Welding arc - safe viewing distance?

Matthew

Matthew

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Matthew
Is there a minimum safe distance for bystanders?

A guy was doing some welding so I stopped to watch. I was maybe 50' away, looking through a window and my glasses, so I don't know how much that attenuated any UV. I commented to another guy about the brightness, even at that distance. I couldn't find any regulations online, other than a note that said at 50' it would take something like 10 minutes of constant exposure to cause damage. Somewhere else I saw that closing your eyes or looking away when it became uncomfortable would happen at a lower level of exposure than what would cause damage.
 
R**2 is your friend. Glass and glasses are both your friend. The IR is almost as bad for you as the UV, and both glass and glasses help, though usually glasses help more. Like so many things, there isn't a firm number. Arc current, and length of exposure both play into it. If you want to be safe, don't watch. For occasional, can't help it cases, if you don't have bad dry eye a few hours later, you shouldn't have acquired meaningful exposure.
 
Closing your eyes may help with flash burns in your eye, but not sunburn on your face.

But at 50 feet... likely snow big deal.
 
Years ago I came across an ad in a trade mag (Laser Focus World, July 2005 - I still have it) and did a double-take. I went on their website and saw the same ad, but with a different photo. I think someone in their marketing department was playing around and the wrong photo got printed.

lasereye.JPG
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Closing your eyes may help with flash burns in your eye, but not sunburn on your face.

But at 50 feet... likely snow big deal.
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I'm not worried about it, but I was wondering if there is a published safe distance. I guess there are a lot of variables - welding current, metals, ambient light that might affect your pupil size, distance, glass/glasses, other.
 
Zeldman said:
I don't know the difference but one time I was watching one of those hotrod build it shows on the Tv and the guy started arc wielding. I instinctively shielded my eyes with my hand....
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I've done that, too.
 
Zeldman said:
I don't know the difference but one time I was watching one of those hotrod build it shows on the Tv and the guy started arc wielding. I instinctively shielded my eyes with my hand....
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Yeah, old habits die hard. I was watching a YT video, the phone rang, so I grabbed my TV remote and pointed it at my computer.
 
Dad used to teach MIG and TIG welding at the university years ago as an adjunct. Truthfully, there is NO safe distance from the welding arc. If you're going to be around it, than you need to suit up and wear proper protection. Welding arcs emit the full range of UV (A, B and C). UV-C is ionizing, so you really don't want to play around with it or else you'll end up with arc eye.
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Closing your eyes may help with flash burns in your eye
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UV-A will penetrate right through your eyelids. Although long wave UV isn't going to burn you, repeated exposure can cause skin and eye damage such as cataracts.
 
I've done a lot of arc welding and I sure wouldn't watch it from 50 feet. Good way to burn your retinas.
 
On an unrelated note, I've always wanted to try one of those expensive welding helmets where you can see what you're about to weld before the arcing starts.

As for watching the videos...I'm like you guys...I just can't get myself to look at it. My brain won't let my eyes do it.
 
Gerhardt said:
On an unrelated note, I've always wanted to try one of those expensive welding helmets where you can see what you're about to weld before the arcing starts.
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If you weld even once a year, or a project where you want your best shot at decent appearance, I highly recommend one. I have the entry level Miller, and if I was still going through more than 40 CF of C25 a year, I absolutely would have upgraded to one of the larger window versions by now.
 
Dan Thomas said:
I've done a lot of arc welding and I sure wouldn't watch it from 50 feet. Good way to burn your retinas.
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G-force said:
From Lincolin Electrics: https://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/us/en/interactive/welding-safety/data/FACT-26.pdf
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From the chart in that PDF, the worst case for a 1 minute exposure is 6.7 meters (22 feet). That seems way too close but maybe the radiation is low enough at that distance not to burn. The brightness sure would make you turn your head before that 1 minute was up.

I'm estimating I was at 15 meters (50 feet) and watched for a few seconds through either CR-39 or polycarbonate glasses and a glass window. It was too bright to watch much longer than that. My safety glasses are polycarb, but my normal glasses I don't know. I was wearing my street glasses.
 
You will know for sure tonight. Raw potato is the treatment for burned eyes. Apply directly to the eye.
 
So either material for the lenses should block most UV-B and UV-C, as well as the IR component. UV-A is probably at least partially blocked by either as well. Also, at twice the distance, inverse square law says you were getting 1/4 the exposure per second that the PDF is citing at half the distance. So compared to that, you should be good.
 
I don't doubt I'll be OK. I was trying to find out what distance is actually "safe". It surprised me that 22' was OK. Somewhere else I read that the brightness of the arc causes an instinctive reaction to close your eyes or turn your head before the radiation levels cause damage. I guess that's a good thing, the pain from the bright light makes you flinch before the non-pain (until hours later) generating radiation damage starts. I don't think this applies to the welder himself, though, at less than an arm's length.
 
