Should FAA-approved Aviation Trainng Device time be booked as PIC?

VWGhiaBob

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Messages
884
Display Name

Display name:
VWGhiaBob
I'm guessing no, but...

I am using an FAA-approved ATD which the FAA now says I can use to log instrument currency time, with or without an instructor. Question: In my logbook, is this properly booked as PIC time or just total time?

Thanks in advance for the help.

P.S. - Sorry about typo in Subject line...not sure how to fix that!
 
No.

Logging PIC requires an "aircraft." Check the definition.

Total Time? Maybe. I think most of us use that for "total flight time." If you do, then, not that either. same reason.
 
I'm guessing no, but...

I am using an FAA-approved ATD which the FAA now says I can use to log instrument currency time, with or without an instructor. Question: In my logbook, is this properly booked as PIC time or just total time?

Thanks in advance for the help.

P.S. - Sorry about typo in Subject line...not sure how to fix that!

From Advisory Circular 61-136

3. LOGGING TRAINING TIME AND EXPERIENCE. Authorized instructors utilizing an FAA-approved ATD for airmen training, pilot time, and experience requirements are required to log the time as dual instruction and as basic aviation training device (BATD) or advanced aviation training device (AATD) time appropriately. Any columns that reference flight time should remain blank when logging ATD time. Simulated instrument time can be logged in an ATD, but only during the time when the visual component of the training session is configured for instrument meteorological conditions (IMC) and the pilot is maintaining control solely by reference to the flight instruments. Logging time in this fashion will allow a pilot to credit this time towards the aeronautical experience and recent experience requirements as specified in 14 CFR part 61 or 141. It is required under part 61, § 61.51(b)(1)(iv) that the type and identification of the ATD be included in the logging of pilot time as described in the letter of authorization (LOA). It is the responsibility of the flight instructor, student, or certificated pilot to verify the device is qualified and approved for training or experience requirements. It would be appropriate for the person using the ATD to retain a copy of the LOA.


Bob Gardner
I'm guessing no, but...

I am using an FAA-approved ATD which the FAA now says I can use to log instrument currency time, with or without an instructor. Question: In my logbook, is this properly booked as PIC time or just total time?

Thanks in advance for the help.

P.S. - Sorry about typo in Subject line...not sure how to fix that!

From AC 61-136A:

3. LOGGING TRAINING TIME AND EXPERIENCE. Authorized instructors utilizing an FAA-approved ATD for airmen training, pilot time, and experience requirements are required to log the time as dual instruction and as basic aviation training device (BATD) or advanced aviation training device (AATD) time appropriately. Any columns that reference flight time should remain blank when logging ATD time. Simulated instrument time can be logged in an ATD, but only during the time when the visual component of the training session is configured for instrument meteorological conditions (IMC) and the pilot is maintaining control solely by reference to the flight instruments. Logging time in this fashion will allow a pilot to credit this time towards the aeronautical experience and recent experience requirements as specified in 14 CFR part 61 or 141. It is required under part 61, § 61.51(b)(1)(iv) that the type and identification of the ATD be included in the logging of pilot time as described in the letter of authorization (LOA). It is the responsibility of the flight instructor, student, or certificated pilot to verify the device is qualified and approved for training or experience requirements. It would be appropriate for the person using the ATD to retain a copy of the LOA.

Bob Gardner
 
I am using an FAA-approved ATD which the FAA now says I can use to log instrument currency time, with or without an instructor. Question: In my logbook, is this properly booked as PIC time or just total time?

Thanks in advance for the help.

P.S. - Sorry about typo in Subject line...not sure how to fix that!

It's not PIC and it's not Total Time either if "Total Time" means "Pilot Time" as "Pilot Time" is defined in 61.1 and only allows ATD time to count when it's training received from an authorized instructor.

Pilot time means that time in which a person—
(i) Serves as a required pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, full flight simulator, flight training device, or aviation training device; or
(iii) Gives training as an authorized instructor in an aircraft, full flight simulator, flight training device, or aviation training device.

While you can indeed use "solo ATD" experience to count toward instrument currency nowadays, that's the only thing it counts for. Since it can't be used for anything else, in my view there is no point in including it in any total of any type of time.
 
It's not PIC and it's not Total Time either if "Total Time" means "Pilot Time" as "Pilot Time" is defined in 61.1 and only allows ATD time to count when it's training received from an authorized instructor.

Pilot time means that time in which a person—
(i) Serves as a required pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, full flight simulator, flight training device, or aviation training device; or
(iii) Gives training as an authorized instructor in an aircraft, full flight simulator, flight training device, or aviation training device.

While you can indeed use "solo ATD" experience to count toward instrument currency nowadays, that's the only thing it counts for. Since it can't be used for anything else, in my view there is no point in including it in any total of any type of time.
I personally only enter "total flight time" so didn't think of the definition of "pilot time." Great analysis.
 
...While you can indeed use "solo ATD" experience to count toward instrument currency nowadays, that's the only thing it counts for. Since it can't be used for anything else, in my view there is no point in including it in any total of any type of time.
I put it in the "FTD or Simulator" column.
 
Lyle Flick (rip) said that the time should be subtracted.


jMYgzI.jpg
 
To the best of my knowledge, the only non flying thing you can log PIC/flight time in is a level D sim

And even at that point I don’t log it outside of the checkride and that’s just to help me track currency
 
Reference should be AC 61.136B.

Bob
 
Back
Top