UPDATED: Wow, NOT insane costs just to rent a plane from Horizon Aviation Services - CPK

ActiveAir

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This thread was updated. See post #25 on 11/26/18. Horizon turned out to be great!

Wow. Looking at spending a few days on the wrong coast, I mean East coast, and was looking into renting a plane from Horizon Aviation at CPK for a couple of hours.

Not that I am any sort of ace stick and rudder, but I do have over 1150 tt, with current IR, acro training, EMT training, tailwheel endorsement, mountain flying experience, glider experience and even hang gliding experience and currently fly my own HP/complex Piper Comanche 260B (over 1,000 hrs).

Girl on the phone told me that just to rent their cheapest/slowest plane will require a minimum of 3 to 4 hours of their training just to get checked out. That also includes an hour of ground instruction. All of that will cost me at least $500, if I get through their training in under the 4 hours! Then another couple hundred to rent it. So, for just a couple hours of rental for one day, it will cost me close to $1,000.00! For a Skycatcher! Add $30/hr (or $250, assuming I get through their training in less than 4 hours and fly on my own for 2) for a 172! Anyone want to split a charter jet for less?

Anybody know of a more reasonable alternative around the Norfolk/VA Beach area? I am stunned. :eek::hammer:
 
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If you’re going to travel and fly other airplanes it’s worth looking into OpenAirplane. One checkout good anywhere.

Rod did a good thing starting that up, but it hasn’t been as popular as it could be.
 
If you’re going to travel and fly other airplanes it’s worth looking into OpenAirplane. One checkout good anywhere.

Rod did a good thing starting that up, but it hasn’t been as popular as it could be.

I will look into that, thanks.

I can see an hour with a check out instructor, but 3 to 4 is over the top.
 
Those checkout requirements are definitely excessive. A quick trip to the practice area for a few stalls, slow flight, and steep turns and then back to the airport for 2 or 3 trips around the pattern is all I’ve ever had to do.
 
Have to agree,that seems excessive. Usually especially in a 172 the checkout takes an hour,maybe two if it has a G1000,then they tack on a second hour ,if you don’t have 1000 time.
 
Places like that aren’t in business to rent airplanes.

Pass.
 
Wow. Looking at spending a few days on the wrong coast, I mean East coast, and was looking into renting a plane from Horizon Aviation at CPK for a couple of hours.

Not that I am any sort of ace stick and rudder, but I do have over 1150 tt, with current IR, acro training, EMT training, tailwheel endorsement, mountain flying experience, glider experience and even hang gliding experience and currently fly my own HP/complex Piper Comanche 260B (over 1,000 hrs).

Girl on the phone told me that just to rent their cheapest/slowest plane will require a minimum of 3 to 4 hours of their training just to get checked out. That also includes an hour of ground instruction. All of that will cost me at least $500, if I get through their training in under the 4 hours! Then another couple hundred to rent it. So, for just a couple hours of rental for one day, it will cost me close to $1,000.00! For a Skycatcher! Add $30/hr (or $250, assuming I get through their training in less than 4 hours and fly on my own for 2) for a 172! Anyone want to split a charter jet for less?

Anybody know of a more reasonable alternative around the Norfolk/VA Beach area? I am stunned. :eek::hammer:
Call Mike Pinner instead of the customer service rep.
757.421.9000
 
The girl that answered the phone may simply be misinformed, however there is another flight school there, Epix Aviation.

There's also Curtis Eads at Hampton Roads airport as well as another option there whose name escapes me.
 
Those checkout requirements are definitely excessive. A quick trip to the practice area for a few stalls, slow flight, and steep turns and then back to the airport for 2 or 3 trips around the pattern is all I’ve ever had to do.

I agree with you.

When I was instructing, the company had a 182 on line. Insurance required at least 25 hours previous time in a 182 or similar plane, or 5 hour checkout with an instructor. That is what the insurance wanted. What happened was I usually did an hour flight with at least three landings on the folks that wanted to rent it. One guy on the field had many years time in his 182, so we just did a cockpit checkout.

Sadly, the plane came to a sudden end.

Not my student, this guy bought the plane then the farm.

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/R...tID=20001211X11359&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=FA
 
Maybe this is what the rental company insurers are trying to screen out.