-KLB- said:
So either material for the lenses should block most UV-B and UV-C, as well as the IR component. UV-A is probably at least partially blocked by either as well. Also, at twice the distance, inverse square law says you were getting 1/4 the exposure per second that the PDF is citing at half the distance. So compared to that, you should be good.
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Partially true. Remember, UV reflects off any surface to some degree, so even if you aren't being directly hit by it, you could still get burns if the given surface has a high albedo. UV-A is a stubborn wavelength to fully block out, as it's the closest to visible light. Any welding helmet and/or jacket will be properly made to protect from these wavelengths.
 
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Gerhardt said:
On an unrelated note, I've always wanted to try one of those expensive welding helmets where you can see what you're about to weld before the arcing starts.

As for watching the videos...I'm like you guys...I just can't get myself to look at it. My brain won't let my eyes do it.
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Forty bucks for an auto-darkening helmet.
 
Trying to think of a good reason for my fovea to be directed at a welder's arc. Coming up empty.
 
Safe distance for unshielded eyes when arc welding?
Two days should be just about right.
Welders eye can be some serious pain.
 
Gerhardt said:
On an unrelated note, I've always wanted to try one of those expensive welding helmets where you can see what you're about to weld before the arcing starts.

As for watching the videos...I'm like you guys...I just can't get myself to look at it. My brain won't let my eyes do it.
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Auto-darkening welding helmets are one of the greatest all-time inventions, and they're not that expensive.

https://www.amazon.com/Powered-Weld...locphy=200511&hvtargid=pla-379106135400&psc=1

I think I got mine from Harbor Freight.

My Lincoln MIG has the wire cold until I squeeze the trigger. With the auto-darkening helmet, I lower the shield, put the wire exactly where I want to start the weld, squeeze the trigger, and go. Simple magic.
 
Matthew said:
I guess that's a good thing, the pain from the bright light makes you flinch before the non-pain
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On a tangent, this is one of the scary parts of some of the DIY or cheap CO2 laser cutter systems. With a IR laser beam, there is no visual response to cause you to flinch, blink, or otherwise protect your eyes before they cook. Proper enclosures and interlocks are key.
 
-KLB- said:
On a tangent, this is one of the scary parts of some of the DIY or cheap CO2 laser cutter systems. With a IR laser beam, there is no visual response to cause you to flinch, blink, or otherwise protect your eyes before they cook. Proper enclosures and interlocks are key.
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Always, always use full eye protection around lasers. It doesn't take much for a stray beam to start bouncing around or get through a gap. Depending on the laser, that beam will be invisible.
 
When welding, I'm generally looking at the arc around 16-20". But that's through a proper welding mask. Walking past someone welding, I generally look away even if theynare behind one of the new translucent welding curtains. So far, no probkem tripping over things with my head turned . . . . :D
 
I tried one of those old flip helmets the first week in class and was so bad I went out and got a auto-darkening one.
 
A basic auto darkening helmet is so cheap now and makes the process so much easier there's really no excuse for using the old style.
 
Half Fast said:
Auto-darkening welding helmets are one of the greatest all-time inventions, and they're not that expensive.

https://www.amazon.com/Powered-Weld...locphy=200511&hvtargid=pla-379106135400&psc=1

I think I got mine from Harbor Freight.

My Lincoln MIG has the wire cold until I squeeze the trigger. With the auto-darkening helmet, I lower the shield, put the wire exactly where I want to start the weld, squeeze the trigger, and go. Simple magic.
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Reminds me of the PLZT goggle we would have to wear for nuclear ops in the AF. Except ours didn't have cool flames painted on...
eeu2ap_01.jpg

They were clear-ish until they sensed the flash from a nuclear detonation, they would auto-darken, in theory, quickly enough to save your eyesight. We also carried eye patches and gold goggles, just in case...
 
How far away is the sun?
 
I recently bought an auto-darkening helmet. Paid $29, I think. I still find myself raising it and nodding it down before welding like I've done for over 40 years. Old habits...
 
Dan Thomas said:
I recently bought an auto-darkening helmet. Paid $29, I think. I still find myself raising it and nodding it down before welding like I've done for over 40 years. Old habits...
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I just upgraded my auto darkening helmet to the new type, because my older auto darkening was too slow dimming. The new one has no on/off switch. lay it down shuts off in 1 minute of no movement, and back on as soon as you move it..and it is much faster dimming. my old helmet would allow a flash before it dimmed. NOT GOOD.
 
Hank S said:
When welding, I'm generally looking at the arc around 16-20". But that's through a proper welding mask. Walking past someone welding, I generally look away even if theynare behind one of the new translucent welding curtains. So far, no probkem tripping over things with my head turned . . . . :D
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You/we all should turn all the way around, because the arclight will burn the side of your eye just as quick.
 
Sluggo63 said:
Reminds me of the PLZT goggle we would have to wear for nuclear ops in the AF. ... They were clear-ish until they sensed the flash from a nuclear detonation, they would auto-darken, in theory, quickly enough to save your eyesight.
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Turns out that peril-sensitive sunglasses are real...
 
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