Everyone should be taught how to do spins and spin recovery.

My little Sonerai has never been spun. The design has demonstrated safe spin recovery. And, I know that Sonerai IIL's have routinely been spun in the past. But the PO of mine never spun it. And, there's no known record that the builder ever spun it. So, I'm doing the phase 1 spin card on this airplane. Pretty fun. Working up to it slowly. Just finished some refresher spin training. And, I just got the EAA's flight test book and pocket guide. Maybe I can get some video once I'm further along.
 
3 in the green said:
Spin/acro training lessons were the most impactful few lessons I ever had when I was a student. The confidence factor soared (in a good way). It resulted in so much better handling of the aircraft in almost every other phase of flight and the fearful mindset of the "unknown" was completely erased. Experiencing the sights, sounds, and feeling of a spin first hand is something every pilot should experience if it isn't a requirement.

The downside is suddenly wanting a Pitts (or other flavor of similar capability...)!
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True that!

I had spin training a few weeks ago and what an eye opener! The first one was "OH SH_T!", but, after 5-6 more with me PIC, i was glad i had it. I think i now have a far better chance of recovery if it ever happens during my flying.

Like 3 in the green say's, Now i want a Pitts or something there of......
 
Ed Sokol said:
True that!

I had spin training a few weeks ago and what an eye opener! The first one was "OH SH_T!", but, after 5-6 more with me PIC, i was glad i had it. I think i now have a far better chance of recovery if it ever happens during my flying.

Like 3 in the green say's, Now i want a Pitts or something there of......
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But will it happen in cruise, at altitude? Not likely. It's much more likely to occur close to the ground, where you are already flying at a high angle of attack, and recovery will happen at a negative number AGL. I mean, recovery of the wreckage.
But if you want to spin, do so. I did, until I was comfortable with it.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
But will it happen in cruise, at altitude? Not likely. It's much more likely to occur close to the ground, where you are already flying at a high angle of attack, and recovery will happen at a negative number AGL. I mean, recovery of the wreckage.
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Unless you recover above the ground, which is the purpose of spin training.
 
Salty said:
I’m doing stalls in my mooney now, which my transition instructor didn’t even want to do. It’s actually more docile than a 172 IMO, but I am careful to keep coordinated, as I hear nothing good about spinning a mooney.
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Don Kaye has an article on his website from when he used to make Mooney students perform a full stall. Then one held it a little too long . . . And he no longer requires full stalls.

The FAA quit requiring spin training for PPL students because too many students, CFIs and Flight Examiners were dying. Back in the good old days, it was decided too many people were being killed by spins-gone-wrong. Thus it was removed from the PPL curriculum, and the death rate declined.

So since many of the training planes are the same, what has changed to make PPL spin training suddenly safer???
 
I did not do spin training before completing my PPL. I do plan on getting it done some day soon.
 
Our school doesn't do spins. I plan to get it done at a tail dragger school soon after getting PPL.
 
I haven't been pay attention. Is this another one of those threads where someone wants to make a rule to control and burden other people?
 
Hank S said:
Don Kaye has an article on his website from when he used to make Mooney students perform a full stall. Then one held it a little too long . . . And he no longer requires full stalls.

The FAA quit requiring spin training for PPL students because too many students, CFIs and Flight Examiners were dying. Back in the good old days, it was decided too many people were being killed by spins-gone-wrong. Thus it was removed from the PPL curriculum, and the death rate declined.

So since many of the training planes are the same, what has changed to make PPL spin training suddenly safer???
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I was curious and looked up the article. It's here.

To clarify (assuming I found the right article), he was having his students perform cross-controlled (skidding) stalls.
 
Sam D said:
I was curious and looked up the article. It's here.

To clarify (assuming I found the right article), he was having his students perform cross-controlled (skidding) stalls.
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That was an interesting read, but I really wonder what he was thinking was going to happen when he was having people add pro spin control inputs in while stalling the airplane. It doesn't seem like good judgment.

On a similar note, I do essentially the same exercise with people when I provide spin training. But I do it in an airplane approved for spins and know what the outcome will be.
 
I did not do spin training for my PPL. Got in early part of 2000. I currently fly a 182 and I don’t think we are allowed to intentionally spin that.
So what if I wanted to do some spin training jus to get the feel of it. And hopefully learn what to do. Agree base to final is about avoiding spin and not recovering.
At this point I’d have to find a place that does acro training right??
 
mondtster said:
That was an interesting read, but I really wonder what he was thinking was going to happen when he was having people add pro spin control inputs in while stalling the airplane. It doesn't seem like good judgment.

On a similar note, I do essentially the same exercise with people when I provide spin training. But I do it in an airplane approved for spins and know what the outcome will be.
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That was a stupid pilot trick on the part of the instructor
 
From the linked AOPA article: "Spins were deleted from the requirements for a private pilot certificate in June 1949, and the accident rate from spins has been decreasing ever since." No need for spins, unless for fun.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
From the linked AOPA article: "Spins were deleted from the requirements for a private pilot certificate in June 1949, and the accident rate from spins has been decreasing ever since." No need for spins, unless for fun.
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So what has been done to reduce spin accidents since 1950 or 1951?
 