Probably.

For this unfortunate pilot, his instructor taught folks to fly this way by example. The plane had a perfectly good A/P that could have been used to hold altitude as well as turn the plane 180 degrees. I taught others how to use the auto pilot to do just that.
 
There are a lot of places out there that are not in the aviation business. They are in the business of taking as much money from you as possible without going to jail. They just use airplanes as a tool to do it.
 
Wow. Looking at spending a few days on the wrong coast, I mean East coast, and was looking into renting a plane from Horizon Aviation at CPK for a couple of hours.

Not that I am any sort of ace stick and rudder, but I do have over 1150 tt, with current IR, acro training, EMT training, tailwheel endorsement, mountain flying experience, glider experience and even hang gliding experience and currently fly my own HP/complex Piper Comanche 260B (over 1,000 hrs).

Girl on the phone told me that just to rent their cheapest/slowest plane will require a minimum of 3 to 4 hours of their training just to get checked out. That also includes an hour of ground instruction. All of that will cost me at least $500, if I get through their training in under the 4 hours! Then another couple hundred to rent it. So, for just a couple hours of rental for one day, it will cost me close to $1,000.00! For a Skycatcher! Add $30/hr (or $250, assuming I get through their training in less than 4 hours and fly on my own for 2) for a 172! Anyone want to split a charter jet for less?

Anybody know of a more reasonable alternative around the Norfolk/VA Beach area? I am stunned. :hammer:
First off, you will find that GA is generally more expensive here in the Norfolk area than many other parts of the country.

But, that said....Go next door to Epix!

Not only is Horizon CPK expensive, they are a completely jacked up outfit. They survive by taking Navy folks GI Bill money and milking the government. And they suck.

Their solo and x-country rental requirements are ridiculous. And their CFIs teach 747 patterns. I’m based at CPK and have had more issues in the patten with Horizon students and CFIs than any other place.

It’s a wretched place, but Epix next door is a good outfit. Highly recommended.
 
Thanks for the responsive posts - greatly appreciated. I have found out that there is another far more reasonable option at CPK - Epix Aviation. They have a better variety of planes and a much more sensible approach to the rentals. I was told I would essentially need about an hour check out ride with an instructor, demonstrating proficiency in the chosen plane.

I kinda like the idea of the Citabria. Did spins, acro and EMT in one of those a few years ago. May rent one here locally with an instructor before the trip, just to re-acclimate myself to the plane. They are fun to fly.

I do not have G1000 time, so would agree that if I were to rent a plane equipped with one, I would definitely need to spend more time to be checked out. Interestingly, Horizon said I would need 3+ hours of flight time plus 1 hour ground. The other option, Epix Aviation, says up to 3 hours ground and 1 hour flight time for G1000 check out. Significant cost delta and Epix's program makes more sense to me. I am not interested in renting a G1000 equipped plane, though. I do currently fly behind an Aspen with a G530WAAS, which I know is very different. I just want a low and slow, leisurely VFR experience.

I believe the Kettle Just called and wants to know when you are arriving, as you will be in good company.......

I was just kidding about the "Wrong Coast". I love the East coast, as I spent over 10 years of my childhood there, between Dover, DE, Tampa Bay, FL, and a very tiny, beautiful town called East Calais, VT. I will be out visiting my son who is a Naval Nuclear Tech on a carrier stationed at Norfolk. Wish I had the time to bring my plane out there to fly the East Coast, end to end, but don't have the time this trip. That is on my "list".

Call Mike Pinner instead of the customer service rep.
757.421.9000

I did not call, but appreciate the contact info. I understand that the girl that answered the phone may not have been fully informed or representing their full options, although I did ask her if she was certain of the reqs. and she said yes. I do believe it could be a case by case situation although, it wasn't presented as such. She did say, it could be up to the instructor as to whether it would be a full 4 hours check out.

The girl that answered the phone may simply be misinformed, however there is another flight school there, Epix Aviation.

There's also Curtis Eads at Hampton Roads airport as well as another option there whose name escapes me.

