The 7 Deadly Sins of Radio Communications

What the [heck] is "Last Call," and what purpose could it possibly serve? You bored millennials gotta make up fake words to sound "woke?"
 
IK04 said:
What the [heck] is "Last Call," and what purpose could it possibly serve? You bored millennials gotta make up fake words to sound "woke?"
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This I agree with. No clue what purpose “last call” serves. Nor have I ever heard it.
 
Kritchlow said:
I realize I’m in the minority here, but imo there are times when atitppa is appropriate. There are also times it is not appropriate.
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Nope. Never.

Instead, just state your position and intentions, which is meaningful to others and will cue them to provide their info if relevant. No need for a vague request that provides no info to anyone else.
 
Does all this stuff really bother you guys that much? I thought the original post title (with 'Deadly" in it) was going to be about radio usage that leads to dangerous scenarios playing out. In reality, only aaattttiiiipppaaa (or whatever it is) seems to be specifically recommended against.

I think I am going to start using "With You", "Last Call", "Tally Ho", "Negative Ghost Rider", "Still looking", "No Joy", "Bingo Fuel" and announce every single taxi intention at the non-towered fields...just to drive you crazy.
 
IK04 said:
What the [heck] is "Last Call," and what purpose could it possibly serve? You bored millennials gotta make up fake words to sound "woke?"
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Actually useful when you fly in/out of a field with a lot of student pilots. It can be hard to keep track of which plane is staying in pattern; especially when the CFI steps in and makes a few calls for the overworked student; and who is leaving.
If someone has just done a few laps in the pattern, then leaves, this verbal notice is easier to track. Since I started hearing the "last call" call, it does seem to have expanded in usage though from training fields to sort of anywhere; not sure why.

Tim
 
IK04 said:
What the [heck] is "Last Call," and what purpose could it possibly serve? You bored millennials gotta make up fake words to sound "woke?"
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Yep, some folks just have to say something. Listening works too.
 
IK04 said:
What the [heck] is "Last Call," and what purpose could it possibly serve? You bored millennials gotta make up fake words to sound "woke?"
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Saying that you are clear to the, what ever direction, and "changing frequency" makes more sense to me.
 
Kritchlow said:
While I understand that’s an annoyance, it’s a call that’s warranted. If the FBO doesn’t have a discreet frequency.... it’s on them.
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No...its not warranted. It is a way for the jet jockeys to sound important. Due to your altitude and line of sight transmission range, you are now tying up the CTAF frequency for 100s of airports and even more pilots. CTAF is not the place to make all of your arrangements, a phone call is.
 
Salty said:
Nope. Never.

Instead, just state your position and intentions, which is meaningful to others and will cue them to provide their info if relevant. No need for a vague request that provides no info to anyone else.
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Okay. That’s your opinion and I respect that. I’ve been doing this for a while and find certain times it’s beneficial.
 
midwestpa24 said:
No...its not warranted. It is a way for the jet jockeys to sound important. Due to your altitude and line of sight transmission range, you are now tying up the CTAF frequency for 100s of airports and even more pilots. CTAF is not the place to make all of your arrangements, a phone call is.
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You are incorrect. Many times this is the fbo published frequency. These calls need to be made. Sorry to disrupt your world.

Source: corporate pilot (past life) 20 years.
 
Kritchlow said:
You are incorrect. Many times this is the fbo published frequency. These calls need to be made. Sorry to disrupt your world.

Source: corporate pilot (past life) 20 years.
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I disagree. Your catering order could have been prearranged. Calling in a fuel order on the radio is pointless, doesn't speed up the process. Your passengers rental car isn't more important than some other guy 100 miles away trying to make traffic pattern calls. There is very little pertinent information the FBO needs from you that you couldn't or shouldn't have prearranged.

Coming from someone that has done everything from fueling planes to flying corporate in the last 20 years.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I disagree. Your catering order could have been prearranged. Calling in a fuel order on the radio is pointless, doesn't speed up the process. Your passengers rental car isn't more important than some other guy 100 miles away trying to make traffic pattern calls. There is very little pertinent information the FBO needs from you that you couldn't or shouldn't have prearranged.

Coming from someone that has done everything from fueling planes to flying corporate in the last 20 years.
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Okay. You just are not aware of the way it is.
Unicom is more than a ctaf.
 
Kritchlow said:
Okay. That’s your opinion and I respect that. I’ve been doing this for a while and find certain times it’s beneficial.
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So provide a single example where simply stating your position isn’t better. Appeal to authority fallacies don’t count.
 
Kritchlow said:
Okay. You just are not aware of the way it is.
Unicom is more than a ctaf.
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Oh I'm aware it happens, but it shouldn't. Until you are trying to get a word in edge wise to your solo student while some guy with four stripes is discussing his turn down service at his hotel, you won't understand either. One person overriding 100s of other people with useless chatter is a problem.
 
Salty said:
So provide a single example where simply stating your position isn’t better. Appeal to authority fallacies don’t count.
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Will do. Stand by a bit. Just pulled into dinner with my wife.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Oh I'm aware it happens, but it shouldn't. Until you are trying to get a word in edge wise to your solo student while some guy with four stripes is discussing his turn down service at his hotel, you won't understand either. One person overriding 100s of other people with useless chatter is a problem.
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It’s a shared frequency. Sorry.
 
Kritchlow said:
It’s a shared frequency. Sorry.
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And that is what this is all about, sharing. Limiting the amount of time spent holding to PTT so others can share the frequency. Not monopolozing it with useless chatter.
 
midwestpa24 said:
And that is what this is all about, sharing. Limiting the amount of time spent holding to PTT so others can share the frequency. Not monopolozing it with useless chatter.
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It’s not useless chatter. We are not asking about their kids baptism.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Haha, sure.
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Getting ready to order so little time to chat, but confirming catering, fuel, and lav service is appropriate Unicom talk with the fbo.
Sorry you see it differently, but that’s the way it is. If it’s an after hours tower freq ctaf I would agree.
 