MauleSkinner said:
So what has been done to reduce spin accidents since 1950 or 1951?
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Well, it was drummed into my head 40+ years ago to not stall, and then again 20+ years ago on my second "session" of flying. It's even possible that mandatory spins gave some people a bit too much confidence.
 
If you have a spinable plane at altitude like one of the planes I trained in (152) spins are completely benign. All you have to do is let go of the controls and it comes out by itself.
I don't understand why you wouldn't do spin training. Always best to have the lesson before the test........
Spin training/recovery is NOT taught to learn to recover from them at pattern altitudes.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Well, it was drummed into my head 40+ years ago to not stall, and then again 20+ years ago on my second "session" of flying. It's even possible that mandatory spins gave some people a bit too much confidence.
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So how many of the spin accidents in 2017 were attributed to the pre-1949 spin requirement?
 
Clip4 said:
“Pilots who believe that aerobatic training will enable a recovery from an inadvertent spin in the traffic pattern are fooling themselves”

Yes, I agree.
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Cirrus Engineers said you can't recover from a spin in the pattern and essentially you should pull the chute. They estimate that with immediate correction, you could recover without the chute in 1200', which doesn't help since we start the traffic pattern at 1000' and descend on base, so we would be a lot lower than that on a base to final turn. A lot of airplanes will recover faster than that, but I doubt anyone would recover from an inadvertent spin in the pattern.

Cirrus Engineer "The parachute has a connection to spins in that if you get into one, it is the means of recovery you should use."
 
Lowflynjack said:
Cirrus Engineers said you can't recover from a spin in the pattern and essentially you should pull the chute. They estimate that with immediate correction, you could recover without the chute in 1200', which doesn't help since we start the traffic pattern at 1000' and descend on base, so we would be a lot lower than that on a base to final turn. A lot of airplanes will recover faster than that, but I doubt anyone would recover from an inadvertent spin in the pattern.

Cirrus Engineer "The parachute has a connection to spins in that if you get into one, it is the means of recovery you should use."
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In a Cirrus at pattern altitude, if you spin and attempt to recover using PARE and fail, pull the chute. At least your body might not be in view of the gawking public.
 
Clip4 said:
“Pilots who believe that aerobatic training will enable a recovery from an inadvertent spin in the traffic pattern are fooling themselves”

Yes, I agree.
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I agree, too, because Pilots who intentionally hold an inadvertent spin in the pattern for three turns probably deserve to die.

At least, that's how the data supports the premise.
 
benyflyguy said:
I did not do spin training for my PPL. Got in early part of 2000. I currently fly a 182 and I don’t think we are allowed to intentionally spin that.
So what if I wanted to do some spin training jus to get the feel of it. And hopefully learn what to do. Agree base to final is about avoiding spin and not recovering.
At this point I’d have to find a place that does acro training right??
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Yes. I did a couple of upset recovery sessions in a super decathlon. I would recommend it.
Here is one place to start looking. https://www.iac.org/aerobatic-flight-schools/USA
 
MauleSkinner said:
So do you actually have any relevant data to support your position, or are you merely promoting ignorance and fear?
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No ignorance or fear, but the FAA and folks like AOPA Air Safety study this stuff. Stall recognition and avoidance training is superior to stall recover training and has been the preferred training for the last 50+ years.
 
Clip4 said:
No ignorance or fear, but the FAA and folks like AOPA Air Safety study this stuff. Stall recognition and avoidance training is superior to stall recover training and has been the preferred training for the last 50+ years.
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But you say that spin training is a waste of time (contrary to the experience of others here, as well as the article you linked), specifically a waste of time prior to the Private certificate (again, contrary to the experience of others here), that spin recovery in the pattern is impossible (still contrary to the experience of others here, including saves by pilots whose only spin training was prior to the Private certificate) using a linked article that is, at best innacurately applying data, but more likely is intentionally misleading, and then contradict that article yourself by stating that other factors have more effect on the accident rate than the elimination of the spin training requirement.

How would you categorize it, if not promoting ignorance and fear?
 
MauleSkinner said:
But you say that spin training is a waste of time (contrary to the experience of others here, as well as the article you linked), specifically a waste of time prior to the Private certificate (again, contrary to the experience of others here), that spin recovery in the pattern is impossible (still contrary to the experience of others here, including saves by pilots whose only spin training was prior to the Private certificate) using a linked article that is, at best innacurately applying data, but more likely is intentionally misleading, and then contradict that article yourself by stating that other factors have more effect on the accident rate than the elimination of the spin training requirement.

How would you categorize it, if not promoting ignorance and fear?
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I just trust my own experiance and the opinion of the FAA over yours.
 
I never had any spin training until I trained myself. I know that I am a more
aware and careful pilot as a result.
 
I keep saying this and no one listens... feels like being married again


straight in for ALL landings.
 
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