You could be right about the girl's understanding. Thank you for calling my attention to Epix Aviation. They were not shown on Airnav.com. I called them and had a great conversation about a sensible approach to renting their planes. I told them to look into why they aren't on Airnav.com. They have a great variety of planes.

There are a lot of places out there that are not in the aviation business. They are in the business of taking as much money from you as possible without going to jail. They just use airplanes as a tool to do it.

Yikes. Hate to say it, but I have seen this too. I don't have any other experience with Horizon, so can't really comment on anything more than my phone call experience.

First off, you will find that GA is generally more expensive here in the Norfolk area than many other parts of the country.

But, that said....Go next door to Epix!

Not only is Horizon CPK expensive, they are a completely jacked up outfit. They survive by taking Navy folks GI Bill money and milking the government. And they suck.

Their solo and x-country rental requirements are ridiculous. And their CFIs teach 747 patterns. I’m based at CPK and have had more issues in the patten with Horizon students and CFIs than any other place.

It’s a wretched place, but Epix next door is a good outfit. Highly recommended.

Thank you for that! I did call Epix as you and dmspilot mentioned, they seemed much more sensible and I will look at using them. I hate to hear about any aviation business with such a reputation as you mention for Horizon. Can't be a good long term strategy.
 
Wow. Looking at spending a few days on the wrong coast, I mean East coast, and was looking into renting a plane from Horizon Aviation at CPK for a couple of hours.

Not that I am any sort of ace stick and rudder, but I do have over 1150 tt, with current IR, acro training, EMT training, tailwheel endorsement, mountain flying experience, glider experience and even hang gliding experience and currently fly my own HP/complex Piper Comanche 260B (over 1,000 hrs).

Girl on the phone told me that just to rent their cheapest/slowest plane will require a minimum of 3 to 4 hours of their training just to get checked out. That also includes an hour of ground instruction. All of that will cost me at least $500, if I get through their training in under the 4 hours! Then another couple hundred to rent it. So, for just a couple hours of rental for one day, it will cost me close to $1,000.00! For a Skycatcher! Add $30/hr (or $250, assuming I get through their training in less than 4 hours and fly on my own for 2) for a 172! Anyone want to split a charter jet for less?

Anybody know of a more reasonable alternative around the Norfolk/VA Beach area? I am stunned. :eek::hammer:

Us “wrong coasters” tend to be more scrutinous of those from west of the Great Fracture. ;) Anyone from east of Nevada just has to flash their Orville & Wilbur and they’re all checked out. Enjoy Kalifornya. :)
 
I will look into that, thanks.

I can see an hour with a check out instructor, but 3 to 4 is over the top.
Generally that's ridiculous, but my understanding is that a LSA is a different animal than what you're used to in terms of handling characteristics.
 
Wrong coaster’s is right. This Tennessee humidity makes me wish I was back in California.

I'm sure Jerry would love to have you on his tax rolls. I voted with my tax dollars almost 10 years ago and left. Never been happier.
 
Us “wrong coasters” tend to be more scrutinous of those from west of the Great Fracture. ;) Anyone from east of Nevada just has to flash their Orville & Wilbur and they’re all checked out. Enjoy Kalifornya. :)

Lol. Good reason to be more scrutinous of westerners, but I never mentioned that in my phone call....;)

Generally that's ridiculous, but my understanding is that a LSA is a different animal than what you're used to in terms of handling characteristics.

Yeah, I would suspect so. Not so much looking for the LSA. Just low and slow in a simple 172 or similar.

Wrong coaster’s is right. This Tennessee humidity makes me wish I was back in California.

Lol. What's humidity? No moisture of any sort out here.

I'm sure Jerry would love to have you on his tax rolls. I voted with my tax dollars almost 10 years ago and left. Never been happier.

Hard to leave the 365 days of flying weather, etc., etc., but Jerry definitely doesn't make it easy to live out here.
 
Generally that's ridiculous, but my understanding is that a LSA is a different animal than what you're used to in terms of handling characteristics.
They're not that different. When I sold my 172 and bought my LSA, my insurance company wanted a one hour transition training session with a CFI who had experience in the Zodiac. Control inputs require a little lighter touch, but after a couple of takeoffs and landings I had it nailed.
 
Follow up: Horizon was great!

