Another T-38 down... :(

And one confirmed fatality, one in the hospital. ---k, another one in just under a year. This was a night sortie by the looks of it (not every week is night week in UPT). This makes five crashes in a year for the T-38. I was statistically less likely to get killed in the combat Air Force, if that tells you anything.

Nickle on the grass, and I'm running out of nickles this year....:(:( Condolences to the DLF families tonight and what will be another somber week going forward.
 
My brother's last assignment was as a -38 PIT IP. I'm glad he's not flying that anymore...

Nickel on the grass...

RIP
 
I fly very near T-38 traffic weekly on some photo runs. It concerns me more for the pilots on board than it does for my crew, but the thought of it becoming unguided isn't cool. I love the T-38, grew up watching them under the flight patterns at Randolph AFB but this last year has left me pretty sad for them and their pilots.
 
USAF will officially release the name here in due time; I've been informed this morning. Absolutely heart-ripping for me. A great dude is gone, young man with so much ahead of him. As a crusty O-4 it really hits home that this business is unforgiving, and I realize how clueless I was as a UPT student many moons ago. Timing and luck my friends, timing and luck.

I took the morning to go take my kiddo to school today, because ----k it, this life is not owed to anyone. I'm forever appreciative, in days like today, of the strength of my wife. Not letting the in-your-face-nature to my job get in the way of taking care of business when it comes to our son, and her education/career aspirations.

Details will be released in due time. We know some of the bigger pieces already by virtue of being so close to DLF ourselves. Hell I just barely left the place in the summer. All I am at liberty to share with you all at this time is that no student pilots were involved, so all the baby chickens are accounted for. Doesn't make it any easier to process for the -38 instructor cadre. We're getting hit hard this year.

Praying for our second dude to recover, more to follow. I can't believe I have to use this twice in one year.....

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As someone with a lot of buddies flying T-38s (and with a bit of -38 time myself), I was saddened when I got a text about it last night.

It has, indeed, been a bad year.
 
Sluggo63 said:
My brother's last assignment was as a -38 PIT IP. I'm glad he's not flying that anymore...

Nickel on the grass...

RIP
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You're telling me brother. Wife keeps asking me when does the T-X get here. I have every intention in partaking in the initial cadre for the T-X. Very much looking forward to lending my experience to furthering the transition to that F404 powered beast, and it's a beast. Yet in all other respects a ***** cat to fly compared to the mighty Talon. Better performance and much slower landing speeds. Funny how when you put actual wings on airplanes they tend to land better LOL. Humor is my defense mechanism these days...

At any rate, yes, it's time to put the 'ol gal to pasture. Right yesterday. I digress.

Bill Jennings said:
Another Aux gearbox incident?
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No. I can't expand beyond that right now.
 
hindsight2020 said:
USAF will officially release the name here in due time; I've been informed this morning. Absolutely heart-ripping for me. A great dude is gone, young man with so much ahead of him. As a crusty O-4 it really hits home that this business is unforgiving, and I realize how clueless I was as a UPT student many moons ago. Timing and luck my friends, timing and luck.

I took the morning to go take my kiddo to school today, because ----k it, this life is not owed to anyone. I'm forever appreciative, in days like today, of the strength of my wife. Not letting the in-your-face-nature to my job get in the way of taking care of business when it comes to our son, and her education/career aspirations.

Details will be released in due time. We know some of the bigger pieces already by virtue of being so close to DLF ourselves. Hell I just barely left the place in the summer. All I am at liberty to share with you all at this time is that no student pilots were involved, so all the baby chickens are accounted for. Doesn't make it any easier to process for the -38 instructor cadre. We're getting hit hard this year.

Praying for our second dude to recover, more to follow. I can't believe I have to use this twice in one year.....

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First and foremost, my condolences and thank you for your service to our country. In my line of work, I know the feeling all too well of losing a brother/sister. I would imagine that given the elite class you folks are in to operate fighters, it’s even more pronounced. In your case it also sounds like he was a friend, which obviously is much worse, especially if it was something preventable.

Again my condolences.
 
Sad news.
A good flying ship, but when they break, they bite hard.
Five down in the last year, and the replacement is still 4 years away.
 
Names released. Rest in Peace Trojan. You would have made a great fighter pilot. Amazing charisma, distinguished member of the FAIP mafia, great all around dude and work ethic. Kid could run that 1.5 PT test in under 9:00. I still remember trying to pace him the first lap, next thing I know the damn cat is lapping me on the 4th one. Son of a.... You will be sorely missed brother. Much too soon, the community is a lesser place without you. Nickle on the grass.
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(Stuck's flag a year ago, where he partook in the memorial). Now we have to do the same for him.The irony hits a bit close right now.

