I'm considering different paths to completing my multi-engine commercial add-on, CFII, and MEI. One option that I am considering is completing my multi commercial add-on, then do my CFII training in a multi-engine as well as my MEI training to get my 15 hours multi PIC before doing my MEI checkride. My question is, can I take my CFII checkride first without being an MEI, or will I need to be an MEI in order to do the CFII checkride in a multi-engine airplane? Part 61 only states that you have to have an aircraft category and class rating on your commercial or ATP certificate for the instructor rating being sought. I would have my multi-engine commercial complete at that time, so the way I interpret the regulation is that I can, but I've seen a lot of conflicting discussions online about this. I will not be doing any instruction between the time I complete my CFII and MEI; just doing the checkrides. Thanks for your help.
CFII and MEI
- Thread starter flannelw
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Unlike the instrument rating on the pilot certificate which requires you to do a single engine approach to get multiengine privs, there's no such requirement for the instrument rating for the instructor certificate (nor in the multiengine class add-on).
So how I've described the training above would work then? I can get my multi add-on, then complete my CFII including checkride, and then do my MEI?
NKTFlyer
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What is you just do your CFII and MEI training in the twin, then take the MEI check ride before the CFII check ride? That way you get your value-added PIC time, AND you don't have to get into a 1 circle flat scissors fight with the examiner before the oral even starts.
Yes, it makes no difference as to which you do first. They are completely independent ratings both in certification standards and privileges.
I’ve thought about that and will probably end up doing it. I’m not too worried about gaining more multi PIC, but was thinking more about cost savings. By doing the CFII before the MEI, I could save around $450 to $500 because the checkride time would count toward the 15 hours PIC for MEI. If I did the MEI first, I’ll have to fly an additional hour and a half to two hours to make up that time the checkride could have counted as. Just going over all the possibilities.
Clip4
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I see a pink slip in your future.
You're probably right. That's why I've had the same 70 hour a week job for eleven continuous years since I was 18, employee of the month 71 times, and crew training director for the past eight years. But yeah, I'm not a reliable, good worker at all. I'm in no way capable of thinking outside the normal procedures to find a better, more effective way of accomplishing tasks. I better get used to saying, "would you like fries with that?" because you are the God of all aviators and if you say that I should be preparing for a pink slip in the future, then I guess my time in the skies are limited because Clip4 has spoken.
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Clip4
Final Approach
You're probably right. That's why I've had the same 70 hour a week job for eleven continuous years since I was 18, employee of the month 71 times, and crew training director for the past eight years. But yeah, I'm not a reliable, good worker at all. I'm in no way capable of thinking outside the normal procedures to find a better, more effective way of accomplishing tasks. I better get used to saying, "would you like fries with that?" because you are the God of all aviators and if you say that I should be preparing for a pink slip in the future, then I guess my time in the skies are limited because Clip4 has spoken.
Wow, a 29 year old know it all, who is also a terribly under qualified and over worked crew training director. What could possibly go wrong?
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I am not talking about experience. And no where did I say that I was going to instruct as an MEI as soon as I completed the training. In fact, I don't even plan on instructing as an MEI until many, many years down the road such as after retirement age and I'm instructing because I want to, not because I need to. However, I am wanting to get it done now so that is one less thing that I will need to worry about later on. Plus it looks good on a resume regardless if you are actually instructing or not. So, back to the original post; I am wanting to get the multi add-on, CFII, and MEI done all within a close timeframe and all I was asking was if I were to do CFII in a multi-engine airplane, do I need my MEI first or could I do the CFII checkride before the MEI checkride. Just a simple question, right? We didn't need the Peanut Gallery giving their opinion because as you can see, your assumption that I would be instructing as an MEI with very little multi experience is far from the truth. So next time, get the full story behind someone's intentions before attacking them because now, the original poster isn't the one that looks like an idiot.
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Clip4
Final Approach
Actually, I don’t attack you at all. With your plan you have a high risk of failure on the test because you are trying to short the experiance below the normal and an examiner looking at your logbook is going to realize it before to oral starts. Add to this your normal work week and you are going to have a tough row to hoe.
You can’t buy experiance.
"I see a pink slip in your future." That's quite insulting to someone such as myself who has dedicated their entire life (despite how short it's been) to aviation and has close to 3,000 hours. But it is all in ASEL. So I'm wanting a career change and I need multi-engine commercial and MEI to make it. So, I appreciate your concern, I truly do. But as long as I can meet standards, which I'm sure I can, I'll be happy. I have the instruction experience under my belt already, so I'm not too concern with that. But I am just a snowflake millennial who needs to go to his safe space now
(I'm joking)
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James331
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James331
If you’re a CPL/CFI many flight schools will work a deal with you for those add ons, especially as CFIs get more scarce
Hold the phone, you have 3000hrs, and you NEED to go back to CFIing?
Something smells funny here
"I see a pink slip in your future." That's quite insulting to someone such as myself who has dedicated their entire life (despite how short it's been) to aviation and has close to 3,000 hours. But it is all in ASEL. So I'm wanting a career change and I need multi-engine commercial and MEI to make it. So, I appreciate your concern, I truly do. But as long as I can meet standards, which I'm sure I can, I'll be happy. I have the instruction experience under my belt already, so I'm not too concern with that. But I am just a snowflake millennial who needs to go to his safe space now
Hold the phone, you have 3000hrs, and you NEED to go back to CFIing?
Something smells funny here
Yes both commercial SEL and CFI.
I'm wanting to go corporate, but I don't have my multi. Everything is in singles. So I need to get that done and I figured I'd go ahead and get the MEI done as well as CFII. Once I get those, I should be in a competitive position.
Oh I could. But it would be in something like a PC12 or a Caravan. Cape Air wouldn't even hire me right now since I don't have a commercial multi.
