1090ES vs UAT

Hang 4

Hang 4

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Hang 4
My plane is fully ADSB compliant, but UAT only. GDL 88 ADSB, GTX327 transponder and Flightstream 210. It's also a Cherokee, so the ES requirement above 18k feet isn't an issue. I also have a GTN650, so I have a WAAS input.

What is the benefit of the dual capability of the 345? (ES and UAT in). Do my existing transponder and ADSB have trade value?

I would like to be able to fly in the Bahamas and perhaps other parts of the Caribbean as well as Canada. I also like the additional situational awareness of the traffic and if I understand it right, there is additional traffic data available with 1090ES.

Lastly, would the rebate apply if I'm replacing an existing ADSB? The previous owner put everything in and did it before the first round of rebates were available.
 
The plane can only ever have one ADS-B rebate. They track it by the tail number and owner.

1090ES would potentially show less traffic data, since it it TIS-A only. I say potentially because under a Bravo it's the same, but when you're out of coverage the lady with the English accent says "traffic not available." But re-reading you said dual. so, definitely no gain.

The only change I see for you in all this is opening up non-US destinations. Not sure how much that's worth to your bank account. :(
 
Was the 510 available on your 650 I saw were u at the 210
 
Tennis said:
Was the 510 available on your 650 I saw were u at the 210
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It was the previous owner that put in all the current avionics. So not sure if it was available and what the rationale for 210 vs 510. In general, it seemed the previous owner bought whatever the best option at the time was.
 
For me I’d want international options, not just because I fly outside our borders, but also because if I sell it opens the market of buyers a little more.
 
My understanding from conversing with AOPA a couple of weeks ago, is that there is no 1090 ES requirement for the Bahamas now. My Arrow also has UAT in/out ( GDL 88D/ GNS 530W/FS 210) only but another option I have looked at is to replace the KT 76A transponder with a 1090 ES unit and leave the UAT equipment as is. The KT 76A is fine now, but old and sooner or later will need to be replaced. I plan to keep up with ES requirements but, honestly, a non-turbo Arrow is never going above 18 K and probably never across the BIG ponds where ES is now required!!
 
My understanding is with UAT you can have an anonymous mode. 1090 you can’t. Not sure if that is something that is important to you.
 
Dual frequency capability allows you to see both UAT and 1090ES traffic directly. With UAT only, you get UAT traffic broadcast peer to peer, but 1090ES only traffic must be rebroadcast to you from a ground station. Don't know how much that matters in practice.
 
Canada ADS-B requirements have not been set as if a few weeks ago for altitude below 18k. AOPA and others are following TransCanada. So far TransCanada has seemed to be leaning in the direction of 1090ES ADS-B and not allowing overflight waivers or visiting without ADS-B 1090ES for the initial regulations.

Tim

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk
 
Hang 4 said:
My plane is fully ADSB compliant, but UAT only. GDL 88 ADSB, GTX327 transponder and Flightstream 210. It's also a Cherokee, so the ES requirement above 18k feet isn't an issue. I also have a GTN650, so I have a WAAS input.

What is the benefit of the dual capability of the 345? (ES and UAT in). Do my existing transponder and ADSB have trade value?

I would like to be able to fly in the Bahamas and perhaps other parts of the Caribbean as well as Canada. I also like the additional situational awareness of the traffic and if I understand it right, there is additional traffic data available with 1090ES.

Lastly, would the rebate apply if I'm replacing an existing ADSB? The previous owner put everything in and did it before the first round of rebates were available.
Click to expand...

We also have the GDL 88 in our C 210. We are in the same position as you with regard to considering a 1090ES “upgrade”.

I am not sure I correctly understand your concerns, but the GDL 88 is a “dual-link” tranceiver so it does receive all ADS-B equipped traffic (978 and 1090ES in) directly from planes in the area (with no ground station necessary.) The Garmin GDL 88 page states “the GDL 88 contains both receivers so you can see a comprehensive view of all ADS-B “Out” equipped targets”. When your system was installed the configuration should have been set to broadcast those capabilities to the UAT ground station so the only TIS-B traffic relayed would be those Mode C (or radar) targets the system has in your area. (If I understand it correctly and if the system actually works as stated...) Of course it is only broadcasting, as you mentioned, on UAT and will likely not ever be accepted anywhere outside the US. We fly to Mexico and will just attempt to avoid their ADS-B required areas for a while.