A moment to offer thoughts as well for our friend Sh'ootr Palyok, who is still with us and recovering. This young man has gone through a lot himself. Widower to a young wife to cancer last year, around the same time of Stuck's death no less. It's been a tough road to get back on the saddle for this young man, and he has displayed incredible resilience in getting on and onward with life in spite of such a life altering event. To have this occur less than a year later feels heavy even for me as a mere witness.

Graz's memorial I'm told will occur at KDLF on Wednesday 21st, since Tuesday would have been the anniversary of Stuck's crash; leadership felt it needed its own day in order to allow folks to process things in their own space. We'll see if we can get a RND contingent up that way. Otherwise I'm certainly taking the trusty Arrow up there in order to be there to honor our fallen Brother.

I'll try to add an update here if anything pops up with regards to the surviving families. The details of the crash will be known in due time, let's hope there is more transparency this time than wrt Stuck's crash last year. And I'll digress before I start foaming at the mouth about that one again.

Everybody stay safe out there. We're all here, military or not, as part of a small brotherhood of humans who have tasted flight under our own hands. It is an incredibly privileged experience, albeit unnatural for us hairless monkeys. It is indeed a risky endeavor, but one I think we can agree is worth risking in order to Live for. Our brother Graz would have agreed I think; I saw his eyes light up looking forward to that Viper assignment. He knew, and I knew, he was one of the lucky ones. So I honor him today and every day forward, by breathing in deep, teaching my son by example that life is indeed worth sacrificing for, sack up and take to skies yet again. I'm certain he would have done the same if given the luxury of tomorrow.

Here's to ya Brother..
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Something just a bit more painful, when loosing someone so young. . .plus a bit more, loosing them young and in the act of training to protect us. Prayers to ease the heartache of his family and his fellows. . .
 
We operate close enough to T-38 areas to see them at this kind of camera range - many times I have wished I could meet some of the guys we see in the air. Will pray for the family of the one and the recovery of the other.
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hindsight2020 said:
Names released. Rest in Peace Trojan. You would have made a great fighter pilot. Amazing charisma, distinguished member of the FAIP mafia, great all around dude and work ethic. Kid could run that 1.5 PT test in under 9:00. I still remember trying to pace him the first lap, next thing I know the damn cat is lapping me on the 4th one. Son of a.... You will be sorely missed brother. Much too soon, the community is a lesser place without you. Nickle on the grass.
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(Stuck's flag a year ago, where he partook in the memorial). Now we have to do the same for him.The irony hits a bit close right now.

A moment to offer thoughts as well for our friend Sh'ootr Palyok, who is still with us and recovering. This young man has gone through a lot himself. Widower to a young wife to cancer last year, around the same time of Stuck's death no less. It's been a tough road to get back on the saddle for this young man, and he has displayed incredible resilience in getting on and onward with life in spite of such a life altering event. To have this occur less than a year later feels heavy even for me as a mere witness.

Graz's memorial I'm told will occur at KDLF on Wednesday 21st, since Tuesday would have been the anniversary of Stuck's crash; leadership felt it needed its own day in order to allow folks to process things in their own space. We'll see if we can get a RND contingent up that way. Otherwise I'm certainly taking the trusty Arrow up there in order to be there to honor our fallen Brother.

I'll try to add an update here if anything pops up with regards to the surviving families. The details of the crash will be known in due time, let's hope there is more transparency this time than wrt Stuck's crash last year. And I'll digress before I start foaming at the mouth about that one again.

Everybody stay safe out there. We're all here, military or not, as part of a small brotherhood of humans who have tasted flight under our own hands. It is an incredibly privileged experience, albeit unnatural for us hairless monkeys. It is indeed a risky endeavor, but one I think we can agree is worth risking in order to Live for. Our brother Graz would have agreed I think; I saw his eyes light up looking forward to that Viper assignment. He knew, and I knew, he was one of the lucky ones. So I honor him today and every day forward, by breathing in deep, teaching my son by example that life is indeed worth sacrificing for, sack up and take to skies yet again. I'm certain he would have done the same if given the luxury of tomorrow.