James331
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So why not get a six figure Pilatus job and MEI on the side to get your ME time, no need to live like a bum with 3k hrs
Cape is not a good choice, fun flying but legit you’d be better flying for a DZ minus the whole quasi 121 time thing
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
At the flight school I went to everyone was doing the II and MEI concurrently. Until it was time for me. The person in front of me was practicing gear up landings and that plane was the only multi in the flight school.
ja_user
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You are overthinking this. If you are a reasonably proficient CFI and reasonablly proficient II then the CFII add on won't take much time. Like 5 hours, or something. It really won't matter.
I would just do it the normal way, add the CFII, do the MEL add on in 5-10 hours.. Then swap safety pilot time with someone else working on Multi hours, get 12 PIC MEL and do the 3 hours training for MEI.
If you don't approach the Commercial MEL with a CFI mindset, or you have a ****ty teacher, you are going to need the extra MEL time to get your head on straight for teaching MEI.
The more Multi time the better, up to a point. It isn't going to matter whether it is before your MEI or not. Get 25, 50, or 100 Multi PIC depending on what you are looking for..
The CFII when you are already a CFI will help you build time, if you really want to instruct while working on other stuff.
I would just do it the normal way, add the CFII, do the MEL add on in 5-10 hours.. Then swap safety pilot time with someone else working on Multi hours, get 12 PIC MEL and do the 3 hours training for MEI.
If you don't approach the Commercial MEL with a CFI mindset, or you have a ****ty teacher, you are going to need the extra MEL time to get your head on straight for teaching MEI.
The more Multi time the better, up to a point. It isn't going to matter whether it is before your MEI or not. Get 25, 50, or 100 Multi PIC depending on what you are looking for..
The CFII when you are already a CFI will help you build time, if you really want to instruct while working on other stuff.
That's definitely on the to do list. But I might as well do the other stuff while building the multi hours needed for the ATP.
ja_user
Pattern Altitude
I can be, but for about 3 years now thats an extra $5k in the ground school CPL on top of everything else. Let the employer pay for the MEL CTP, as part of any type rating or insurance requirement.
Ryan F.
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Ryan Ferguson 1974
I agree, this is eminently doable and you may be over-analyzing... which all of us are wont to do at some point in our training arc.
I think I understand where you stand and where you're going, but it took me the whole thread to piece it all together, so if my understanding about your situation is wrong, please point it out.
Here's my summary. You're already a CFI-ASE. You have no multi-engine rating. That's the standout issue here.
It's not unreasonable to shoot for one day, two checkrides: CP-AMEL in the morning, and CFI-AME in the afternoon. Or one day after the other.
You can then do your CFI-IA at your leisure.
I can't think of a reason to do them in a different order... if you're going for all of these ratings on your pilot (CP) and instructor (CFI) certificate.
Unfortunately the ATP-ME is no small order considering the CTP requirement. You will also need to gain hours in a multi-engine airplane to meet the requirements of 14 CFR 61.159.
I think I understand where you stand and where you're going, but it took me the whole thread to piece it all together, so if my understanding about your situation is wrong, please point it out.
Here's my summary. You're already a CFI-ASE. You have no multi-engine rating. That's the standout issue here.
It's not unreasonable to shoot for one day, two checkrides: CP-AMEL in the morning, and CFI-AME in the afternoon. Or one day after the other.
You can then do your CFI-IA at your leisure.
I can't think of a reason to do them in a different order... if you're going for all of these ratings on your pilot (CP) and instructor (CFI) certificate.
Unfortunately the ATP-ME is no small order considering the CTP requirement. You will also need to gain hours in a multi-engine airplane to meet the requirements of 14 CFR 61.159.
ja_user
Pattern Altitude
You can't to the Multi instructor the same day as the Commercial Multi, because you need 15hrs Multi PIC to take the MEI checkride...
I guess technically their are hours in the day, but still..
I guess technically their are hours in the day, but still..
Kenny Phillips
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I'd assume that most would have 15+ hours multi PIC by the time they took commercial multi—or does everyone just fly with an instructor before the practical?
Ryan F.
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That is true. Fair point.
I tend to see private multi moving to commercial multi, so the 15 PIC is often not an issue. Not typical everywhere, however.
That is quite unusual these days, with only a few exceptions.
Unless you own the airplane, good luck finding an outfit that will rent a multi to a solo student.
Ryan F.
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Depends on the region and the kind of clientele is working with. In some areas it's more common than others.
Yep, that's why the "performing the PIC duties with a CFI dummy" was added to the regs. To get Multi PIC time, you can get the class rating on your pilot certificate and then fly with the instructor and get sole-manipulator PIC time.
ja_user
Pattern Altitude
Yeah, I don't see a lot of Multi Privates, occasionally they come up. And almost always they have a Comm SEL and want to do the Multi Add on..
If you are working with the airline or bust crowd, you may see it more. But most jobs now don't require the multi time that they once did.
We will rent multi to anyone with a checkout and license, AFTER they have their license. I suppose technically the FBO would rent it for solo pre cert, but no instructor gives the solo endorsement to allow it. There just isn't any need to do it pre license as opposed to after.
If you are working with the airline or bust crowd, you may see it more. But most jobs now don't require the multi time that they once did.
We will rent multi to anyone with a checkout and license, AFTER they have their license. I suppose technically the FBO would rent it for solo pre cert, but no instructor gives the solo endorsement to allow it. There just isn't any need to do it pre license as opposed to after.
Kritchlow
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Well that depends. At least in my experience if you choose to go regional airline, yes they will pay for it.
Corporate *jet* on the other hand, will most certainly want an ATP before they look at your resume.
Yes, there are always exceptions.