Kritchlow said:
Getting ready to order so little time to chat, but confirming catering, fuel, and lav service is appropriate Unicom talk with the fbo.
Sorry you see it differently, but that’s the way it is. If it’s an after hours tower freq ctaf I would agree.
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You don't get it, that's obvious. Ordering or ''confirming' your order over the radio is a joke. It doesn't do anything to benefit your operation unless you failed to plan in the first place. However by doing it at altitude you are interfering with dozens if not hundreds of other operations. I can tell you the FBO rolls their eyes at your type as well.

I'm done, you obviously think you are very important. Probably expect the closest parking spot everywhere you go too.
 
midwestpa24 said:
You don't get it, that's obvious. Ordering or ''confirming' your order over the radio is a joke. It doesn't do anything to benefit your operation unless you failed to plan in the first place. However by doing it at altitude you are interfering with dozens if not hundreds of other operations. I can tell you the FBO rolls their eyes at your type as well.

I'm done, you obviously think you are very important. Probably expect the closest parking spot everywhere you go too.
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Done corporate for 20+ years.

You have absolutely no clue.
 
IK04 said:
What the [heck] is "Last Call," and what purpose could it possibly serve? You bored millennials gotta make up fake words to sound "woke?"
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That's so the bored millennials drinking gluten free craft beer at the local pub know when to place their last saison order before putting mom and dad's credit card away

Kritchlow said:
This I agree with. No clue what purpose “last call” serves. Nor have I ever heard it.
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-I agree, it's stupid, but this guy I flew with so logic to it. We made a few stops at untowered airports, he would always say "departing the area to the east yada yada yada, last call" - his logic was it would tell other pilots that he was changing frequencies and would no longer be reachable on the CTAF

Kritchlow said:
While I understand that’s an annoyance, it’s a call that’s warranted. If the FBO doesn’t have a discreet frequency.... it’s on them.
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I totally agree. It's not just for corporate guys to sound important. I've had to use it a couple times, if the GPS shows my ETA is going to be 10 minutes after the FBO closes because of headwinds, etc., it is nice to pick them up on the radio and ask if they can hang out.. they pull you up on Flightaware and in my luck they've always stuck around. Hopefully the tip and a purchase of 60-70 gallons of gas makes up for the extra half hour they were open!

Kritchlow said:
there are times when atitppa is appropriate
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Curious why? I'll dial over to CTAF and call up with "podunk traffic, XX is red and silver Cirrus, 5 miles south at 3,500, will be entering left downwind runway 27 full stop" curious when adding "anyone in the pattern please advise" would be beneficial?
--what I hate about untowered fields is when someone says "at the final approach fix, practice approach RNAV 9, low pass then going missed" <- like, WTF does that mean to a VFR person. And frankly, even IFR pilots who understand the phraseology may not have your plate up and looking at it. Just keep it bone simple.. no need to sound important. Who are you, what and what color are you, and what are you doing..

IK04 said:
what's attipppa
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Any traffic in the pattern please advise. Often seen as an annoying lazy maneuver but sometimes apparently warranted.. see above
 
Kritchlow said:
I realize I’m in the minority here, but imo there are times when atitppa is appropriate. There are also times it is not appropriate.
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ATITAPA is NEVER appropriate!! Master CFI Bob just quoted the FAA's official, published-for-all opinion above.

Here you go: "Bugger 23X is 10 miles W of City Field. ATITAPA." Now there are two plames in the pattern, one on a practice instrument approach 6 miles to the west, and a student at the hold short line, doing his cross country work. Which one is supposed to answer you? And how do all of them know? "Listen to the Unicom and figure it out, dumbass! We can't all answer you at the same time!"
 
midwestpa24 said:
You don't get it, that's obvious. Ordering or ''confirming' your order over the radio is a joke. It doesn't do anything to benefit your operation unless you failed to plan in the first place. However by doing it at altitude you are interfering with dozens if not hundreds of other operations. I can tell you the FBO rolls their eyes at your type as well.

I'm done, you obviously think you are very important. Probably expect the closest parking spot everywhere you go too.
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Seeing as though
Hank S said:
ATITAPA is NEVER appropriate!! Master CFI Bob just quoted the FAA's official, published-for-all opinion above.

Here you go: "Bugger 23X is 10 miles W of City Field. ATITAPA." Now there are two plames in the pattern, one on a practice instrument approach 6 miles to the west, and a student at the hold short line, doing his cross country work. Which one is supposed to answer you? And how do all of them know? "Listen to the Unicom and figure it out, dumbass! We can't all answer you at the same time!"
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i understand your point.
Yet I disagree on certain cucumstances.
I don’t expect a PP flying a slow airplane to understand.
 
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Kritchlow said:
Seeing as though

i understand your point.
Yet I disagree on certain cucumstances.
I don’t expect a PP flying a slow airplane to understand.
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I‘m curious if you are so obtuse to think you’re not being an offensive pr***k, or do you just not care?

You have time to tell us we can’t understand but not time to give a single scenario.

I’m calling BS.
 
Kritchlow said:
Seeing as though

i understand your point.
Yet I disagree on certain cucumstances.
I don’t expect a PP flying a slow airplane to understand.
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I bow to your obvious superiority! Your years of corporate flying have increased your brain capacity to the point that you know more about flying than the collective knowledge that the FAA has gained in three times that, plus the knowledge they inherited from the CAA . . .

Pray educate us unfortunate, deluded souls who believe the FAA's advice that ATITPA is never appropriate, and provide two (2) situations in which it can help and not cause chaos.
 
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