Failed Color Vision test before CPL

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Kalwasinski892

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Kalwasinski892
Hey guys, this is my 1st post here and I’m really just looking for some input here.

I’m 19 with a PPL and currently enrolled in a part 141 program to obtain my IR and CPL in Daytona Beach FL. I hold a class 3 medical, and went to up it to a 1st class today as I should be starting my commercial within the next 2 months and just wanted piece of mind that I can get it........ well I couldn’t! I was told I could get it with a nighttime restriction or just keep my class 3 which I quickly realized was BS after digging into the FAR when I got home. So that sucks but it’s beside the point. So I currently have no medical but my biggest worry is taking this OVCT test as well as the MFT with an examiner. It’s just insane to think that if I fail it my dreams are crushed as I’ll never get the job I want with a nighttime restriction. Has anyone had experience with this recently? I’ve read in other places but couldn’t find anything too recent, but sorry if it’s already covered. I’m just going crazy here to think it all might go down the drain as there’s no 2nd chance. Sorry if I sound like a little girl I’m just honestly terrified right now haha.

Also feel that I should add that I never had any issue whatsoever flying at night with 20hrs of my 115 being night time. It was just those stupid cards with the colored dots I couldn’t read. Thanks for any input
 
Also if your wondering how I passed my 1st medical, that is a great question I’d love to know the answer to as well
 
There is more than one color vision test acceptable to the FAA.

The Pseudoisochromatic Plate Color Vision Test (sometimes referred to as the Ishihara Colored Dot Test) is one of the most common due to being the simplest to administer. However, it also is the one that often gets administered incorrectly, causing all sorts of worries for the airman. If the plates are old and faded, or the test not administered in full regular old daylight, there is the risk of not passing.

Our common answer for your dilemma is to make contact with Dr. Bruce Chien, via his website, http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/how-to-start.html

Hopefully he can advise you on what steps can be taken to get yourself sorted.
 
As the previous response stated, find the other acceptable plates and see if you can pass. They should not be administered under artificial light, but in broad daylight in order to be accurate. He is also correct in that many of the plates fade over time and the AME never bothers to update them or have the test presented outside. When I was an AME, I never failed anyone without testing them outside using all the acceptable color tests. If you find one you can pass, insist on using that on all subsequent testing. Good luck.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Another important question was whether you filled out the 8500 and provided the MID or had the AME do a consult for you. See http://tinyurl.com/AME-consult .
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I believe I filled my own out while doing MedXPress right? But my medical record is pretty clean minus 2 surgeries I was honest about. Why would that matter in this case exactly?
 
AggieMike88 said:
There is more than one color vision test acceptable to the FAA.

The Pseudoisochromatic Plate Color Vision Test (sometimes referred to as the Ishihara Colored Dot Test) is one of the most common due to being the simplest to administer. However, it also is the one that often gets administered incorrectly, causing all sorts of worries for the airman. If the plates are old and faded, or the test not administered in full regular old daylight, there is the risk of not passing.

Our common answer for your dilemma is to make contact with Dr. Bruce Chien, via his website, http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/how-to-start.html

Hopefully he can advise you on what steps can be taken to get yourself sorted.
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Thank you for your referral! The AME I used for this clearly did not know her stuff as she told me by turning down my class 1 with the night time limitation that I could still use my class 3. But also my fault for not looking into it before making my decision I guess.
 
I’m going to assume you were tried on the ishiharas. How ‘bout the Dvorines, Richmonds, AO and farnsworth lantern.

It you email me,I’ll send how the system will handle this.

OTOH this may be the time in your career to get the waiver and never see dots again...
 
I have trouble seeing the ishihara test under some types of artificial indoor lighting. In the sun light the colors pop out and slap me on the side of my head. I haven't tried the other test.

Do what Dr. Chien says and you will be Ok.

Do not let the.... ummm.... lets call them ''folks'' that are doing on the job training in a clinic touch you ever.
 
bbchien said:
I’m going to assume you were tried on the ishiharas. How ‘bout the Dvorines, Richmonds, AO and farnsworth lantern.

It you email me,I’ll send how the system will handle this.

OTOH this may be the time in your career to get the waiver and never see dots again...
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Yes I believe I was since I just googled the Ishihara Test and it looked identical. I shot you an email and would appreciate any help I can get as my training is now sidelined as I get this sorted. Thank you!
 
I got a Class 1 decades ago by flying with a GADO representative. We circled the tower at Opa Locka and I successfully identified aviation red, green and white. On that basis I was issued a Statement of Demonstrated Ability which enabled me to pass a Class 1. Each year I just presented that to renew my Class 1 or 2. Now flying under BasicMed, but I still have that SODA, which does not appear to expire.

It’s also worth remembering that even with a Class 1, an employer may look askance at an applicant with color vision deficiency. Or not.
 
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FastEddieB said:
I got a Class 1 decades ago by flying with a GADO representative. We circled the tower at Opa Locka and I successfully identified aviation red, green and white. On that basis I was issued a Statement of Demonstrated Ability which enabled me to pass a Class 1. Each year I just presented that to renew my Class 1 or 2. Now flying under BasicMed, but I still have that SODA, which does not appear to expire.

It’s also worth remembering that even with a Class 1, and employer may look askance at an applicant with color vision deficiency. Or not.
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I know a couple of people that demonstrated that they could see the tower signals, and that was that.
 
bbchien said:
I’m going to assume you were tried on the ishiharas. How ‘bout the Dvorines, Richmonds, AO and farnsworth lantern.

It you email me,I’ll send how the system will handle this.

OTOH this may be the time in your career to get the waiver and never see dots again...
Click to expand...


And if you fail the waiver you will NEVER be able to get that limitation off your ticket and that will all but end your aviation career.