Here's to ya Brother..
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That sucks. My condolences. Turns out he was one of my brother's Studs at PIT. Great dude by all accounts. Nickel...
 
flyer770 said:
If visiting a grave of a fighter pilot, you leave a nickel as a sign of respect. Came from a Korean War song.
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Lots of stories around the tradition, but the song itself likely got lifted from the "Salvation Army Song." It has the line, "Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Throw a nickel on the drum, save another drunken bum."

advance to 2:50

Leaving coins at gravesites, though, is an old OLD tradition. Once upon a time, coins were left so the deceased could pay the ferryman to get him across the river Styx in the underworld. Cavers like myself know the story of Floyd Collins who died trapped in a Kentucky cave, and we leave a few coins and some chocolate at his grave - the price of admission to the commercial show cave he once operated, and his favorite snack.
 
Half Fast said:
Lots of stories around the tradition, but the song itself likely got lifted from the "Salvation Army Song."
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Yep. There's no special symbolism to the gesture beyond what you described, and the fact that "grass" was a word that rhymed with the posterior.
 
Sorry to hear man. 38 in my graduation class and 3 are dead and 1 has a TBI (blade strike to head) from the business. A very unforgiving business.

RIP
 
Condolences and sorry for your loss...
 
I’m sorry. It’s hard to lose a friend and comrade, especially one so young. When you remember him, I hope it’s often and always with a smile.
 
Horrible news and hits close to home. I fly through the Vance AFB MOA on the regular. A few weeks ago I scooted through the Vance MOA and there were four T-38's playing around near me.
 
Ugh. Stand by for more, fellas. We're here, again. :( Identities will not be released immediately, but we know who they are. Ditto for some of the details of the incident. Nickel on the grass....

Everybody stay honest out there.

P.S. Yes, the wife did ask when I was going airlines. LOL Moment of levity in the middle of this emotional topic for my wife. Humor is our coping mechanism. Joking aside I am human, and my mortality does not escape me. One day at a time, is all we can do.
 
Just based on the released photo, a strange accident.
 
Craig said:
Just based on the released photo, a strange accident.
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Yeah, just by looking at the photo and what was said in the press release it sounds like maybe it was a formation landing gone wrong. Sad.
 
Shepherd said:
Five down in the last year, and the replacement is still 4 years away.
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That is unacceptable. What happened to the industry since WWII? The P-51 prototype was rolled out in 102 DAYS.

And then there's Boeing. Don't get me started on that.
 
Piperonca said:
That is unacceptable. What happened to the industry since WWII? The P-51 prototype was rolled out in 102 DAYS.
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What's happened is the injection of so many and such detailed specifications coupled with the desire to inspect to the exact specification. Even with the move to COTS's specifications, there is an incredible amount of paper or electronic data that gets generated.
 
Piperonca said:
That is unacceptable. What happened to the industry since WWII?
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Yeah, I’m sure if we started rolling out designs in 120 days we could get the accident rate right up there with WW2 numbers too - where you were statistically more likely to die in an accident than get shot down. Yeah, those sure were the good old days alright.

:eyeroll:
 
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Piperonca said:
That is unacceptable. What happened to the industry since WWII? The P-51 prototype was rolled out in 102 DAYS.
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And it was expected to last about 1/2 that amount of time in combat. There was a time when aviators expected to fly 4-5 different single mission platforms in a career. Now they planes are expected to last decades and be upgradeable. Don't blame the mfg - blame the system.
 
Craig said:
What's happened is the injection of so many and such detailed specifications coupled with the desire to inspect to the exact specification. Even with the move to COTS's specifications, there is an incredible amount of paper or electronic data that gets generated.
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The p-51’s spec was largely “A fighter which we can deliver sooner and which will perform better than the P-40’s you want.”

The engine was a known quantity and North American was able to go out and execute its plan without much oversight.

Properly managed, that process is very successful.

OTOH, extended development and big oversight tends to lead to spec changes (really, spec add’s), project bloat, and extended timeframes.
 
Piperonca said:
That is unacceptable. What happened to the industry since WWII? The P-51 prototype was rolled out in 102 DAYS.

And then there's Boeing. Don't get me started on that.
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It's not just airplanes. Remember, the Empire State Building was built in a year, and the Freedom Tower took seven. Regulatory hurdles.
 
hindsight2020 said:
P.S. Yes, the wife did ask when I was going airlines. LOL Moment of levity in the middle of this emotional topic for my wife. Humor is our coping mechanism. Joking aside I am human, and my mortality does not escape me. One day at a time, is all we can do.
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Stay safe out there man. I know you're getting close to retirement and I know you're holding your nose at the prospect of going 121 afterwards - but it's a good gig, brother. You're gonna miss the mission and the flying you're doing now, but even with kids - I think the job will take great care of you and your family. It won't be the burden you think it'll be.
 
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