So, back in June, I was not able to do this rental and flight, due to an injury. I was able to get out there this past week. I ended up going with Horizon, because Epix did not have any planes or instructors available. Horizon was awesome. They scheduled an instructor and airplane at a convenient time and made the process easy. They did have quite a few documents to read and sign and a few other hoops, but nothing too difficult or really beyond what I would have expected in order to rent a plane.

They had a written quiz, which they had emailed to me before my trip, along with the other requisite paperwork. By completing it all before I left on my trip, I was able to save a lot of time out there. They also had both a SOP manual and a Pilot's Aid which were very helpful. I spent about 30 - 40 mins with ground prep, then flew for just under an hour completing a check ride, both with the instructor. This is exactly what I was hoping for. The instructor and CS guy were also very helpful with suggestions about my desired flight - a loop around the Norfolk Naval base and then on down the Outer Banks to Kill Devil Hills - First Flight America, where the Wright Bros first flight occurred, of course.

Because of their efficiency and efforts, it was not horribly expensive (about half of what my initial quote was) and it was a great experience for my son and I. I was able to show my son his aircraft carrier from the air, and then go cross off what should be on every pilot's bucket list - land and take-off next to the Wright Bros first flight site. The runway actually parallels their track. The Outer Banks are beautiful. The whole area is beautiful, but you can keep the grey skies and cold wx...lol. Rained the next day.

Daniel, in customer service and Ross, the check pilot, were awesome. The plane rental was a little more expensive than EPIX would have been, but they were able to make it all happen for us. For that, I am much appreciative. It was fun to get into a 172 again and fly low and slow. Luckily, the ceilings cooperated and were just high enough for what we needed.
 
Probably.

For this unfortunate pilot, his instructor taught folks to fly this way by example. The plane had a perfectly good A/P that could have been used to hold altitude as well as turn the plane 180 degrees. I taught others how to use the auto pilot to do just that.

Jeezus. The guy had 37 hours total time all aircraft. Ya gotta just shake your head at some of these VFR>IMC.
 
Follow up: Horizon was great!

So, back in June, I was not able to do this rental and flight, due to an injury. I was able to get out there this past week. I ended up going with Horizon, because Epix did not have any planes or instructors available. Horizon was awesome. They scheduled an instructor and airplane at a convenient time and made the process easy. They did have quite a few documents to read and sign and a few other hoops, but nothing too difficult or really beyond what I would have expected in order to rent a plane.

They had a written quiz, which they had emailed to me before my trip, along with the other requisite paperwork. By completing it all before I left on my trip, I was able to save a lot of time out there. They also had both a SOP manual and a Pilot's Aid which were very helpful. I spent about 30 - 40 mins with ground prep, then flew for just under an hour completing a check ride, both with the instructor. This is exactly what I was hoping for. The instructor and CS guy were also very helpful with suggestions about my desired flight - a loop around the Norfolk Naval base and then on down the Outer Banks to Kill Devil Hills - First Flight America, where the Wright Bros first flight occurred, of course.

Because of their efficiency and efforts, it was not horribly expensive (about half of what my initial quote was) and it was a great experience for my son and I. I was able to show my son his aircraft carrier from the air, and then go cross off what should be on every pilot's bucket list - land and take-off next to the Wright Bros first flight site. The runway actually parallels their track. The Outer Banks are beautiful. The whole area is beautiful, but you can keep the grey skies and cold wx...lol. Rained the next day.

Daniel, in customer service and Ross, the check pilot, were awesome. The plane rental was a little more expensive than EPIX would have been, but they were able to make it all happen for us. For that, I am much appreciative. It was fun to get into a 172 again and fly low and slow. Luckily, the ceilings cooperated and were just high enough for what we needed.
Nice write up. Did you discuss with them what you were originally quoted?
 
Sounds like a scam, should be under a hr to figure out if someone is good to go.
 
Follow up: Horizon was great!

So, back in June, I was not able to do this rental and flight, due to an injury. I was able to get out there this past week. I ended up going with Horizon, because Epix did not have any planes or instructors available. Horizon was awesome. They scheduled an instructor and airplane at a convenient time and made the process easy. They did have quite a few documents to read and sign and a few other hoops, but nothing too difficult or really beyond what I would have expected in order to rent a plane.