Not worth the risk IMO.

Just to take the other tests, the dots are a joke of a test anyways.

Try this is one, it’s actually far more accurate than the dots, yet the FAa won’t let you use it....gotta love the FAA, but it should give you a idea of where you stand.

https://www.color-blindness.com/color-blindness-tests/#colorarrangementtest
 
Kalwasinski892 said:
I believe I filled my own out while doing MedXPress right? But my medical record is pretty clean minus 2 surgeries I was honest about. Why would that matter in this case exactly?
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Because if you filled out the MedExpress and provided the MID to the AME and it was entered by them, then your application has gone live per the FAA and if you don’t pass some type of color vision test and are denied, then you will not be able to even fly gliders or light sport aircraft.

Though this distinction doesn’t matter for getting a 2nd or 1st class and being employed as a pilot. The link explains more.

But you have done the important thing and contacted Dr. Chien.
 
James331 said:
And if you fail the waiver you will NEVER be able to get that limitation off your ticket and that will all but end your aviation career.

Not worth the risk IMO.

Just to take the other tests, the dots are a joke of a test anyways.

Try this is one, it’s actually far more accurate than the dots, yet the FAa won’t let you use it....gotta love the FAA, but it should give you a idea of where you stand.

https://www.color-blindness.com/color-blindness-tests/#colorarrangementtest
Click to expand...
James, BAD advice. We do so many mock LGSTs, sectional reads etc until the candidate knows he’s goong to pass. A guy in your stage of career, okay.....but those at the beginning....well I’ll put it this way: “millenials know how to prep for an exam” :).
 
Chaperral said:
As the previous response stated, find the other acceptable plates and see if you can pass. They should not be administered under artificial light, but in broad daylight in order to be accurate. He is also correct in that many of the plates fade over time and the AME never bothers to update them or have the test presented outside. When I was an AME, I never failed anyone without testing them outside using all the acceptable color tests. If you find one you can pass, insist on using that on all subsequent testing. Good luck.
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I've never u derstood why we are tested every two years for color blindness. It's genetic, you either are or aren't, it isn't something that "develops" like arthritis or you "catch" like the flu. Any ideas, or just more bureaucratic insensibility ("we have to test all new applicants, it would be hard for me to write instructions to not test everyone after the first time" stupidity)?
 
bbchien said:
James, BAD advice. We do so many mock LGSTs, sectional reads etc until the candidate knows he’s goong to pass. A guy in your stage of career, okay.....but those at the beginning....well I’ll put it this way: “millenials know how to prep for an exam” :).
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I guess if you can prep them well, just not sure I’d take that risk, especially if there was a semi local AME with a color test that worked better.
 
Most color blindness are genetic, but there are acquired(non heredity) color blind deficiencies as well, doubt if the FAA would drop the requirement. Not sure if basic med requires the applicant to undergo routine color vision checks.
 
Practice A LOT (until you know there is no chance of you not passing) and then take the test. You’ll never have to worry about it again...ever. And one of the best tips I ever heard was to get it into your head that “green” is simply a “muddy white”. Good luck...you won’t need it if you practice though.
 
James331 said:
I guess if you can prep them well, just not sure I’d take that risk, especially if there was a semi local AME with a color test that worked better.
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In 2007, I got a young guy through who is a tritanope. He is now a DPE in NW Indiana..... :)
 
Kritchlow said:
A tritanope.... I thought they went extinct 65 million years ago.
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You mean these guys... ? ;)

design-toscano-triceratops-life-size-dinosaur-ornament-07ffceafe1004d3e29a25d9a8cd9d096_original.jpg
 
I like the way Blue Man Group explains it....

Each of your eyes has over 3 million photoreceptors called Rods and Cones

These receptors convert light into electrochemical signals that travel through the optic nerve and into the brain

Here these signals trigger the neurological process scientists call, "the hellawhack shizzle that happens inside your brizzle."
​
 
G-force said:
FAA does not allow those.
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I'd love to hear the logic behind that. I think most rational people, on first thought, would consider them "corrective lenses" that would require only a notation on the medical to the effect that they're required.

Rich
 
FastEddieB said:
The latest “Skeptic’s Guide To The Universe” podcast discusses a study done on those.

Brief summary: they don’t work.

My daughter gave me a pair as a gift. They didn’t work and they got returned.
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Depends on the color blindness

If you take a flashlight red filter and hold it over one eye, look at a dot plate, you’ll see it will really pop the number.
 
FastEddieB said:
The latest “Skeptic’s Guide To The Universe” podcast discusses a study done on those.

Brief summary: they don’t work.

My daughter gave me a pair as a gift. They didn’t work and they got returned.
Click to expand...

For some, they probably don't work. For others, they probably do. That's true of any eyeglasses. My prescription works for me and for others with similar vision. That doesn't mean they work for everyone.

If a particular airman happens to be one of those for whom they do work, and that airman can pass the color-vision test while wearing them, it seems idiotic to me not to let them.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
For some, they probably don't work. For others, they probably do. That's true of any eyeglasses. My prescription works for me and for others with similar vision. That doesn't mean they work for everyone.

If a particular airman happens to be one of those for whom they do work, and that airman can pass the color-vision test while wearing them, it seems idiotic to me not to let them.

Rich
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It's possible that wearing the "funny color" glasses may let you pass the color vision test, but inhibit your day-to-day vision.
 
The trouble with phase shift glasses is that they must necessarily steal bandwith from one end of the spectrum and necessarily compress it at another point. And that effect has not been aeromedically characterized.
 
bbchien said:
The trouble with phase shift glasses is that they must necessarily steal bandwith from one end of the spectrum and necessarily compress it at another point. And that effect has not been aeromedically characterized.
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Ah, okay. That makes sense. Thanks.

Rich
 
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