of the airplane and the liens on it have to do with whether it's legal for me to charge you for storage that I caused to happen on my own initiative?
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The fact that this has never happened to you or anyone you know should tell you something. Heck if an FBO wants to hold your plane for unpaid fees they would just leave your plane outside with a prop lock on it. Which happens a lot. They don’t have to tie up hangar space in demand by the paying customers.
 
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Where's the OP? I hate these drive by posts..... what happened?
 
Probably the OP's not back 'cause he was asking for a friend.
 
Clip4 said:
The fact that this has never happened to you or anyone you know should tell you something. Heck if an FBO wants to hold your plane for unpaid fees they would just leave your plane outside with a prop lock on it. Which happens a lot. They don’t have to tie up hangar space in demand by the paying customers.
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You could be right.
 
Give the person at the desk two options, y’all can pull my plane out of the hanger or I will. Respond to their decision accordingly, then go through your preflight and fly home.
 
Clip4 said:
The one in a prime lacation with big runways and the fancy FBO with really high ramp fees and receptionists in blouses showing their boobs.
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I've read about places like that. They really exist?!!!
 
William D. Meredith II said:
Give the person at the desk two options, y’all can pull my plane out of the hanger or I will. Respond to their decision accordingly, then go through your preflight and fly home.
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This pre-supposes he can get his plane out of the hangar without moving any other plane or equipment. If the FBO is being nutty about the situation they could simply park a tug in his way to block egress. He jumps on their tug? That's a no-no.
 
William D. Meredith II said:
Give the person at the desk two options, y’all can pull my plane out of the hanger or I will. Respond to their decision accordingly, then go through your preflight and fly home.
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And by "Respond to their decision accordingly", I assume you mean leave quietly and without a fuss when they tell you "No".
 
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