They had a written quiz, which they had emailed to me before my trip, along with the other requisite paperwork. By completing it all before I left on my trip, I was able to save a lot of time out there. They also had both a SOP manual and a Pilot's Aid which were very helpful. I spent about 30 - 40 mins with ground prep, then flew for just under an hour completing a check ride, both with the instructor. This is exactly what I was hoping for. The instructor and CS guy were also very helpful with suggestions about my desired flight - a loop around the Norfolk Naval base and then on down the Outer Banks to Kill Devil Hills - First Flight America, where the Wright Bros first flight occurred, of course.

Because of their efficiency and efforts, it was not horribly expensive (about half of what my initial quote was) and it was a great experience for my son and I. I was able to show my son his aircraft carrier from the air, and then go cross off what should be on every pilot's bucket list - land and take-off next to the Wright Bros first flight site. The runway actually parallels their track. The Outer Banks are beautiful. The whole area is beautiful, but you can keep the grey skies and cold wx...lol. Rained the next day.

Daniel, in customer service and Ross, the check pilot, were awesome. The plane rental was a little more expensive than EPIX would have been, but they were able to make it all happen for us. For that, I am much appreciative. It was fun to get into a 172 again and fly low and slow. Luckily, the ceilings cooperated and were just high enough for what we needed.

First- Just so we're clear, FFA stands for "first flight anywhere". :)

Congrats. Probably the person on the phone either 1) misunderstood your request, 2) is required to quote a "worst case" amount to manage expectations, or 3) was clueless.

One thought...usually if I ever get checked out somewhere I try to make it a flight review. After all, you're already going to do some ground work and you're going to demonstrate that you know how to fly. That shouldn't add much (if any) to the bill. There's no penalty for doing a flight review more often then every 24 months.

Glad you enjoyed the flight. Norfolk area is great to fly in. I fly through regularly on the way to Hatteras Island and Norfolk/Oceana approach are great to work with, even when their other ATC customers have 200kts on me.
 
First- Just so we're clear, FFA stands for "first flight anywhere". :)

Congrats. Probably the person on the phone either 1) misunderstood your request, 2) is required to quote a "worst case" amount to manage expectations, or 3) was clueless.

One thought...usually if I ever get checked out somewhere I try to make it a flight review. After all, you're already going to do some ground work and you're going to demonstrate that you know how to fly. That shouldn't add much (if any) to the bill. There's no penalty for doing a flight review more often then every 24 months.

Glad you enjoyed the flight. Norfolk area is great to fly in. I fly through regularly on the way to Hatteras Island and Norfolk/Oceana approach are great to work with, even when their other ATC customers have 200kts on me.


All good points, thanks. I was limited on time, and didn't think about the BFR option...doh! I think the instructor even mentioned it. Norfolk and everyone was great to work with. I was flying on a holiday weekend (Friday), so I am sure that helped. Not much of any traffic around.
 
FWIW, Horizon at CPK let me stay in one of their hangars on no notice at no charge when I moved it out of the way of Hurricane Florence earlier this year. I thought they were really nice about it. All of the other airports said 'No room'. Horizon said 'Come on, we'll find you a spot somewhere '. It gave me one less thing to worry about during the flooding.
 
FWIW, Horizon at CPK let me stay in one of their hangars on no notice at no charge when I moved it out of the way of Hurricane Florence earlier this year. I thought they were really nice about it. All of the other airports said 'No room'. Horizon said 'Come on, we'll find you a spot somewhere '. It gave me one less thing to worry about during the flooding.
That's because the owner of Horizon has driven so many people away. There are seriously a lot of people who won't even go to CPK because of that guy.

You probably got lucky because he wasn't in town. He lives up north now and only shows up at the airport occasionally to check on things.
 
Damn yankee?
Something like that. He lives up in PA. Not sure where he is originally from. He lived down here when he started Horizon. He used to be the airport manager. That’s when he drove the most people off and many have not forgotten.
 
It always bothers me how one person can ruin things for everyone. We have similar situation. Long retired AF colonel, thinks he owns the place. He has a lot of time to stir things up with the board of directors. Used to own the fbo. Now the manager.
 
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