Unfortunately the GTX 327 is only worth a few hundred dollars at this point(maybe $400 typical) and the GDL 88 I am not sure about (maybe $1500 - $2000?)

As far as the rebate, the FAA says that if your plane has been seen previously with a class 2(?) transmitter previously, which the GDL 88 is, then you are not eligible for a rebate... Sounds like they don’t want to help us upgrade.

We will probably be waiting until after 2020 for any upgrade.
 
Thanks, I didn’t realize the dual in capability. Guess that just makes a trip to Canada potentially expensive.
 
Hang 4 said:
Thanks, I didn’t realize the dual in capability. Guess that just makes a trip to Canada potentially expensive.
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There is NO requirement for ADS-B out in Canada for GA at the moment, and won't be for some years.
When it does happen it will be 1090ES. And it will be satellite based, not ground station. Nav Canada is pushing for it, Transport Canada is not going along yet. The primary selling point for GA in Canada will be much improved tracking for S&R in remote regions.
The USA is the only jurisdiction with dual frequencies - nobody else is going that direction.
 
GRG55 said:
There is NO requirement for ADS-B out in Canada for GA at the moment, and won't be for some years.
When it does happen it will be 1090ES. And it will be satellite based, not ground station. Nav Canada is pushing for it, Transport Canada is not going along yet. The primary selling point for GA in Canada will be much improved tracking for S&R in remote regions.
The USA is the only jurisdiction with dual frequencies - nobody else is going that direction.
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Transport Canada was supposed to have released a report/guidance on when they will mandate ADS-B in Fall 2018. This was announced last year, when they received the recommendations from some other agencies/groups. I called AOPA government affairs, and also COPA (Canadian AOPA, https://copanational.org/); both basically gave me the same answer. Transport Canada is not moving quickly on ADS-B; and does not seem interested in UAT or waivers for US operators using UAT.

Tim
 
GRG55 said:
There is NO requirement for ADS-B out in Canada for GA at the moment, and won't be for some years.
When it does happen it will be 1090ES. And it will be satellite based, not ground station. Nav Canada is pushing for it, Transport Canada is not going along yet. The primary selling point for GA in Canada will be much improved tracking for S&R in remote regions.
The USA is the only jurisdiction with dual frequencies - nobody else is going that direction.
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I’m sure their pay to play ATC system had something to do with it too
 
James331 said:
I’m sure their pay to play ATC system had something to do with it too
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Nav Canada is the "pay to play" (as you call it) part of the aviation system. They are pushing ADS-B. The regulator, Transport Canada (equivalent to the FAA excluding ATC), isn't in as much of a hurry.

The Canadian Owners and Pilots Association (COPA) position is Nav Canada wants ADS-B Out to reduce spacing and improve routing for high-altitude, high-speed and long-range air traffic - the big iron. As it stands the current 1090ES proposals don't have much benefit for GA aircraft. COPA's view is Nav Canada should equip the GA fleet with ADS-B Out at their expense, and pay for it through the savings of removing radar installations and modernized navaids. COPA would also like to see ADS-B become the SAR tracking standard, and thus the elimination of ELTs which aren't all that reliable in any case.
 
GRG55 said:
Nav Canada is the "pay to play" (as you call it) part of the aviation system. They are pushing ADS-B. The regulator, Transport Canada (equivalent to the FAA excluding ATC), isn't in as much of a hurry.

The Canadian Owners and Pilots Association (COPA) position is Nav Canada wants ADS-B Out to reduce spacing and improve routing for high-altitude, high-speed and long-range air traffic - the big iron. As it stands the current 1090ES proposals don't have much benefit for GA aircraft. COPA's view is Nav Canada should equip the GA fleet with ADS-B Out at their expense, and pay for it through the savings of removing radar installations and modernized navaids. COPA would also like to see ADS-B become the SAR tracking standard, and thus the elimination of ELTs which aren't all that reliable in any case.
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Navcanada shouldn’t BS a BSer, and we all know the “S” in ADSB doesn’t stand for safety.
 
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